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Over 50,000 different species of spider...

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    To the bible bashers, why did God bother creating all of them?
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    Do not question the will of god or he will smite thee!
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    If you're trying to create an argument for why God exists, you could have done so much better than bringing attention to the diversity that spiders have achieved through evolution.

    Or have tried with an animal that there was only one species of, for a start.
    I think his argument is supposed to be against religion rather than for it.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I think his argument is supposed to be against religion rather than for it.
    Yes, I can see that now :rolleyes:
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    I think the insect this question is meant to be about is the beetle. J. B. S. Haldane said "The Creator, if He exists, has an inordinate fondness for beetles".
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    (Original post by Elwyn)
    I think the insect this question is meant to be about is the beetle. J. B. S. Haldane said "The Creator, if He exists, has an inordinate fondness for beetles".
    :yep: spiders... Shmiders
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    ****s 'n' gigs
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    He was bored
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    Why he bothered to create one of them, if he exists, is an equally valid question. If you're god and you make one, why not make 50,000 of them
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    Well I think 50,000 species of spider proves conclusively that God is a complete dickhead.
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    Because if you could populate a planet with humans and then set 50,000 different variations of eight legged monsters crawling across the surface to scare the living s*** out of people while you float around in the sky, you would?
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    Why did got invent parasites that inflict misery on third world children ?
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    To be honest you could ask the same question of many species, or ask about the creation of pathogens. Pathogens could be explained as means of effective population control, however their mechanism of action often results in horrific physical damage and intense suffering, where as clearly, since some illnesses present this way, God would have been able to create diseases which were fatal but painless. If the physical damage and pain were designed to allow others to detect the infected among them, then long incubation times and lack of initial symptoms seem illogical and the infected individual could simply present with clearly visible coloured spots on their skin which were not painful.
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    To the bible bashers, why did God bother creating all of them?
    The Bible doesn't say God made 50,000 species of Spiders, just like it doesn't say God made all the different breeds of Dogs.

    The bible says "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good" Genesis 1:25

    The word "kind" is the hebrew word "Min" this is also translated to mean species and they therefore people conclude that the bible teaches that God made all species on earth directly. What they forget is that the meaning of the word species has changed. Biblically the word Kind would be used to refer to things like "Dog Kind" this would include all canines like Wolves, Dogs etc.. or "Cat Kind" with all the different types of cats like Lions and Tigers etc. But now species means something different, there can be multiple species within a Kind eg.. Tigers and Lions are both Cats but are different species according to scientific classification methods. So the biblical Kind and the modern term species do not always correlate.


    The bible does not say that there is no variation (speciation) within a created Kind of animal e.g different breeds of Dogs, Wolves etc.. but it does say that one Kind can not change into anothe e.g a Cats cannot stop being cats, Canines can't stop being Canines and Finches can't stop being Finches. They may show variation within their Kind e.g Bigger beaks or different colour plummage etc but are still finches.


    So in answer to you question God may have created 50,000 species of spider but I think he made a smaller number of "kinds" of spiders that then speciated into the current variation of spiders we see today.
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    (Original post by Polka Dot)
    So in answer to you question God may have created 50,000 species of spider but I think he made a smaller number of "kinds" of spiders that then speciated into the current variation of spiders we see today.
    How?
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    How?
    Natural selection

    Genetic drfit
    Genetic variation
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    (Original post by Polka Dot)
    The Bible doesn't say God made 50,000 species of Spiders, just like it doesn't say God made all the different breeds of Dogs.

    The bible says "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good" Genesis 1:25

    The word "kind" is the hebrew word "Min" this is also translated to mean species and they therefore people conclude that the bible teaches that God made all species on earth directly. What they forget is that the meaning of the word species has changed. Biblically the word Kind would be used to refer to things like "Dog Kind" this would include all canines like Wolves, Dogs etc.. or "Cat Kind" with all the different types of cats like Lions and Tigers etc. But now species means something different, there can be multiple species within a Kind eg.. Tigers and Lions are both Cats but are different species according to scientific classification methods. So the biblical Kind and the modern term species do not always correlate.


    The bible does not say that there is no variation (speciation) within a created Kind of animal e.g different breeds of Dogs, Wolves etc.. but it does say that one Kind can not change into another e.g a Cats cannot stop being cats, Canines can't stop being Canines and Finches can't stop being Finches. They may show variation within their Kind e.g Bigger beaks or different colour plummage etc but are still finches.


    So in answer to you question God may have created 50,000 species of spider but I think he made a smaller number of "kinds" of spiders that then speciated into the current variation of spiders we see today.
    Surely this is not true: our evolutionary line diverged from their a few million years ago.

    There is the point when an animal evolves sufficiently that it is no longer classified under its old banner.
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    (Original post by Polka Dot)
    Natural selection

    Genetic drfit
    Genetic variation
    But surely this assumes that spiders have existed for tens of millions of years (for this sort of genetic drift to occur)? Then this contradicts religion etc.
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    (Original post by Polka Dot)
    The Bible doesn't say God made 50,000 species of Spiders, just like it doesn't say God made all the different breeds of Dogs.

    The bible says "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good" Genesis 1:25

    The word "kind" is the hebrew word "Min" this is also translated to mean species and they therefore people conclude that the bible teaches that God made all species on earth directly. What they forget is that the meaning of the word species has changed. Biblically the word Kind would be used to refer to things like "Dog Kind" this would include all canines like Wolves, Dogs etc.. or "Cat Kind" with all the different types of cats like Lions and Tigers etc. But now species means something different, there can be multiple species within a Kind eg.. Tigers and Lions are both Cats but are different species according to scientific classification methods. So the biblical Kind and the modern term species do not always correlate.


    The bible does not say that there is no variation (speciation) within a created Kind of animal e.g different breeds of Dogs, Wolves etc.. but it does say that one Kind can not change into anothe e.g a Cats cannot stop being cats, Canines can't stop being Canines and Finches can't stop being Finches. They may show variation within their Kind e.g Bigger beaks or different colour plummage etc but are still finches.


    So in answer to you question God may have created 50,000 species of spider but I think he made a smaller number of "kinds" of spiders that then speciated into the current variation of spiders we see today.
    How does this leave us with cross pollination with plants, or cloning, the argument is very interpretive. Shifting the goalposts again. Now that the human genome has been mapped and we are starting on other species, how long before we establish proof of species change. The religionists will have an answer for that no doubt.
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    (Original post by ThatPerson)
    Surely this is not true: our evolutionary line diverged from their a few million years ago.

    There is the point when an animal evolves sufficiently that it is no longer classified under its old banner.
    I well it depends on the criteria you set for the classification. Classification is not an absolute science and is subjective. But I believe there is a point beyond which you cannot cross. Existing genetic information can be adapted and changed and lost but new information can not be aquired.

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