[GStevens]

(Original post by I.LoveSyria.Aleppo)
I'm muslim, I've been really picky about what I believe in, I don't usually accept everything anyone tells me. In the past and now I research everything, I've read about most other religious, mostly the main ones really, judaism, christianity, buddhism, sikhism etc

GT-S5830

In all your research what was the evidence that lead you to believe? As an atheist I am open to new evidence, if you have found some I would be very interested in learning about it.

[GStevens]

(Original post by dina12)
Well that was my prospect and sorry people isnt converting because "they are having a relationship with a Muslim and perhaps wish to marry." and this isnt the fact. Just have a look at this video where More than 1500 People in Germany saying the Shahada in one day !The Shahada is the Muslim declaration!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZqQ91JM2Lo. They convert because they find the truth by going into detail.

I appreciate that English isn't your first language (either that or you are another victim of our state school system) but you really need to read my post properly. I gave relationship with a Muslim as one reason, not the only reason or even the main reason. (although a bit more research suggests that apart from forced or default conversion it is one of the main reasons)

Could you tell me why a person would convert from one religion to another? Surely it can't be about better evidence for one god over another.

I'm afraid a youtube video of people converting isn't evidence of very much, does it give details of why those people were converting? Were they actually converting or were they existing Muslims at a rally? Were they former East Germans who had been denied faith just reverting? Who was the bloke with the muscles in the blue tee shirt, looked like a BNP member but that seems unlikely.

I'm pretty sure that the Xtians can find mass conversions too. In fact it was very common a few years ago to find flocks gathering around charismatic televangelists in the US all pledging their lives to the Xtian god. Not new, not evidence.

It's quite hard to find reliable data re conversions, there seems to have been little research since Starbuck. Most individuals who make statements will say that Islam/Xtianity/Judaism/Janism etc were just the truest, kindest, nicest etc. I suspect that the internet commentators might be a teensy bit self selecting. I found some, mostly various religious fan sites. The only non partisan stuff I found was discussing the problems of conversion, for example when a parent converts and this by default changes the religion of the partner and offspring. Funny how each religion looks favourably on converts to their religion but has a rather different view on apostasy.

I would be interested not so much in the converts from other religions, let's face it one world view based on an ancient mythology is just like another, they vary only in the detail, like which day it's ok to eat pork or wear mixed fibres, as in converts from no religion.

[I.LoveSyria.Aleppo]

(Original post by GStevens)
In all your research what was the evidence that lead you to believe? As an atheist I am open to new evidence, if you have found some I would be very interested in learning about it.

Ok this may sound really cheesy, but when I read the quran I feel different, I feel a weird sense of relaxation. I feel that feeling of faith, once you feel it you'll love it. It's weird to say, but also I went through a time where I read the translation and explanation of every verse I read from the quran. it made more sense, some stuff I read affirmed my belief.

I think what plays a big role in belief, is when I read islamic stories from the quran and then actually saw the effect it left, for future generations to learn from.

For example, theres a story about 3 brothers that owned a garden, their father used to always feed the poor from it's fruits. When he died they decided not to continue that and left the poor people hungry. Anyway in the quran it says, and then as a punishment, god sent a fire to burn the garden.

And til this day, the garden is still there, it looks like volcanic cold lava all over, and the gardens nearby aren't effected.

Another example I is the story of pharaoh and moses, Got wanted to punish pharaoh for claiming that he was God, so in the quran God warns pharaoh that he will keep him for generations to come, do that they will learn a lesson from him. And in deed his body is still put on display in museums.

This is what helps me believe in God, seeing what the quran says in real life.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-S5830

[kat.girl]

Yes. I have considered my beliefs and I kept with my religion.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[K the Failure]

I am very intrigued by the plethora of posts expressing a very near-sighted view of morality.

To the theists I ask you:

- Why do you not kill other people?

- If you see a physically attractive member of the opposite sex on the street, why do you not rape them?

That is, if you happen to not be a serial murderer/rapist.

[silentlife]

One of those threads where you can easily be plussed or negged... It is very difficult to argue something that is built upon belief... That is all I can say.

[GStevens]

(Original post by I.LoveSyria.Aleppo)
Ok this may sound really cheesy, but when I read the quran I feel different, I feel a weird sense of relaxation. I feel that feeling of faith, once you feel it you'll love it. It's weird to say, but also I went through a time where I read the translation and explanation of every verse I read from the quran. it made more sense, some stuff I read affirmed my belief.

Not cheesy but also not evidence of anything.

Earlier you said: 'I'm muslim, I've been really picky about what I believe in, I don't usually accept everything anyone tells me. In the past and now I research everything, I've read about most other religious, mostly the main ones really, judaism, christianity, buddhism, sikhism etc '

This lead me to believe that you had come by your faith after weighing the evidence. It seems this is not the case, you just read lots of stuff to reinforce an existing faith, that is very different.

For example, theres a story about 3 brothers that owned a garden, their father used to always feed the poor from it's fruits. When he died they decided not to continue that and left the poor people hungry. Anyway in the quran it says, and then as a punishment, god sent a fire to burn the garden.

And til this day, the garden is still there, it looks like volcanic cold lava all over, and the gardens nearby aren't effected.


Another example I is the story of pharaoh and moses, Got wanted to punish pharaoh for claiming that he was God, so in the quran God warns pharaoh that he will keep him for generations to come, do that they will learn a lesson from him. And in deed his body is still put on display in museums.

This is what helps me believe in God, seeing what the quran says in real life.

This is the usual standard of evidence. It would be insufficient without an existing faith. Both are good examples of the really poor evidence that believers base their belief on. They are good evidence that your claim 'I've been really picky about what I believe in, I don't usually accept everything anyone tells me.' is false. The examples you give are very, very weak, one a story fitted to an existing event, the other an event fitted to a story or prophecy.

It seems that the answer to the op's question is 'no', religious people do not strongly consider their faith. If they did then they would be embarassed by the absurdly weak evidence that they had believed.

[GStevens]

(Original post by Indian_Princess)
i'm a Muslim, n when i was younger it hit me one day that maybe my religion wasn't the true one and that all my family could be wrong and i'm just being pulled into it.. but then as i grew up and looked more into my religion and understood it more, i had no worries

So all you questioned was whether yours was 'The One True Religion', you didn't question belief in the supernatural as a whole.

I am fast beginning to understand that when religious people say they have 'investigated' their religion they don't mean in the same way that normal people do. All they seem to do is have another read of whichever holy book they are already familiar with and reinforce an existing belief.

Have any religious people ever applied the same level of reasoning and evidence requirements to their religion that they would to existence of unicorns or do they always make a special allowance?

[manchesterunited15]

(Original post by Pixie A)
How have i crossed a line? You and I both agree that currently science hasn't explained everything. Science can't explain how the atoms that caused the big bang got there, or how amino acids turned into life (no-one has been able to recreate it for example the Miller Urey experiment couldn't even explain in). So the only other logical thing is God, I work by logic and after weighing up the other options God is only logical thing that explains everything.

Hang on, so because science has only explained 90% of the universe and how it works and not 100% that means that the only logical explanation is that some guy magically made it? Okay.

[harufi]

My Mum is strongly Christian, whilst my Dad has always been (and will always be an Atheist).
I used to get took to chruch with my Mum all the time up until I was about 7, and went to a Christian primary school.
I always felt uncomfortable with it, I didn't understand how something like God could exist.
I tried reading a children's Bible when I was younger to understand it more, but it never made sense to me.

I do believe in reincarnation, but I think thats more to do with my fear of nothingness after death.

[GStevens]

(Original post by harufi)
I do believe in reincarnation, but I think thats more to do with my fear of nothingness after death.

That's very honest and is one of the main reasons that religion and belief in the supernatural still exists.

The three main reasons are where did we come from, why are we here, where do we go.

Most people don't actually worry too much about the first two but the question of death and non existence scares a lot of people. The invention of an afterlife helps to calm those fears.

Religion is all about calming fears, it is like reassuring children that the bogey men in the wardrobe can't get them because of their magic penguin.

Apart from several thousand people who all think they are Napolean or Marie Antoinette reincarnated, what convinces you that reincarnation is real?

[Indian_Princess]

(Original post by GStevens)
So all you questioned was whether yours was 'The One True Religion', you didn't question belief in the supernatural as a whole.

I am fast beginning to understand that when religious people say they have 'investigated' their religion they don't mean in the same way that normal people do. All they seem to do is have another read of whichever holy book they are already familiar with and reinforce an existing belief.

Have any religious people ever applied the same level of reasoning and evidence requirements to their religion that they would to existence of unicorns or do they always make a special allowance?

i always believed in God, regardless of what i was taught, i always had strong faith and belief in a higher being even as a small child. so there was no doubt in my mind that there was a God, i just had to make sure i was following the correct religion.

[navarre]

(Original post by Indian_Princess)
i always believed in God, regardless of what i was taught, i always had strong faith and belief in a higher being even as a small child. so there was no doubt in my mind that there was a God, i just had to make sure i was following the correct religion.

But the point being made here is evidence. All you did was read other holy books were a pre-condition that they should reaffirm your prior religious beliefs- you just about admitted that.

If you read the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita whilst simultaneously holding that Islam is true, guess what? You're going to deliberately read and take into account the parts of those books that reaffirm your own religious views, and disregard everything else as ridiculous, contradictory or having (ironically) not enough evidence.

In short, what you did was not try and make sure you were following the correct religion, but read other holy texts in an attempt to find flaws and attempt to confirm the truth of your own religion. Which isn't looking at other religions at all, is it?

[concubine]

(Original post by I.LoveSyria.Aleppo)
Ok this may sound really cheesy, but when I read the quran I feel different, I feel a weird sense of relaxation. I feel that feeling of faith, once you feel it you'll love it.

Whenever religious people say things along the lines of this it comes across as so condescending and 'you're not capable of what I am', like what they experience is somehow superior to the feelings non believers can have appreciating other things.

[GStevens]

That's why I can't be an atheist. People have to go somewhere. If energy can't be created or destroyed, they have to be around in some form. They have to know their children and grandchildren and loved ones have conflicting feelings about their deaths. They have to still be here. Otherwise, what is the point?

The above, honestly felt and from a person in a very sad situation, is the type of thinking that is prevalent among the religious as we have seen on this and other threads.

People have to go somewhere. Well, no, not really. Why do they?
If energy can't be created or destroyed, then they have to be around somewhere. That is a non sequitur, while the first statement may be, true energy can be changed. There is no reason at all that the 'person' would still be around. And even if the energy is still around it would not necessarily be in a form that would be the 'person'.
They have to know their children and grandchildren and loved ones have conflicting feelings about their deaths. No they don't, they don't have to know anything.
They have to still be here. Sorry, no. They might be but they don't have to be.
Otherwise, what is the point? So there we have it, the need for meaning, for a purpose.

A heartfelt 'justification' for being a theist that has absolutely no foundation in logic or evidence, which takes a set of statements which are almost totally wishful thinking, how they want things to be rather than how things are, and draws a conclusion that is jus not supported in any way by the statements. It also relies on a belief in the continuing 'person', the 'soul', and seeks to justify that too.

This woolly, misrepresenting, wishful thinking is at the bottom of almost every theist argument. All driven by the fear. Statements of how they would like things to be and incredible leaps of 'logic' from unsupporting and often unrelated statements to a wierd conclusion. It's no wonder people who don't share their primitive beliefs find it hard not to be contemptuous of them.

[hatwoman]

(Original post by james22)
I was a Christian when I was younger and I did critically assess my beliefs. I just aksed myself why I believed the stuff I was being told and couldn't come up with a better reason than because my parents/the bible says so. That was when I became an athiest.

Exactly the same story for me.

[Perseveranze]

Islam is just one of those religions that, the more you learn about it (with a exploratory mindset) the more you believe/become stronger in faith.

And any Muslim that atleast reads the Qur'an once, would not miss these;

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"Do not accept anything that you have no knowledge of. Surely the hearing, the sight and the mind you are responsible for." (Quran, 17:36)

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"Say, "Are the ones who know equal to the ones who do not know?" Surely only the ones endowed with intellects would remind themselves." (Qur'an 39:9)

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When it is said to them: "Follow what God hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance? (Qur'an 2:170)

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Nay! they say: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps." (Qur'an 43:22)

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"Nay, they reject that of which they have no comprehensive knowledge, and whose interpretation as yet has not come up to them." (Qur'an 10:39)

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And countless other verses.

Then there is the aspect of "blind taqlid" (imitation) of scholars. That's why the four great classical scholars state;

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Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.”

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Maalik said: “I am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.”

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Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence, then this is my view.”

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Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

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(May Allah be pleased with all of the above)

Then there's the whole issue of "believing within your heart", which is extremely important in Islam.

I can confidently say, Islam is a religion that fully supports people to explore it and to find within their hearts, true belief for it.

As Allah(swt) says in the Qur'an;

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"... Truth is clear from error..." (Qur'an 2:256)

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[avhhs]

I'm a Muslim. A few months ago I started going through a tough time. I realised God wasn't helping me, and a friend of mine who is an Atheist and has had a much better life than me. I stopped praying. Has anything got worse? Nope. In fact they got slightly better.

My dad doesn't get it though. He thinks that I've stopped just because someone told me to and I've blindly followed them. He really hares me because of it. It was him who used Islam to justify cultural differences. To be frank, he really hates the culture over here and because of that never let me socialise with anyone. That only has made me determined to rebel

[SaharaDesert]

(Original post by avhhs)
I'm a Muslim. A few months ago I started going through a tough time. I realised God wasn't helping me, and a friend of mine who is an Atheist and has had a much better life than me. I stopped praying. Has anything got worse? Nope. In fact they got slightly better.

I have a Hindu friend who seemingly appears to have a better life than me.
I think I am going to be a Hindu.

[dina12]

(Original post by zohaib029)
Don't Christians belI've he's the son of god though

Samsung > Apple

Christian say Jesus is the God, the holy spirit and the son according to their bible.