[SillyMilly]

(Original post by Nacho King)
There is no test from God, it is just chance, with so many people in the world, some will die young, bad things will happen to good people, good things to bad people. The world is just a numbers game, but most people want to give a reason to things.

Then God has no input in our world, its totally pointless to pray or ask him for anything if he is is purely a deist god

[BusheSCFC]

(Original post by Nacho King)
Yeah well there is far more reasons why religion is bull, this is one part of it. How come so many people on deathrow are chrisitian maybe because they have nothing to live for so make up God, so many deathbed conversions because people are scared of death, how come prayer never works, good things happen to people and its god, bad things and it must be the devil etc. The list goes on.

Religion is constructed for people to believe in it, using faith to discount all evidence against it, using heaven to entice people to join and hell to scare them into following.

I Agree about all the deathbed and deathrow conversions. They are all just people scared of death and want to go to heaven, they are not true genuine christians. Although if they are truly repentful (which most of them are not), they will go to heaven. How do you know praying does not work? You just think that 'If i pray i will get what i pray for'. God is working in the world today - you just don't see it.

[Pixie A]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
I dunno, I seem to be going fine on those fronts without any sort of higher power. I know what morals are because it's fairly easy to see right from wrong in most situations, again without a God. Except of course, it is a religion.

What do you base your choices of good and evil on though? Because without God it seems as though moral judgement is subjective to whatever the person decides is right or wrong? Was the sense of right or wrong something that evolved in human beings as well. I believe our sense of right or wrong has been with us ever since our separation from God because of sin and God clearly shows us what right and wrong is. What is your definition of a religion by the way?

[Nacho King]

(Original post by Pixie A)
What do you base your choices of good and evil on though? Because without God it seems as though moral judgement is subjective to whatever the person decides is right or wrong? Was the sense of right or wrong something that evolved in human beings as well. I believe our sense of right or wrong has been with us ever since our separation from God because of sin and God clearly shows us what right and wrong is. What is your definition of a religion by the way?

Athiests are more moral than Christians because we get no reward for being good and no punishment for being bad. We therefore have stronger moral not done for self gain. Most athiest realise that religion destroys society and therefore are looking for the good of society so will be moral. There are bad athiests but there are also alot of bad religous people, look at the Pope, responsiblible for the murder of thousands because he claims condoms worsen the problem of AIDS - what an idiot.

[BusheSCFC]

(Original post by Nacho King)
Your're dumb.

Im far from dumb. Just because i believe in God, you consider me dumb. You're very ignorant. And you spelt 'You're' as 'Your're' < You have to be as thick as pig **** to do that. HAHA Bellend.

[SillyMilly]

I just dont understand how when stuff is good relgious people claim its the work of god, God caused this person to get healed blah blah but as soon as something goes wrong in the world like the massacre of syrian children suddanly god has no input in the world, i just dont understand how you can still have faith

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by Pixie A)
What do you base your choices of good and evil on though? Because without God it seems as though moral judgement is subjective to whatever the person decides is right or wrong? Was the sense of right or wrong something that evolved in human beings as well. I believe our sense of right or wrong has been with us ever since our separation from God because of sin and God clearly shows us what right and wrong is. What is your definition of a religion by the way?

Good - benefits humanity, evil - detrimental to human existence.
Well, yes, morality is subjective because people think in different ways. As for whether a sense of right and wrong came through evolution - possibly, I think it's construed from the instinct for self-preservation though.
Not very clear when we've got massacres and lots of discrimination popping up around the world is it?

(Original post by oed)
noun
[mass noun]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
ideas about the relationship between science and religion
[count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:
the world’s great religions
[count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
consumerism is the new religion

So, Christianity is clearly a religion.

[Nacho King]

(Original post by BusheSCFC)
I Agree about all the deathbed and deathrow conversions. They are all just people scared of death and want to go to heaven, they are not true genuine christians. Although if they are truly repentful (which most of them are not), they will go to heaven. How do you know praying does not work? You just think that 'If i pray i will get what i pray for'. God is working in the world today - you just don't see it.

Its obvious prayer doesn't work, if prayer worked then why are there so many bad things in the world, why can thousands of people pray for a sick celebrity but they still die, everything happens by chance, and yet christians like to tink that if they prayed for a cancer patient and they survive that God has helped them and if they die then it was God's plan, whereas in reality some cancer patients will live, so will die. Use some common sense.

[SJC]

I think studying the Ontological Argument helped me with this question - Yes, it's perffectly natural to question beliefs.
As Anselm stated , it is through both reason and faith we seek to find the understanding of God.


I personally know many people who are firm belivers (such as my brother who is in the process of finishing a MA in Theology in the hope of becoming a vicar), who have such a faith I wish I possessed.

Unfortunatley, I do not. I have quite an Agnostic approach towards Christianity - I often consider the depth Christianity has to it which I belive many believers do not or they would conclude the same as I do - that religion has no empirical evidence and simply relies on faith alone - in a modern society is faith all we really can rely on?


Jeesh, this thread has set my mind off again, it's the Bible which I find flaw in.
Such translations and interpretations are to vague.
Job 1:21 - God gives life and takes away life.

If that be the case, God killed His only son?
God gave life to Hitler?
God took away 6 million Jews in a mass genocide?

Benelvent, Omnipotent and Omniscient.. I think not.

[BusheSCFC]

(Original post by SillyMilly)
I just dont understand how when stuff is good relgious people claim its the work of god, God caused this person to get healed blah blah but as soon as something goes wrong in the world like the massacre of syrian children suddanly god has no input in the world, i just dont understand how you can still have faith

It isn't the work of God though. God gave us as humans free will. So what we do on earth is up to us, we can't keep holding God accountable for everything. Like the massacre of syrian children is done by people, whom God gave freewill. There is evil in the world, but we can't keep blaming God. And the reason you may not have faith is because you are not a strong enough person - not you personally.

[Nacho King]

(Original post by BusheSCFC)
Im far from dumb. Just because i believe in God, you consider me dumb. You're very ignorant. And you spelt 'You're' as 'Your're' < You have to be as thick as pig **** to do that. HAHA Bellend.

Open your eyes, I am posting so many replies to people that I don't check the spelling, I know how to use spelling and grammer you idiot.

[SJC]

Ooops, pardon my typos ^^

[Pixie A]

(Original post by Nacho King)
Athiests are more moral than Christians because we get no reward for being good and no punishment for being bad. We therefore have stronger moral not done for self gain. Most athiest realise that religion destroys society and therefore are looking for the good of society so will be moral. There are bad athiests but there are also alot of bad religous people, look at the Pope, responsiblible for the murder of thousands because he claims condoms worsen the problem of AIDS - what an idiot.

As i said before, you can't really tell what motivates a person. Yes there are some Christians don't act very God like but nobody but God is perfect and its not fair to base the whole of Christianity on the ones who don't portray it well. Most don't do things out of the fear of hell or the promise of heaven. They do it because of the love of God and to be close to him, going to heaven is just the cherry on the cake

[BusheSCFC]

(Original post by SJC)
I think studying the Ontological Argument helped me with this question - Yes, it's perffectly natural to question beliefs.
As Anselm stated , it is through both reason and faith we seek to find the understanding of God.


I personally know many people who are firm belivers (such as my brother who is in the process of finishing a MA in Theology in the hope of becoming a vicar), who have such a faith I wish I possessed.

Unfortunatley, I do not. I have quite an Agnostic approach towards Christianity - I often consider the depth Christianity has to it which I belive many believers do not or they would conclude the same as I do - that religion has no empirical evidence and simply relies on faith alone - in a modern society is faith all we really can rely on?


Jeesh, this thread has set my mind off again, it's the Bible which I find flaw in.
Such translations and interpretations are to vague.
Job 1:21 - God gives life and takes away life.

If that be the case, God killed His only son?
God gave life to Hitler?
God took away 6 million Jews in a mass genocide?

Benelvent, Omnipotent and Omniscient.. I think not.

God gave freewill. Hitler was born and misused freewill in the act of killing the jews.

[SillyMilly]

(Original post by BusheSCFC)
It isn't the work of God though. God gave us as humans free will. So what we do on earth is up to us, we can't keep holding God accountable for everything. Like the massacre of syrian children is done by people, whom God gave freewill. There is evil in the world, but we can't keep blaming God. And the reason you may not have faith is because you are not a strong enough person - not you personally.

But according to the bible god is meant to omnipotent, so clearly he isint as he would of intervened in human tragadies therefore does that mean the bible is wrong? If he did exisit he is purely deisist so whats the point in prayer he cant do anything about it

[BusheSCFC]

(Original post by SillyMilly)
But according to the bible god is meant to omnipotent, so clearly he isint as he would of intervened in human tragadies therefore does that mean the bible is wrong? If he did exisit he is purely deisist so whats the point in prayer he cant do anything about it

Yes he is omnipotent, but doesn't mean he will act upon it. When jesus died died on the cross he gave us free will, his work on earth was done and it is our job to use freewill correctly. We can pray and he can answer our prayers, but not everything.

[SJC]

(Original post by BusheSCFC)
God gave freewill. Hitler was born and misused freewill in the act of killing the jews.

I argue that God didn't give us free will at all! We're not autonomous beings at all - even if you're Christian or athiest!

To a secular - we have heteristic characteristics - influenced by inner emotions that stem us to a particular conclusion and judgement. If God gave us these emotions, he isn't allowing us to be truly free.

And, Christinas believe in the Conscience (See Romans , I think 225.)
If it is the 'unwritten law of the heart' , then it's from God and his revelations and will within. Thus, we are not truly free.

[Mazzini]

(Original post by Nacho King)
I'm sure it doesn't exist by using reason, common sense, critical thinking, logical and the most possible outcome. If you were 99.9% sure something didn't exist and 0.1% not, you wouldn't believe in it would you.

Also I know how to use grammer, I was rushing to get it posted and was more concerned about getting the message out. Maybe you should spend more time analysing your stupid religion rather than looking at grammer, or is that one of the criteria for getting into heaven nowadays.

Because you can see into other dimensions?

Also, "grammar" doesn't have an "e" in it.

[EffieFlowers]

You aren't being completely honest with yourself if you don't question your faith, you should always question your faith.

[Pixie A]

(Original post by SillyMilly)
But according to the bible god is meant to omnipotent, so clearly he isint as he would of intervened in human tragadies therefore does that mean the bible is wrong? If he did exisit he is purely deisist so whats the point in prayer he cant do anything about it

Firstly, God doesn't force people to do evil things. They make that choice themselves, you can't hold God responsible for that. Evil came into the world when the fall happened, not God's fault. Lastly, evil is the result of not having God, just like darkness is the result of not having light