[Azaro]

of course they dont. thats the whole idea of religion, making the mass stupidmand disallowing things like critical thinking

[dina12]

"Could you tell me why a person would convert from one religion to another?" "Surely it can't be about better evidence for one god over another."

People convert because Islam is the religion of peace and this is why people get attracted to it. So what do I mean by “Islam is the religion of peace”. What I mean is that if you read the Quran (the guide to the universe) would tell you everything you need to know about life. It’s all written in the Quran and Allah has clearly stated everything that we need to know about this universe.

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by dina12)
"Could you tell me why a person would convert from one religion to another?" "Surely it can't be about better evidence for one god over another."

People convert because Islam is the religion of peace and this is why people get attracted to it. So what do I mean by “Islam is the religion of peace”. What I mean is that if you read the Quran (the guide to the universe) would tell you everything you need to know about life. It’s all written in the Quran and Allah has clearly stated everything that we need to know about this universe.

Please tell me about the Qu'ran's knowledge about apoptosis.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Hypocrism)
Please tell me about the Qu'ran's knowledge about apoptosis.

I don't usually defend Islam but in this aspect I must say, I don't think the word "apoptosis" existed in those times

[NB_ide]

(Original post by Nacho King)
There is nothing to lose, only something to gain.

What would they gain?

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by .eXe)
I don't usually defend Islam but in this aspect I must say, I don't think the word "apoptosis" existed in those times

So the Qu'ran doesn't state "everything that we need to know about this universe" or "everything you need to know about life", does it?

[.eXe]

(Original post by Hypocrism)
So the Qu'ran doesn't state "everything that we need to know about this universe" or "everything you need to know about life", does it?

Guess not.

[Nacho King]

(Original post by NB_ide)
What would they gain?

Freedom from an oppressive belief system.

[shenzys]

Yes, I do strongly consider my faith (The title of this thread is a bit patronising isn't it). I was born as a muslim, and only started to question things when I was a teenager. Thankfully the Quran answered all of my questions

And when I read comments from athiests (sometimes rudely) bashing theists, I remember:

''And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.'' (2:13)

''Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.'' (2:6)

And for those in doubt, God has challenged you:

''And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.'' (2:23)

Oh and when some people pick parts out of the Quran and twist the meanings to try to find reasons not to follow the religion, God has said:

''It is God who has revealed the Book to you in which some verses are clear statements (which accept no interpretation) and these are the fundamental ideas of the Book, while other verses may have several possibilities. Those whose hearts are perverse, follow the unclear statements in pursuit of their own mischievous goals by interpreting them in a way that will suit their own purpose. No one knows its true interpretations except God and those who have a firm grounding in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All its verses are from our Lord." No one can grasp this fact except the people of reason.'' (3:7)

And also, I think someone adressed this above but have respect for everyone's choices- even if they are different from yours. It's not nice to ridicule someone's belief, and as God says in the Quran,

''There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion'' (2:256)

[cool pilot dude]

(Original post by Nacho King)
It is my belief that most religious people are still believers because they have never questioned their beliefs.

Most people only get a one sided opinion, what the Bible/Qu'ran etc. says, what their priest tells them, peer pressure from others. We can see most people don't question their beliefs because a large percentage of people are the same religion as they were born into and what their parents were and have never looked at any others.

Why not critically assess your religion, use logic and common sense to see if stories sound plausable (maybe start with Noah's Ark), watch youtube videos from athiests and see what they have to say etc.

There is nothing to lose, only something to gain. Why dedicate your whole life to something without even questioning it? Thats dumb.

So religious believers, have you ever strongly researched and evaluated your faith? I don't mean go through the Bible with a Bible guide, I mean look at what it says critically and without your emotional head on and see if it still sounds true.

I've thought of a good example, the Tower of Babel is in the book of Genesis, where apparently people attempted to build a tower to reach heaven and God destroyed it as it was a threat to him and then scattered everyone around the world and gave them different languages so they wouldn't be able to build another tower.

A logical person would say that this story is never going to be real because humans would never be able to build a tower to reach heaven because:
a) they wouldn't have the metal structures etc. to build a stable tower miles high, think of skyscrappers today,
b) planes fly 30,000ft in the air and they haven't been stopped by God and we haven't found heaven, military spy planes fly even further, space rockets even go out of our atmosphere,
c) how would they cope with the lack of oxygen without specialist equipment when that high up
d) we know whats outside our solar system and we still haven't found heaven, so how tall was this tower to be a threat to God.

See how stupid and unreasonable that story sounds now.

This is a stupid question.... Obviously if a person is religious they are obviously considering their religion. Im not religious, but I have religious freinds.

[shenzys]

(Original post by Azaro)
of course they dont. thats the whole idea of religion, making the mass stupidmand disallowing things like critical thinking

DNA- so specific and structured. Critically thinking, someone or something must have constructed this for it to be as amazing as this - I don't understand how anyone can believe it was built and organised in the human body as precise as it is out of nothing?

[NB_ide]

(Original post by Nacho King)
Freedom from an oppressive belief system.

Give me some "tangible" examples of how their lives would actually be improved, how/why they'd be happier to bear your sort of ideas about reality than their current sort of ideas about reality?

[Pheonix1]

(Original post by Nacho King)
It is my belief that most religious people are still believers because they have never questioned their beliefs.

Most people only get a one sided opinion, what the Bible/Qu'ran etc. says, what their priest tells them, peer pressure from others. We can see most people don't question their beliefs because a large percentage of people are the same religion as they were born into and what their parents were and have never looked at any others.

Why not critically assess your religion, use logic and common sense to see if stories sound plausable (maybe start with Noah's Ark), watch youtube videos from athiests and see what they have to say etc.

There is nothing to lose, only something to gain. Why dedicate your whole life to something without even questioning it? Thats dumb.

So religious believers, have you ever strongly researched and evaluated your faith? I don't mean go through the Bible with a Bible guide, I mean look at what it says critically and without your emotional head on and see if it still sounds true.

I've thought of a good example, the Tower of Babel is in the book of Genesis, where apparently people attempted to build a tower to reach heaven and God destroyed it as it was a threat to him and then scattered everyone around the world and gave them different languages so they wouldn't be able to build another tower.

A logical person would say that this story is never going to be real because humans would never be able to build a tower to reach heaven because:
a) they wouldn't have the metal structures etc. to build a stable tower miles high, think of skyscrappers today,
b) planes fly 30,000ft in the air and they haven't been stopped by God and we haven't found heaven, military spy planes fly even further, space rockets even go out of our atmosphere,
c) how would they cope with the lack of oxygen without specialist equipment when that high up
d) we know whats outside our solar system and we still haven't found heaven, so how tall was this tower to be a threat to God.

See how stupid and unreasonable that story sounds now.

I'm Christian, and I can honestly say that yes, I have critically evaluated my faith. And till this day I still ask questions. BUT I still believe. I was out of the church for a few years (not by choice) but when I had the opportunity to start going again, I did. And here I am

I understand that people don't get why we believe in something, but on that same wave legth, I find it hard to understand how someone can not believe in anything < Im not trying to be obtuse, I promise!

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by shenzys)


DNA- so specific and structured. Critically thinking, someone or something must have constructed this for it to be as amazing as this - I don't understand how anyone can believe it was built and organised in the human body as precise as it is out of nothing?

Not this argument again.

Why must something have constructed it? Break it down to the very basics, and DNA's structure is pure chemistry, bonds formed both making the chains, and joining the chains together based on nothing more than the ways in which each nucleotide is capable of reacting due to it's components. That the base pairings exist is due to nothing more than size and structure of the base.

No-one says it's "build and organised out of nothing", I've no idea where you get that from. What they argue, quite correctly, is that the process through which DNA is constructed can be explained through nothing more than the natural - not supernatural involvement.

[shenzys]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
Not this argument again.

Why must something have constructed it? Break it down to the very basics, and DNA's structure is pure chemistry, bonds formed both making the chains, and joining the chains together based on nothing more than the ways in which each nucleotide is capable of reacting due to it's components. That the base pairings exist is due to nothing more than size and structure of the base.

No-one says it's "build and organised out of nothing", I've no idea where you get that from. What they argue, quite correctly, is that the process through which DNA is constructed can be explained through nothing more than the natural - not supernatural involvement.

In my eyes I cannot see how our bodies- every single fine detail was as a result of ''natural involvement''. Dr Lawrence Brown gives a really good talk on this if you want to check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNLZboiMus. Everything in life is created for a purpose- including human beings- and everything we possess incluing our eyesight, hearing, limbs e.t.c was designed to fulfil the purpose. But hey you believe what you want and I believe what I want.

[Sweet-Caroline]

(Original post by Nacho King)
I've thought of a good example, the Tower of Babel is in the book of Genesis, where apparently people attempted to build a tower to reach heaven and God destroyed it as it was a threat to him and then scattered everyone around the world and gave them different languages so they wouldn't be able to build another tower.

A logical person would say that this story is never going to be real because humans would never be able to build a tower to reach heaven because:
a) they wouldn't have the metal structures etc. to build a stable tower miles high, think of skyscrappers today,
b) planes fly 30,000ft in the air and they haven't been stopped by God and we haven't found heaven, military spy planes fly even further, space rockets even go out of our atmosphere,
c) how would they cope with the lack of oxygen without specialist equipment when that high up
d) we know whats outside our solar system and we still haven't found heaven, so how tall was this tower to be a threat to God.

See how stupid and unreasonable that story sounds now.

Um, it wasn't that they ACTUALLY built a tower to heaven... They thought that by building such a tower they could collectively overthrow God and would have no need for Him if they could reach His level. Clearly God wan't threatened, just probably a bit peeved that people thought they could be as great as Him, so hampered their efforts.

And as for 'we still haven't found heaven', REALLY? God is outside of space and time, their rules don't apply to him, don't you think His kingdom would be too? How limiting to say that because we can't see it, it doesn't exist.

I'm a Christian, not because my parents told me to be, not because that's what was forced upon me, but because I've objectively examined the evidence and found the Christianity fits, and it makes sense, and there's no other explanation. And I have an IQ of like 145.

Oh, and *skyscrapers.
And just general lack of grammar.

[Dark Lord of Mordor]

(Original post by Sweet-Caroline)
Um, it wasn't that they ACTUALLY built a tower to heaven... They thought that by building such a tower they could collectively overthrow God and would have no need for Him if they could reach His level. Clearly God wan't threatened, just probably a bit peeved that people thought they could be as great as Him, so hampered their efforts.

And as for 'we still haven't found heaven', REALLY? God is outside of space and time, their rules don't apply to him, don't you think His kingdom would be too? How limiting to say that because we can't see it, it doesn't exist.

I'm a Christian, not because my parents told me to be, not because that's what was forced upon me, but because I've objectively examined the evidence and found the Christianity fits, and it makes sense, and there's no other explanation. And I have an IQ of like 145.

Oh, and *skyscrapers.
And just general lack of grammar.

In that case, you should know not to start your sentences with conjunctions. (joking)

[Azaro]

(Original post by shenzys)


DNA- so specific and structured. Critically thinking, someone or something must have constructed this for it to be as amazing as this - I don't understand how anyone can believe it was built and organised in the human body as precise as it is out of nothing?

wanna try my language?

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by shenzys)
In my eyes I cannot see how our bodies- every single fine detail was as a result of ''natural involvement''. Dr Lawrence Brown gives a really good talk on this if you want to check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNLZboiMus. Everything in life is created for a purpose- including human beings- and everything we possess incluing our eyesight, hearing, limbs e.t.c was designed to fulfil the purpose. But hey you believe what you want and I believe what I want.

I've never quite got that idea - just because you lack the imagination to see how the body is "the result of natural involvement", doesn't mean it's not the case, and the "I don't understand how therefore God" argument is (IMO) the weakest argument for a deity that there is.

[PhilipMiti]

(Original post by Nacho King)
It is my belief that most religious people are still believers because they have never questioned their beliefs.

Most people only get a one sided opinion, what the Bible/Qu'ran etc. says, what their priest tells them, peer pressure from others. We can see most people don't question their beliefs because a large percentage of people are the same religion as they were born into and what their parents were and have never looked at any others.

Why not critically assess your religion, use logic and common sense to see if stories sound plausable (maybe start with Noah's Ark), watch youtube videos from athiests and see what they have to say etc.

There is nothing to lose, only something to gain. Why dedicate your whole life to something without even questioning it? Thats dumb.

So religious believers, have you ever strongly researched and evaluated your faith? I don't mean go through the Bible with a Bible guide, I mean look at what it says critically and without your emotional head on and see if it still sounds true.

I've thought of a good example, the Tower of Babel is in the book of Genesis, where apparently people attempted to build a tower to reach heaven and God destroyed it as it was a threat to him and then scattered everyone around the world and gave them different languages so they wouldn't be able to build another tower.

A logical person would say that this story is never going to be real because humans would never be able to build a tower to reach heaven because:
a) they wouldn't have the metal structures etc. to build a stable tower miles high, think of skyscrappers today,
b) planes fly 30,000ft in the air and they haven't been stopped by God and we haven't found heaven, military spy planes fly even further, space rockets even go out of our atmosphere,
c) how would they cope with the lack of oxygen without specialist equipment when that high up
d) we know whats outside our solar system and we still haven't found heaven, so how tall was this tower to be a threat to God.

See how stupid and unreasonable that story sounds now.

May i ask then, NackoKing, why people should believe in science rather than God.