[UnderPost]

(Original post by rmpr97)
Yes please do vote yes and gain your sweet independence.

We'll just wait see how long the 'good times' of that last eh?

I have a real problem with the unionists argument. The reality of the matter is that Scotland has been part of the Union for 300 years. It still has some of the poorest and most unhealthy areas in all of Europe.

So really, what I think is that you haven't done that well from being in the Union... may as well try a different route (you can't do any worse!).

If you DO decide to go then good luck!

And Rmpr97 - it seems that you WANT Scotland to fail if they become independent? to me that's rather childish.

[L i b]

(Original post by UnderPost)
I have a real problem with the unionists argument. The reality of the matter is that Scotland has been part of the Union for 300 years. It still has some of the poorest and most unhealthy areas in all of Europe.

So really, what I think is that you haven't done that well from being in the Union... may as well try a different route (you can't do any worse!).

We can't do any worse? You really think Scotland can't be any worse than it is?

Utter madness.

And I'll add 'Making Glaswegians stop liking chips, fags and booze' to the list of absurd problems that Scottish independence will apparently be a panacea for. In reality, the poverty that Scotland has is a poverty of ambition, and it's caused by the ridiculous left-wing logic which has dominated here - not just in government, but across civic Scotland. The SNP are part of that problem, not a solution to it.

(Original post by travoot)
No one in this thread is disagreeing with the right to have a referendum.

I completely echo Psyk on this one and as such I'm certainly disagreeing with it.

[Sheep]

I love how Scotland thinks it's even a country

I bet nobody even knows what Scotland is outside UK lol

I can't really see how independence will be good for anyone but meh it will fail horribly if it ever actually happens

[rmpr97]

(Original post by UnderPost)
I have a real problem with the unionists argument. The reality of the matter is that Scotland has been part of the Union for 300 years. It still has some of the poorest and most unhealthy areas in all of Europe.

So really, what I think is that you haven't done that well from being in the Union... may as well try a different route (you can't do any worse!).

If you DO decide to go then good luck!

And Rmpr97 - it seems that you WANT Scotland to fail if they become independent? to me that's rather childish.

It's not really a want, its that I find Mr.Salmond to be a tit and want to see him fall on his flat ass, especially when he said he wouldn't inherit any of the UK's collective deficit.

[rmpr97]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
Then you should probably change your flag then shouldn't you?

Well no because my grandparents are Italian, my passport is and it says Italian on my passport and I identify with that.

[UnderPost]

(Original post by L i b)
....and it's caused by the ridiculous left-wing logic which has dominated here - not just in government, but across civic Scotland. The SNP are part of that problem, not a solution to it.

If you think that politicians in Scotland can help lower poverty under the current settlement then you are living on another planet. The biggest economic leavers rest in Westminster, it is they that have the power to lower poverty.

[UnderPost]

(Original post by rmpr97)
It's not really a want, its that I find Mr.Salmond to be a tit and want to see him fall on his flat ass, especially when he said he wouldn't inherit any of the UK's collective deficit.

I certainly hope that when you vote in the Referendum you do not consider Salmond (whether you are a no/yes voter). You need to vote what you think is best for Scotland. This is a big decision, much bigger than Salmond - and after all he won't be a long forever.

I believe Salmond has said that he would take 'Scotland's share' of the UK's national debt. Just like how Scotland will take its share of the UK's national assets. I assume it will be around the 7% mark.

[Nick100]

(Original post by UnderPost)
I certainly hope that when you vote in the Referendum you do not consider Salmond (whether you are a no/yes voter). You need to vote what you think is best for Scotland. This is a big decision, much bigger than Salmond - and after all he won't be a long forever.

But the politicians and their ideologies are the only important factors to consider; an independent Scotland isn't inherently better than Scotland as part of the UK. The only reason I would want Scottish independence is if I thought an independent Scottish government would have a better ideology than the UK government; nationalism for the sake of nationalism is utterly pointless.

[UnderPost]

(Original post by Nick100)
But the politicians and their ideologies are the only important factors to consider; an independent Scotland isn't inherently better than Scotland as part of the UK. The only reason I would want Scottish independence is if I thought an independent Scottish government would have a better ideology than the UK government; nationalism for the sake of nationalism is utterly pointless.

I agree- politicians (or rather parties) in general are a factor. You look at Scottish Labour and UK Labour- and the Scots are far more left wing. You look at the Scottish Cons and the UK cons, and again the Scots are closer to the centre. The fact of the matter is that any future government in an independent Scotland will be to the left of ANY UK party. Just look at the two main parties in Ireland. FG is seen as the 'conservative' party- however it is less right wing than UK Labour!.

So I accept that. If you like centre style politics, with the odd turn to the left then independence is for you.

My argument is that you shouldn't vote Yes just because you like Salmond, or vote just because you don't like Salmond.

[rmpr97]

(Original post by UnderPost)
I certainly hope that when you vote in the Referendum you do not consider Salmond (whether you are a no/yes voter). You need to vote what you think is best for Scotland. This is a big decision, much bigger than Salmond - and after all he won't be a long forever.

I believe Salmond has said that he would take 'Scotland's share' of the UK's national debt. Just like how Scotland will take its share of the UK's national assets. I assume it will be around the 7% mark.

No he didn't. And why would I vote, I'm underaged plus is it not only open to Scottish nationals?

Also the Scottish seem a bit greedy. Yes I know a big part of the argument is money but what about the legislative freedom, the national pride? Wasn't there a poll that said a large amount of Scottish people would vote no if they lost money?

[Psyk]

(Original post by rmpr97)
No he didn't. And why would I vote, I'm underaged plus is it not only open to Scottish nationals?

No such thing as a Scottish national. At least not in any legal sense. It's open to British (and presumably Irish) citizens living in Scotland.

[rmpr97]

(Original post by Psyk)
No such thing as a Scottish national. At least not in any legal sense. It's open to British (and presumably Irish) citizens living in Scotland.

Well I don't live in Scotland.

[Psyk]

(Original post by rmpr97)
Well I don't live in Scotland.

Well there's still time to move there if you want to vote

[L i b]

(Original post by UnderPost)
If you think that politicians in Scotland can help lower poverty under the current settlement then you are living on another planet. The biggest economic leavers rest in Westminster, it is they that have the power to lower poverty.

They could try actually making a difference to education, which is probably one of the biggest parts of social mobility. Scottish state schools are, by and large, becoming quite depressing places. Instead we get the Curriculum for Excellence: administratively burdensome and about as much use as rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

The left-wing idea of lowering poverty simply involves doling out cash. That is not, however, the solution.