is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?
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is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?the justice system seems to only care about the welfare of criminals.
sentencing guidelines are obscenely weak and permissive. for example, the other day a serial violent offender who should have been in jail already was given just 10 years for a cold blooded murder. story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18420545
in britain these sorts of outrageous sentences are common place.
a couple of interesting stories have happened in the US in the last few days; in one, a man beat to death a pedophile who he found molesting his daughter; in the other, a couple hunted down ( after the police ignored their pleas for help) and shot to death a man who pimped out their daughter.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/11/ju...led/index.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hot-death.html
clearly, most people agree that the american vigilantes are heroes. so the question is: when is the point when ordinary citizens start fighting back against criminals and the pro criminal system that protects them? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?When mobs stone people to death in A'stan - that's generally considered a bad thing - but it's still vigilantism.
So what do you want? It's ok for stupid people in one country to invent punishments on the hoof, but in others it's not? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?Lmao!(Original post by hockeyjoe)
someone's abit too excited for Dark Knight rises aren't they -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?wouldn't it be when they start carrying out thing against the law itself, wouldn't that be the line, when they themselves being to commit crimes to get criminals and justice ???
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?the fundamental problem with vigilantism is not where punishment is inflicted on the guilty by vigilantes - much as not following due process is not clever , smart or sustainable ...
but when vigilantes come with their pitchforks and flaming torches to burn a paediatrician out of their home ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/au...ection.society -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?I'm sorry, you appear to have confused "most people" with "those who have no sense of justice and have no idea what rehabilitation means".(Original post by thinbeard)
clearly, most people agree that the american vigilantes are heroes. -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?(Original post by zippyRN)
the fundamental problem with vigilantism is not where punishment is inflicted on the guilty by vigilantes - much as not following due process is not clever , smart or sustainable ...
but when vigilantes come with their pitchforks and flaming torches to burn a paediatrician out of their home ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/au...ection.society
What's the difference between vigilantes getting the 'wrong' person and the system allowing the 'right' person the freedom to commit murder? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?So what would you do in the circumstances?.....would you watch on as your child was raped and trust in rehabilitation later on down the line?(Original post by Existentialistic)
I'm sorry, you appear to have confused "most people" with "those who have no sense of justice and have no idea what rehabilitation means". -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?An innocent person gets attacked...(Original post by thinbeard)
What's the difference between vigilantes getting the 'wrong' person and the system allowing the 'right' person the freedom to commit murder? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?What I would do is irrelevant. You lose all objectivity when you try to have a discussion but ask "what would you do..." questions.(Original post by thinbeard)
So what would you do in the circumstances?.....would you watch on as your child was raped and trust in rehabilitation later on down the line?
Killing someone is unjustifiable, no matter what crimes they have committed. Preventing someone from having a fair trial is a deprivation of their fundamental human rights.
Things can get out of hand very, very quickly when people have a mob-mentality.Last edited by Existentialistic; 15-06-2012 at 00:49. -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?Because punishing an innocent person is a lot worse than letting a guilty one go free, if "vigilantes" beat an innocent person up then how are they any different than the thug they may have initially been intending to punish?(Original post by thinbeard)
What's the difference between vigilantes getting the 'wrong' person and the system allowing the 'right' person the freedom to commit murder? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?(Original post by Existentialistic)
What I would do is irrelevant. You lose all objectivity when you try to have a discussion but ask "what would you do..." questions.
Killing someone is unjustifiable, no matter what crimes they have committed, period. Preventing someone from having a fair trial is a deprivation of their fundamental human rights, period.
Things can get out of hand very, very quickly when people have a mob-mentality.
What, Human rights like being a murder victim of someone who should have been in jail?
Human rights like the ultimate mob mentality.....democracy? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?This is the wonderful world of TSR, where anyone can stand for lofty ideals, whilst completely detached from reality.(Original post by thinbeard)
So what would you do in the circumstances?.....would you watch on as your child was raped and trust in rehabilitation later on down the line? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?The example of the man beating the guy who molested his daughter isn't an act of vigilantism. It can be argued to be self-defense, if the story is true.
The second example of the US again if the police ignored their case it must mean that their case was weak. And there's a on-going trial with the possibility of getting life without parole (in case of the man) and life (in case of the women). Rightly so. You can't allow premeditated murder to go unpunished.
Do you study law? Are you a judge? Do you know the guidelines judges work by? Have you reviewed the case? No. You're just a average Joe going on about how justice system in this country when you haven't got a bloody clue about it. These little reviews the news give you aren't enough to paint a picture of whether a decision was wrong or right. There's also the fact that the boy was only 15 which has to be taken into account. -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?(Original post by Darth Stewie)
Because punishing an innocent person is a lot worse than letting a guilty one go free, if "vigilantes" beat an innocent person up then how are they any different than the thug they may have initially been intending to punish?
You are missing my point. The weak and permissive british justice system allows known violent thugs free reign to commit violent acts on innocent people.
If vigilantes want to protect themselves, but occasionally get it wrong, Then what is the difference between them and the system which also gets is wrong? -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?(Original post by AntiMonarchist)
This is the wonderful world of TSR, where anyone can stand for lofty ideals, whilst completely detached from reality.
But it happened. Read the op. -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
The example of the man beating the guy who molested his daughter isn't an act of vigilantism. It can be argued to be self-defense, if the story is true.
The second example of the US again if the police ignored their case it must mean that their case was weak. And there's a on-going trial with the possibility of getting life without parole (in case of the man) and life (in case of the women). Rightly so. You can't allow premeditated murder to go unpunished.
Do you study law? Are you a judge? Do you know the guidelines judges work by? Have you reviewed the case? No. You're just a average Joe going on about how justice system in this country when you haven't got a bloody clue about it. These little reviews the news give you aren't enough to paint a picture of whether a decision was wrong or right. There's also the fact that the boy was only 15 which has to be taken into account.
15?.......yeah, like that matters AT ALL to the victim.Last edited by thinbeard; 15-06-2012 at 01:02. -
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Re: is vigilantism acceptable now that the justice system is against ordinary people?So you're not actually going to counter the fact that a fair trial is a fundamental human right? You do realise the right to a fair trial is listed on the European Convention on Human Rights?(Original post by thinbeard)
What, Human rights like being a murder victim of someone who should have been in jail?
Human rights like the ultimate mob mentality.....democracy?
