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Religious people, do you ever strongly consider your faiths?

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    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    And even if you then break it down to just "should we believe in God" - then, what has this God done, how is he meant to be worshipped etc. - again, you need to specify the God, or at least go into more detail than "there's one God".

    Let's suppose there is a God, should I be sacrificing lambs to it or just a simple prayer? Should I be celebrating his creation of the universe, or killing all the ice giants?
    But see for all those latter questions to be answered, you would require some form of religion. That is to say that you would need some sort of ritualistic practice in order to worship the God. Whether it be killing lambs, taking communion or praying 5 times a day.

    Now you asked me...what must we do to worship this God?

    Well...we have to wait for that God to let us know how he's liked to be worshiped...is that not obvious?

    According to you, we must first accept that God exists. But then we must start determining our own ways of worshiping God? How does that follow? Why must we come up with those ways?

    So to answer your question...we must do none of what you said. The whole point of accepting and submitting to a God is to follow that God. If your plan is to accept God, but then worship Him in the ways you decide and the ways that are meaningful to you...then why did you accept that God in the first place because you clearly could care less what He wants from you...

    So your question is useless.
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    (Original post by .eXe)
    But how does that PROVE that Quran is right?

    I don't get your reasoning :confused:

    You keep arguing that Quran is right because no one can write a better book.

    But that's not a proof! Do you even understand what proof means?

    And there already exists an exponentially better book than the Quran...it's called the Bible (the best selling and most widely read book in the world...perhaps you've heard of it?)
    The bible is also the worlds most shoplifted book......
    JS
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    (Original post by FrightBright)
    I decided to believe in God.

    wtf. You can't decide to believe something. :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Nacho King)
    It is my belief that most religious people are still believers because they have never questioned their beliefs.

    Most people only get a one sided opinion, what the Bible/Qu'ran etc. says, what their priest tells them, peer pressure from others. We can see most people don't question their beliefs because a large percentage of people are the same religion as they were born into and what their parents were and have never looked at any others.

    Why not critically assess your religion, use logic and common sense to see if stories sound plausable (maybe start with Noah's Ark), watch youtube videos from athiests and see what they have to say etc.

    There is nothing to lose, only something to gain. Why dedicate your whole life to something without even questioning it? Thats dumb.

    So religious believers, have you ever strongly researched and evaluated your faith? I don't mean go through the Bible with a Bible guide, I mean look at what it says critically and without your emotional head on and see if it still sounds true.

    I've thought of a good example, the Tower of Babel is in the book of Genesis, where apparently people attempted to build a tower to reach heaven and God destroyed it as it was a threat to him and then scattered everyone around the world and gave them different languages so they wouldn't be able to build another tower.

    A logical person would say that this story is never going to be real because humans would never be able to build a tower to reach heaven because:
    a) they wouldn't have the metal structures etc. to build a stable tower miles high, think of skyscrappers today,
    b) planes fly 30,000ft in the air and they haven't been stopped by God and we haven't found heaven, military spy planes fly even further, space rockets even go out of our atmosphere,
    c) how would they cope with the lack of oxygen without specialist equipment when that high up
    d) we know whats outside our solar system and we still haven't found heaven, so how tall was this tower to be a threat to God.

    See how stupid and unreasonable that story sounds now.



    There have been over 500,000 different religions since the start of mankind. How is your any more credible?
    Was born in a muslim family, I was never expected to pray, only maybey in the last two years during Ramadan my mum asks me to do it.

    When I was 12-13 years old, I was basically muslim only due to name, I never did anything religious except for fasting although even people at school who were the worst of people did them so it was no biggy.

    So anyway I discovered Youtube, ventured upon channels where people literally hated Islam, their arguments seemed credible at the first glance but anyway I thought I'd look into this and after alot of research their arguments seemed pretty weak, they basically said true Islam was killing all other types of people etc...
    They just quoted everything out of context to their advantage.

    Even after research my religion I was n't actually religious. Then one day I watched a movie made by Westerners called "The Message" then at this point I trully embraced Islam and started doing more indept research and I really didn't find anything that I wouldn't believe in.

    After joining TSR I learned of sites such as WikiIslam, Faithfreedom and councilofexmuslims, I went through to see what they had to say since I knew they were really anti-Islamic.

    Council Of Ex-Muslims - Was the most retarded site I have ever been on they don't even seem to use logic behind their arguments its 24/7 rage at Islam, seemed like that anyway but maybey I was just on the wrong section of their Forums.

    WikiIslam - Bias site but better then faithfreedom or councilofex...

    Faith Freedom - its called Faith freedom but all I saw it doing was oppressing one faith with really pathetic arguments.

    I gave atheists or haters chance to put forward their arguments but they aren't really that good (my view anyway).

    Anyway their life they can do what they want.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Was born in a muslim family, I was never expected to pray, only maybey in the last two years during Ramadan my mum asks me to do it.

    When I was 12-13 years old, I was basically muslim only due to name, I never did anything religious except for fasting although even people at school who were the worst of people did them so it was no biggy.

    So anyway I discovered Youtube, ventured upon channels where people literally hated Islam, their arguments seemed credible at the first glance but anyway I thought I'd look into this and after alot of research their arguments seemed pretty weak, they basically said true Islam was killing all other types of people etc...
    They just quoted everything out of context to their advantage.

    Even after research my religion I was n't actually religious. Then one day I watched a movie made by Westerners called "The Message" then at this point I trully embraced Islam and started doing more indept research and I really didn't find anything that I wouldn't believe in.

    After joining TSR I learned of sites such as WikiIslam, Faithfreedom and councilofexmuslims, I went through to see what they had to say since I knew they were really anti-Islamic.

    Council Of Ex-Muslims - Was the most retarded site I have ever been on they don't even seem to use logic behind their arguments its 24/7 rage at Islam, seemed like that anyway but maybey I was just on the wrong section of their Forums.

    WikiIslam - Bias site but better then faithfreedom or councilofex...

    Faith Freedom - its called Faith freedom but all I saw it doing was oppressing one faith with really pathetic arguments.

    I gave atheists or haters chance to put forward their arguments but they aren't really that good (my view anyway).

    Anyway their life they can do what they want.
    you can't have been talking to informed people then. Good athiest arguments are based on logic and evidence and therefore are immedietely more convincing then something based on faith and no evidence.
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    questioned my belief and studied it, went to Jerusalem , studied it more, been a non believer and no I do not feel a bit silly at all believing in what I do. I am a Christian and a proud one too. I go to church with a wide range of people from Captain of British Airways, to doctors, to scientist and no one feels silly.

    End of the day we will all die and probably be forgotten because you nor I can ever prove a God or not exists and God will continued to be believed whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew , Sikh etc.
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    (Original post by Nacho King)
    Your beliefs are all psycological. God is a mental issue. I used to have social anxiety and strongly believe that people were judging me negatively at the time, I really believed it, but were they no. I was living a lie.

    Oh dear now I read it all! You comparing believing in God to having social anxiety and believing people were judging you? and you saying someone who believes in GOD is living a lie??? I do not know whether to laught or cry at your sillyness. That is an awful analysis and it won't get you famous for proving God does not exist. You will be dead in 100 years and no one will even remember you or think about you much probably people will still believe in God and you won't cannot and never will prove he does not exist like I can't prove he does exist.
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    (Original post by Hypocrism)
    So the Qu'ran doesn't state "everything that we need to know about this universe" or "everything you need to know about life", does it?
    The Quran contains ‘everything’.Where it says, "With Him are the keys of the Unseen. None but He knows them. And He knows what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falls but with His Knowledge, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, nothing of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a Manifest Book. (al-An‘am, 6.59)"
    Ibn Mas‘ud says that the Quran contain all the information on everything but we may not be able to see everything in it. Ibn ‘Abbas, known as the Interpreter of the Quran and also the Scholar of the Ummah, asserts that if he loses the rein of his camel, he can find it by means of the Quran. On the other hand, Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti, a significant scholar who lived in Egypt in the 15th century, explains that all sciences or branches of knowledge are to be found in the Quran.

    May peace be with you and i will remember you in my prayer!!!
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    (Original post by dina12)
    The Quran contains ‘everything’.Where it says, "With Him are the keys of the Unseen. None but He knows them. And He knows what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falls but with His Knowledge, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, nothing of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a Manifest Book. (al-An‘am, 6.59)"
    Ibn Mas‘ud says that the Quran contain all the information on everything but we may not be able to see everything in it. Ibn ‘Abbas, known as the Interpreter of the Quran and also the Scholar of the Ummah, asserts that if he loses the rein of his camel, he can find it by means of the Quran. On the other hand, Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti, a significant scholar who lived in Egypt in the 15th century, explains that all sciences or branches of knowledge are to be found in the Quran.

    May peace be with you and i will remember you in my prayer!!!
    What a rock-solid reference. A 15th century desert scholar with no comprehension of modern science says the Qu'ran is magic and contains everything! Was this the revelation that made OTHER people of his time think that way? Because he must have been the first, RIGHT? Let's all bow and cheer.

    Seriously. Find me the Qu'ran's information about pharyngeal pouches in craniofacial development of the foetus, then we'll talk. If not, you have to readdress your claim that the Qu'ran contains everything.

    (And on another note, there is infinite knowledge. It therefore cannot be contained in a finite book.)
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    (Original post by harvester94)
    questioned my belief and studied it, went to Jerusalem , studied it more, been a non believer and no I do not feel a bit silly at all believing in what I do. I am a Christian and a proud one too. I go to church with a wide range of people from Captain of British Airways, to doctors, to scientist and no one feels silly.

    End of the day we will all die and probably be forgotten because you nor I can ever prove a God or not exists and God will continued to be believed whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew , Sikh etc.
    this I find confusing, you say you have studied the matter and come to the conclusion that you can not prove or disprove God's existence, nobody can

    surely that is the place where you stop and move on ?

    lets say hypothetically someone suggests that the flying spaghetti monster is real, you think long and hard about it and evaluate all the evidence etc (for which there is none lol), eventually you decide you can't prove it any more than you can disprove it

    why would you then say you believe in it ?! that's the part that gets me every time, nothing in the world baffles me more. It is the most irrational, illogical, unscientific mentality ever
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    (Original post by Nacho King)
    you can't have been talking to informed people then. Good athiest arguments are based on logic and evidence and therefore are immedietely more convincing then something based on faith and no evidence.

    Give me some of the "good" ones.
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    This thread was nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on religious people. Pathetic.
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    (Original post by Formerly Helpful_C)
    This thread was nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on religious people. Pathetic.
    Every thread in the religion section ending in a question mark is fundamentally an attack on religious people.
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    (Original post by Sheep)
    this I find confusing, you say you have studied the matter and come to the conclusion that you can not prove or disprove God's existence, nobody can

    surely that is the place where you stop and move on ?

    lets say hypothetically someone suggests that the flying spaghetti monster is real, you think long and hard about it and evaluate all the evidence etc (for which there is none lol), eventually you decide you can't prove it any more than you can disprove it

    why would you then say you believe in it ?! that's the part that gets me every time, nothing in the world baffles me more. It is the most irrational, illogical, unscientific mentality ever

    Do not let it confuse you too much. LOL I know some people need hard evidence. I studied my religion and to me it stood out. I have faith and enough evidence FOR ME whether you think it is illogical or not will not make one shred of difference to me or billions of others. There is no NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO GO. Whichever way we discuss or debate my point is I very much doubt either of us can prove what we believe or feel. And whatever God will always be believed in. You do not need evidence to believe in a creator. That is God.

    It is NOT an unscientific mind at all to believe in God. LOL.
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    (Original post by harvester94)
    There is no NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO GOD
    I think this is the thing that annoys people most.

    You can't prove a negative. Without trying to sound too insulting, the same thing can be said about an infinite amount of things. Like there is no evidence that there isn't an invisible german break dancer that lives on the moon.
    What can be asserted with no evidence can and should be dismissed without evidence.

    Do you mind me asking what you was looking for when researching your faith if it wasn't empirical evidence?
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    (Original post by harvester94)
    Do not let it confuse you too much. LOL I know some people need hard evidence. I studied my religion and to me it stood out. I have faith and enough evidence FOR ME whether you think it is illogical or not will not make one shred of difference to me or billions of others. There is no NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO GOD. Whichever way we discuss or debate my point is I very much doubt either of us can prove what we believe or feel. And whatever God will always be believed in. You do not need evidence to believe in a creator. That is God.

    It is NOT an unscientific mind at all to believe in God. LOL.
    while it is true I can't prove God doesn't exist, just like you can't prove he does exist, that is a debate between atheism and theism, one that neither side can really win

    but you said you were a Christian, that is very different to just believing in God, that means you also believe in all the nonsense that comes with the Bible and all those ancient fairy tales

    Even if you could prove that God definitely does exist, there is absolutely no reason to believe any of what is written in the bible, or the koran, or torah or any other old man-made book, so why do you?

    you said I can't prove God doesn't exist, that's true but I can however prove that the bible is full of flaws, contradictions and just general bronze age crap that we now know is wrong
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    (Original post by amime)
    I think this is the thing that annoys people most.

    You can't prove a negative. Without trying to sound too insulting, the same thing can be said about an infinite amount of things. Like there is no evidence that there isn't an invisible german break dancer that lives on the moon.
    What can be asserted with no evidence can and should be dismissed without evidence.

    Do you mind me asking what you was looking for when researching your faith if it wasn't empirical evidence?
    This probably won't meet your criteria but my faith is not based on Empirical evidence. Empirical is generally taken to be a collection of data on which to base a theory. And only that is at a GUESS when coming to explain our existence and how the world began.

    I was not a believer and wasn't brought up to be either so no brainwashing there. Then I became a deist I believed in a creator, higher being that actually created us engineered us if you like.

    My evidence is what I read in the bible, what I feel and my personal relationship with God. My experience in Jerusalem was unbelievable but then again we had nothing but the best tour guides. I know it may sound silly my my faith the size of mustard has really helped me out in tricky situation of course not always to what I wanted.

    It has been amazing for me. I do not feel I am here by chance. I have my own evidence for our creation. This will be laughed at and mocked by certain people who constantly look for reasons and evidence of God but too be honest it isn't going to happen any time soon. This won't be the last thread or even debate on religion, God.

    The most important thing is I truly believe in Jesus Christ and his purpose here. Seek and you shall find. I have and I am happy.
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    (Original post by harvester94)
    This probably won't meet your criteria but my faith is not based on Empirical evidence. Empirical is generally taken to be a collection of data on which to base a theory. And only that is at a GUESS when coming to explain our existence and how the world began.

    I was not a believer and wasn't brought up to be either so no brainwashing there. Then I became a deist I believed in a creator, higher being that actually created us engineered us if you like.

    My evidence is what I read in the bible, what I feel and my personal relationship with God. My experience in Jerusalem was unbelievable but then again we had nothing but the best tour guides. I know it may sound silly my my faith the size of mustard has really helped me out in tricky situation of course not always to what I wanted.

    It has been amazing for me. I do not feel I am here by chance. I have my own evidence for our creation. This will be laughed at and mocked by certain people who constantly look for reasons and evidence of God but too be honest it isn't going to happen any time soon. This won't be the last thread or even debate on religion, God.

    The most important thing is I truly believe in Jesus Christ and his purpose here. Seek and you shall find. I have and I am happy.
    If you can't explain your reasons for believing for us, that just means you can't explain them to yourself.

    If you can't explain your reasons for believing to yourself, then you're clearly delusional.
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    (Original post by Hypocrism)
    If you can't explain your reasons for believing for us, that just means you can't explain them to yourself.

    If you can't explain your reasons for believing to yourself, then you're clearly delusional.
    this.

    Harvester, lets say you know this guy and you're having a conversation with him

    he tells you a fascinating story that goes something like this:



    then it turns out he is completely sincere, and he thinks this actually happened, that it's the truth

    you might ask him "why would you believe that nonsense? what evidence are you basing any of this on?" and his answer is probably going to be very very similar to yours lol

    In this respect there is absolutely no difference between a christian, a muslim, a scientologist, a pastafarian, you're all equally delusional and it sounds harsh but I find it very difficult to take such people seriously

    I'm sure there have been people sent to psychiatric hospitals / insane asylums for less
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    (Original post by harvester94)
    This probably won't meet your criteria but my faith is not based on Empirical evidence. Empirical is generally taken to be a collection of data on which to base a theory. And only that is at a GUESS when coming to explain our existence and how the world began.

    I was not a believer and wasn't brought up to be either so no brainwashing there. Then I became a deist I believed in a creator, higher being that actually created us engineered us if you like.

    My evidence is what I read in the bible, what I feel and my personal relationship with God. My experience in Jerusalem was unbelievable but then again we had nothing but the best tour guides. I know it may sound silly my my faith the size of mustard has really helped me out in tricky situation of course not always to what I wanted.

    It has been amazing for me. I do not feel I am here by chance. I have my own evidence for our creation. This will be laughed at and mocked by certain people who constantly look for reasons and evidence of God but too be honest it isn't going to happen any time soon. This won't be the last thread or even debate on religion, God.

    The most important thing is I truly believe in Jesus Christ and his purpose here. Seek and you shall find. I have and I am happy.
    This is what annoys me about religion. Life is here right before your very eyes and senses. You have the chance to share it with friends and loved ones, throughout the ups and downs. There are amazing experiences to be had. People in our society should not need religion to fill in the apparent spiritual void in our lives. Why turn to empty promises from an unreliable historical book when there are so many real and absolute things out there to astonish ourselves with?
    Some people find it hard to accept that we are just organisms, that our extravagantly complex personalities are essentially fueled by countless chemical reactions whirling around inside our bodies, and that there is significant scientific evidence for an explanation of how the universe began (and might end). But that does not need to detract from just how amazing life is. We will probably never know fully what on earth is going on to cause and sustain our existence and reality itself, but whatever is going on is far more amazing than the tired words of Jesus or Muhammad.

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