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Law in the UK and then to the US?

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    If you're planning to study law in the UK for an LLB degree or the equivalent and then move on to do your Masters in the US, what sort of extracurriculars do you need to do during college? Or, more importantly, do they even matter? Is grad school admission all about grades (i.e. getting honors) or does it consider other matters too?
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    (Original post by kavue)
    If you're planning to study law in the UK for an LLB degree or the equivalent and then move on to do your Masters in the US, what sort of extracurriculars do you need to do during college? Or, more importantly, do they even matter? Is grad school admission all about grades (i.e. getting honors) or does it consider other matters too?

    I don't wanna be a lawyer. However, I would like to get a law degree am interested in knowing this as well.

    LA is my second home, soooo that's why Im wondering where in teh US do you wanna do your masters and worK? plus, why do you wann ago to the us?
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    good luck getting a job lol
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    Some of my friends have gone on to do an LLM in the US and it seems that the admissions criteria are heavily focused on academic grades.

    With it being the States though, you will have to demonstrate significant involvement (preferably with a leadership role) in at least one or two extracurricular activities. Things like debating, mooting, Howard League or all pretty common on the legal side. I don't think it really matters though if your extracurricular are outside the law, e.g. sports teams.
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    (Original post by cool pilot dude)
    I don't wanna be a lawyer. However, I would like to get a law degree am interested in knowing this as well.

    LA is my second home, soooo that's why Im wondering where in teh US do you wanna do your masters and worK? plus, why do you wann ago to the us?
    Of course it would depend on what university I get accepted to, but I would love to work in New England, preferably Massachusetts or New York.

    I want to go to the US because I feel that I would have a better chance getting a job there than in the UK. I've been doing my college research, and found out that as a non-EU international I would have less opportunities and be more stretched financially as well. Of course that's perfectly natural, but when considering the fact that in the US I would be eligible for financial aid from the universities and work-study as well, I can't help but feel that my job prospects would be better in the US after graduation.

    I still want to study in the UK for undergrad, though, since the education is so great. I love participating in extracurricular activities and all, but academic-wise I felt that the intensive style here would be more rewarding. And more difficult, of course But that I'm prepared to deal with.

    I'm afraid of one thing, though. If I do my LLB in the UK and LLM in the US, then naturally I'd have to learn the US law from the very beginning. The only things that might be similar are the legal philosophy courses, it seems. In that case, would I be able to adequately catch up with the rest of the class who did their JD in America? Also, would it hinder me in any way from pursuing academia in law? The thing is, I'm not interested in practicing law either in the UK or the US. I want to become a law professor. Would studying my way be advantageous or disadvantageous in any way?
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    I don't understand why you believe that doing a law degree on the undergraduate level is more intense and more difficult than doing it on the postgraduate level in the US? On what do you base this hypothesis?

    Secondly, how do you know definitively that you will be eligible for financial aid over in the US? Also you do realise that an LLM from any reputable law school in the US will run you at least $40K (and that is just tuition) and another $15-20K in expenses. Now if we are talking any of the big 14 law schools then increase the tuition fee by another 20-25%

    In regards to better job prospects, I suggest you take a look at this website for a little bit of guidance: www.abovethelaw.com
    Obviously take their opinions with a grain of salt, but when you peruse the site and othe rsimilar sites, i think you will see that the picture is far less than rosy for NQ's across the pond, plus you are crippled with an enormous amount of debt....

    I could go on, but I will be interested in your reply...

    Regards
    (Original post by kavue)
    Of course it would depend on what university I get accepted to, but I would love to work in New England, preferably Massachusetts or New York.

    I want to go to the US because I feel that I would have a better chance getting a job there than in the UK. I've been doing my college research, and found out that as a non-EU international I would have less opportunities and be more stretched financially as well. Of course that's perfectly natural, but when considering the fact that in the US I would be eligible for financial aid from the universities and work-study as well, I can't help but feel that my job prospects would be better in the US after graduation.

    I still want to study in the UK for undergrad, though, since the education is so great. I love participating in extracurricular activities and all, but academic-wise I felt that the intensive style here would be more rewarding. And more difficult, of course But that I'm prepared to deal with.

    I'm afraid of one thing, though. If I do my LLB in the UK and LLM in the US, then naturally I'd have to learn the US law from the very beginning. The only things that might be similar are the legal philosophy courses, it seems. In that case, would I be able to adequately catch up with the rest of the class who did their JD in America? Also, would it hinder me in any way from pursuing academia in law? The thing is, I'm not interested in practicing law either in the UK or the US. I want to become a law professor. Would studying my way be advantageous or disadvantageous in any way?
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    (Original post by vnupe)
    I don't understand why you believe that doing a law degree on the undergraduate level is more intense and more difficult than doing it on the postgraduate level in the US? On what do you base this hypothesis?
    I'm sorry if it seemed that way; what I meant was that the course-focused undergrad in the UK seemed more intense than the looser undergrad in the US. I wasn't comparing UK undergrad with US postgrad here. I guess I left out a few important points there, but what I was trying to say was that since UK undergrad is highly academic and career oriented, whereas US undergrad is more focused on a broad liberal arts education, I would prefer studying at UK for undergrad. Another thing I should've mentioned is that studying in the UK would save me the four years I would have had to spend on undergrad if I studied in the US.

    (Original post by vnupe)
    Secondly, how do you know definitively that you will be eligible for financial aid over in the US? Also you do realise that an LLM from any reputable law school in the US will run you at least $40K (and that is just tuition) and another $15-20K in expenses. Now if we are talking any of the big 14 law schools then increase the tuition fee by another 20-25%
    Again, I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was saying that I would be eligible for FA in the US for undergrad, not for postgrad. I understand that it is probably very difficult to get FA for law school in the US (I'm not sure on this point; I didn't research this yet). But for undergrad at least I would be eligible for FA, whether on a need-blind or need-sensitive basis admission. For UK, though, I know that I will not be eligible for any FA whatsoever.

    (Original post by vnupe)
    In regards to better job prospects, I suggest you take a look at this website for a little bit of guidance: www.abovethelaw.com
    Obviously take their opinions with a grain of salt, but when you peruse the site and othe rsimilar sites, i think you will see that the picture is far less than rosy for NQ's across the pond, plus you are crippled with an enormous amount of debt....
    I understand that the job prospect isn't that rosy anywhere for the time being. But from some articles I've been reading, I got the impression that the UK higher education job market is not particularly open to foreigners (of course, the articles may be wrong as well). I have to admit, I'm really not knowledgeable on this subject. Do you know something, by any chance?
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    (Original post by kavue)
    I'm sorry if it seemed that way; what I meant was that the course-focused undergrad in the UK seemed more intense than the looser undergrad in the US. I wasn't comparing UK undergrad with US postgrad here. I guess I left out a few important points there, but what I was trying to say was that since UK undergrad is highly academic and career oriented, whereas US undergrad is more focused on a broad liberal arts education, I would prefer studying at UK for undergrad. Another thing I should've mentioned is that studying in the UK would save me the four years I would have had to spend on undergrad if I studied in the US.



    Again, I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was saying that I would be eligible for FA in the US for undergrad, not for postgrad. I understand that it is probably very difficult to get FA for law school in the US (I'm not sure on this point; I didn't research this yet). But for undergrad at least I would be eligible for FA, whether on a need-blind or need-sensitive basis admission. For UK, though, I know that I will not be eligible for any FA whatsoever.



    I understand that the job prospect isn't that rosy anywhere for the time being. But from some articles I've been reading, I got the impression that the UK higher education job market is not particularly open to foreigners (of course, the articles may be wrong as well). I have to admit, I'm really not knowledgeable on this subject. Do you know something, by any chance?
    If you're not a US citizen there are literally a handful of Need Blind instiutions and they are all massively competitive (Harvard, Yale, Williams, Dartmouth and maybe Princeton).

    If your concern is getting a job and visa then globe hopping as a student surely isn't the best idea? If you stay in the UK for your LLB, LLM/BCL and PhD you could try to get citizenship via naturalisation as you'll have been here well over 5 years whereas an LLM in the US puts a massive gap right in the middle of that and only leaves you with 120 days in total permitted outside of the country for the other 4 years. 8 years is a good period of time to prove commitment to the UK in and I'm not sure about academia being closed to outsiders, plenty of my lecturers aren't British nationals.

    Also, absolutely paramount would be finding a British national and persuading them to put a ring on it
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    (Original post by roh)
    If you're not a US citizen there are literally a handful of Need Blind instiutions and they are all massively competitive (Harvard, Yale, Williams, Dartmouth and maybe Princeton).
    Yeah, I know that the admissions are hell. But besides the six need-blind institutions (HYP, MIT, Dartmouth, Amherst) I could also apply to a need-sensitive school for FA and just go wherever I get in with FA. Guess I'll find out which ones (whether need-blind or sensitive) next year when I get my admissions results.... or preferably this December if possible It's really all undecided for now. Since I'm applying to both US and UK colleges, I'll have to wait and see what happens. It depends on so many things, though. Whether what I'm thinking about (LLB in the UK then LLM in the US) is viable will be a huge deciding factor, though.

    (Original post by roh)
    If your concern is getting a job and visa then globe hopping as a student surely isn't the best idea? If you stay in the UK for your LLB, LLM/BCL and PhD you could try to get citizenship via naturalisation as you'll have been here well over 5 years whereas an LLM in the US puts a massive gap right in the middle of that and only leaves you with 120 days in total permitted outside of the country for the other 4 years. 8 years is a good period of time to prove commitment to the UK in and I'm not sure about academia being closed to outsiders, plenty of my lecturers aren't British nationals.
    I guess that's true. I'll have to do more research, I guess. I hope I come up with something more definite on how open British academia is; it may be that I just gave up too early after a couple of negative feedback.

    (Original post by roh)
    Also, absolutely paramount would be finding a British national and persuading them to put a ring on it
    Haha, true, but might be more difficult :P
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    (Original post by kavue)
    Yeah, I know that the admissions are hell. But besides the six need-blind institutions (HYP, MIT, Dartmouth, Amherst) I could also apply to a need-sensitive school for FA and just go wherever I get in with FA. Guess I'll find out which ones (whether need-blind or sensitive) next year when I get my admissions results.... or preferably this December if possible It's really all undecided for now. Since I'm applying to both US and UK colleges, I'll have to wait and see what happens. It depends on so many things, though. Whether what I'm thinking about (LLB in the UK then LLM in the US) is viable will be a huge deciding factor, though.


    I guess that's true. I'll have to do more research, I guess. I hope I come up with something more definite on how open British academia is; it may be that I just gave up too early after a couple of negative feedback.


    Haha, true, but might be more difficult :P
    LLB then LLM is doable, plenty of top barristers seem to have a Fulbright scholarship if you look at Chambers websites and I guess that plenty of Fulbright also go on to academia too. However, a lot of these will have UK citizenship so didn't have the concern about stacking up time/reapplying for a visa that you might.

    Possibly, I'd say just do what we all do when looking to see what unis solicitors or barristers went to and trawl websites to get an idea, and you could always try emailing someone, dunno if universities have a HR dept. This is LSE's and all unis have something similar.


    True, but uni's as good a chance as anyone gets with all those people the same age
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    There is no undergraduate degree for law in the US, the degree is only offered on the postgrad level. Secondly, most undergraduate degrees in the US are rigourously academic, yes there is that liberal arts component, but the objective is to give the student a welrounded grounding in various courses, usually in his first or freshman year. After completing this grounding, the student then spends the next two or three years specialising in his chosen field of study.
    Unlike at UK institutions, students have classes in each subject 2 -3 times a week, whereas over here it is once a week plus tutorial. Therefore there is no lack of academic rigour but perhaps a more condensed style.
    Also what most UK unis cover in a year, depending on the type of class and the amount of class time, the US unis may cover in a semester (half a year).
    IMHO neither is better or more rigourous, they are just different. In the US there seems to be a continuous assesment style, while in the UK, there is the one off type of assessment, at the end of the year... you only get one bite of the apple.
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    roh, Thanks for all the advice You really gave me some ideas I hadn't thought about. I'll look into those sites, plus the visa problem.

    vnupe, Again I think you misunderstood my intention. I wasn't trying to degrade US universities or anything, I think they're wonderful, it's just that I feel that the academic atmosphere of UK universities would fit me better than that of US universities. I understand that US universities are extremely rigorous as well, and train their students well. It was just that the prospect of getting to study my desired major in undergrad right away seemed more appealing than waiting four years to decide, then going to grad school. I guess it's really just a matter of perspective. Some prefer the US, others the UK. I just happen to be in the latter group. I'm sorry if I was misleading in any way.
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    No need to apologize at all, and I dont see it as a misrepresentation as such, but more as a clarification. I understand and respect your desire to get into your chosen field quicker... I know for me that would not have been a wise choice, as I had immaturity issues to deal with... in any respect good luck on your choice of uni and future endeavours...

    (Original post by kavue)
    roh, Thanks for all the advice You really gave me some ideas I hadn't thought about. I'll look into those sites, plus the visa problem.

    vnupe, Again I think you misunderstood my intention. I wasn't trying to degrade US universities or anything, I think they're wonderful, it's just that I feel that the academic atmosphere of UK universities would fit me better than that of US universities. I understand that US universities are extremely rigorous as well, and train their students well. It was just that the prospect of getting to study my desired major in undergrad right away seemed more appealing than waiting four years to decide, then going to grad school. I guess it's really just a matter of perspective. Some prefer the US, others the UK. I just happen to be in the latter group. I'm sorry if I was misleading in any way.
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    (Original post by kavue)
    roh, Thanks for all the advice You really gave me some ideas I hadn't thought about. I'll look into those sites, plus the visa problem.

    vnupe, Again I think you misunderstood my intention. I wasn't trying to degrade US universities or anything, I think they're wonderful, it's just that I feel that the academic atmosphere of UK universities would fit me better than that of US universities. I understand that US universities are extremely rigorous as well, and train their students well. It was just that the prospect of getting to study my desired major in undergrad right away seemed more appealing than waiting four years to decide, then going to grad school. I guess it's really just a matter of perspective. Some prefer the US, others the UK. I just happen to be in the latter group. I'm sorry if I was misleading in any way.
    It's alright, though check about Visas as they all have different conditions attached to them and they may state that it doesn't count towards your 5 years or only 2 years worth or whatever, and this may change as you go from visa to visa through LLB>LLM>PhD. Still 7/8 years straight here will look better than 3 then America then back for another 3/4 if you apply for a work visa.

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