[Dirac Delta Function]

German police have launched nationwide raids targeting ultra-conservative Islamic Salafists, suspected of posing a threat to public order.
Searches took place early on Thursday at Salafists' homes and meeting places in seven states, including Bavaria, Berlin and North Rhine-Westphalia.
A Salafist group called Millatu Ibrahim, based in the western city of Solingen, has been banned.
The raids follow clashes between police and some Salafists.
German authorities believe the Salafists want to create a Sunni Islamic caliphate opposed to Western democracy.
In one of the raids police removed items from the home of Salafist preacher Ibrahim Abu Nagie in Cologne.
The authorities have been monitoring Salafist campaigns to recruit supporters, including the distribution of free Korans.
There are believed to be about 4,000 active Salafists in Germany, the state-owned broadcaster ARD reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18439914
--------------------------------------------------


Good to see the the Germans face this problem head on.

Most Muslims in this country are not a threat to peace, the threat comes from Salafists. Abu Hamza, Abu Qatada, Omar Bakri Mohammed, and that clown Anjem Choudary are Salafists. The "behead those who insult Islam" people and the Wooten Basset protesters are Salafists. Finsbury Park Mosque is a Salafist Mosque.

Mainstream Sunni Muslims do themselves no favours by absorbing the burden of Salafist trouble making, and if they are too cowardly and passive to do anything about it, then so be it, but the distinction should be recognised by the rest of us.

Here's the thing, I firmly believe the government knows full well that the Salafists are the real problem in the Muslim community, but they are either don't want to open "that can of worms", or, the cynic might say, the Salafis are useful idiots, because they can be used to influence public opinion about Muslims as a whole.

[navarre]

Salafist is just another word for idiot. They have big voices, but they're always either too cowardly or stupid to pose any form of threat to public order. Leave them be.

[Annoying-Mouse]

Germans gonna German with their censoring of political ideologies they don't agree with. I don't think you understand salafism. Yes, salafis want to expand Islam and impose a Sharia over a western democracy. But, so do mainstream Sunni Islamic scholars. Sunni Islam supports colonialism. You only have to have a basic understanding of early Islamic history to see the various conquest taken by "the best of Muslims (sahih bukhari 57:2)". The beheading of those who insult Islam is also another Islamic ruling that mainstream Sunni scholars agree with. But, in both the case of colonialism and behading those who insult Islam only an Islamic state has the authority to do that and Salafis and mainstream Sunnis agree with that. They don't advocate vigilantism. It's akin to saying "fags are gonna burn in hell". Or to an apostate "if you were in Saudi Arabia you'd be killed right now".

There's as much as distinction between them and mainstream Sunni Islam as there is between Hanafis and Hanabalis.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Germans gonna German with their censoring of political ideologies they don't agree with. I don't think you understand salafism. Yes, salafis want to expand Islam and impose a Sharia over a western democracy. But, so do mainstream Sunni Islamic scholars. Sunni Islam supports colonialism. You only have to have a basic understanding of early Islamic history to see the various conquest taken by "the best of Muslims (sahih bukhari 57:2)". The beheading of those who insult Islam is also another Islamic ruling that mainstream Sunni scholars agree with. But, in both the case of colonialism and behading those who insult Islam only an Islamic state has the authority to do that and Salafis and mainstream Sunnis agree with that. They don't advocate vigilantism. It's akin to saying "fags are gonna burn in hell". Or to an apostate "if you were in Saudi Arabia you'd be killed right now".

There's as much as distinction between them and mainstream Sunni Islam as there is between Hanafis and Hanabalis.

The theological differences are really not very important. I do understand what Salafism is, and it's not the theology I have a problem with (any more than Sunni or Shia theology).

The problem is that, evidently, they seem highly prone to violence and fanaticism to a degree that mainstream sunnis are not.

German's are not Nazis any more, it's a very civilised country and I really doubt police are going round arresting people for their views. More likely they believe these guys pose an actual threat.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
The theological differences are really not very important. I do understand what Salafism is, and it's not the theology I have a problem with (any more than Sunni or Shia theology).

The problem is that, evidently, they seem highly prone to violence and fanaticism to a degree that mainstream sunnis are not.

German's are not Nazis any more, it's a very civilised country and I really doubt police are going round arresting people for their views. More likely they believe these guys pose an actual threat.

They still censor Nazism though. How exactly are they higher prone to violence? Has there been a statistical analysis of violence by Muslims and a breakdown of sects? Try to be scientific about this and don't let your personal opinions cloud rational judgement.

[Silkielemon]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
They still censor Nazism though. How exactly are they higher prone to violence? Has there been a statistical analysis of violence by Muslims and a breakdown of sects? Try to be scientific about this and don't let your personal opinions cloud rational judgement.

You can't really blame them for censoring Nazism.

Anyway, clearly they do think they pose a threat - whether that's just these individuals, their sect, or Islam is irrelevant. In fact, this is almost certainly only being discussed because they are Muslim. How dare police act in the way they think is right to protect the populace.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Silkielemon)
You can't really blame them for censoring Nazism.

Anyway, clearly they do think they pose a threat - whether that's just these individuals, their sect, or Islam is irrelevant. In fact, this is almost certainly only being discussed because they are Muslim. How dare police act in the way they think is right to protect the populace.

Yeah, Hitler thought the Jews posed a threat, Stalin thought churches posed a threat and countless of other examples of states viewing those who they disagree with as threats. Who gives a **** what the Germany police think? That's just argument from authority. Provide a logical basis for them thinking that way then we are able to judge whether it's just. Them merely thinking it's just tells us nothing.

[Silkielemon]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Yeah, Hitler thought the Jews posed a threat, Stalin thought churches posed a threat and countless of other examples of states viewing those who they disagree with as threats. Who gives a **** what the Germany police think? That's just argument from authority. Provide a logical basis for them thinking that way then we are able to judge whether it's just. Them merely thinking it's just tells us nothing.

This isn't a state-organised obliteration of a race. It's a crackdown on a certain community that is viewed as violent/ a threat to the peace. Obviously they found something according to that article, so there at least some justification, I'm sure more will be told in time.

And before you start arguing that it won't be long until they start cracking down on all Muslims - that's a load of *******s and you know it. Salafists are forceful and aggressive by creed.

[Brutal Honesty]

I bet that made you hard.

[Brutal Honesty]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
They still censor Nazism though. How exactly are they higher prone to violence? Has there been a statistical analysis of violence by Muslims and a breakdown of sects? Try to be scientific about this and don't let your personal opinions cloud rational judgement.

I know soldiers and policemen are far more likely to commit violent acts than the average person. In fact, there was a study done showing police officers in Norway were more likely to rape than immigrants, in response to claims all rapes were carried out by migrants.

[Florrick]

One of the ways to control is people is through fear. Seems the German government is handling that job very well.


Eitherway don't try to claim to be liberal democracy and doing things like this, it's hypocritical. Now, I know alot of people tend to bash Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries for stopping Christians especially from spreading their faith. Difference is they don't make a law and say you can go do it and then ban you when you do, do it.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
I bet that made you hard.

Hahahaha

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
I know soldiers and policemen are far more likely to commit violent acts than the average person. In fact, there was a study done showing police officers in Norway were more likely to rape than immigrants, in response to claims all rapes were carried out by migrants.

Got a link? Seems interesting.

(Original post by Silkielemon)
This isn't a state-organised obliteration of a race. It's a crackdown on a certain community that is viewed as violent/ a threat to the peace. Obviously they found something according to that article, so there at least some justification, I'm sure more will be told in time.

And before you start arguing that it won't be long until they start cracking down on all Muslims - that's a load of *******s and you know it. Salafists are forceful and aggressive by creed.

It's a state-organised obliteration of a community. Threat to peace is one of the most vaguest terms to be used. I agree with you though that it's bull**** to say that this is just a way for Germany to crack down on all Muslims.

[Haica]

Good for Germany!

[Perseveranze]

Heard about this, sadly it's getting tough for Muslims in Germany.

---

They had nothing against them, except that they believed in Allah, the All-Mighty, Worthy of all Praise! [85:8 Quran]

---

May Allah protect our bro/sis' from oppression.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Heard about this, sadly it's getting tough for Muslims in Germany.

---

They had nothing against them, except that they believed in Allah, the All-Mighty, Worthy of all Praise! [85:8 Quran]

---

May Allah protect our bro/sis' from oppression.

aww, poor Salafis, they're being oppressed just for believing in Allah...

[Krov]

Ach, jud- muslime!

[B-Man.]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
Abu Hamza, Abu Qatada, Omar Bakri Mohammed, and that clown Anjem Choudary are Salafists. The "behead those who insult Islam" people and the Wooten Basset protesters are Salafists. Finsbury Park Mosque is a Salafist Mosque.

Hezbollah are Shia, The 'lets issue a death sentence for writing a book' people are Shia. Why shouldn't the police go around kicking down the doors of Shia households too.

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)

The problem is that, evidently, they seem highly prone to violence and fanaticism to a degree that mainstream sunnis are not.

Bull****. I highly doubt that you're average Salafi is very different from their Sunni counterparts or even their Shia counterparts for that matter.

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
German's are not Nazis any more, it's a very civilised country and I really doubt police are going round arresting people for their views. More likely they believe these guys pose an actual threat.

The article that you posted appears to contradict this statement. Although, the article is vague I hope that they were targetting specific Salafis and are not on some kind of witch hunt that you are hoping for.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by B-Man.)
Hezbollah are Shia, The 'lets issue a death sentence for writing a book' people are Shia. Why shouldn't the police go around kicking down the doors of Shia households too.

If they believe there's a threat from Shia, they should!!!

Do the German police believe there is a threat from the Shia?

I was only giving BRITISH examples, if you wanna go international, babes, we can go international....

[navarre]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
If they believe there's a threat from Shia, they should!!!

Do the German police believe there is a threat from the Shia?

I was only giving BRITISH examples, if you wanna go international, babes, we can go international....

But what specific threat from Salafists does Germany face?

When you think of Salafists, who do you think of? Anjem Choudary perhaps, the failed shoe bomber, the moronic wannabes who killed themselves by driving into Glasgow airport, the idiotic failure who tried to explode a bomb on a plane on Christmas Day but couldn't get further than setting his own trousers on fire?

If there's one positive correlation that Salafists have, it's idiocy. Do you honestly believe these morons pose a threat to our collective security? They're nothing but bleating voices with empty heads. They are entitled to their idiotic opinions, because idiots are rarely a danger.

[MyselfEtAl]

(Original post by B-Man.)
Hezbollah are Shia, The 'lets issue a death sentence for writing a book' people are Shia. Why shouldn't the police go around kicking down the doors of Shia households too.

Hezbollah aren't trying to impose an Islamic state on the western world.