[internetguru]

(Original post by toronto353)
The mission changed. Initially it was basically to stop Al Qaeda, but the mission developed and is now something different. The initial mission aims may be fulfilled, but the subsequent ones are still on going.

This secondary mission will never be complete the Taliban is larger now than it was 5 years ago.

[MacDaddi]

Shouldn't have gone in there in the first place.

However, if we are going to do a job, we have to do it properly

Rushed motion not worded very well.

[Mr Dangermouse]

Lol

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by internetguru)
The Taliban haven't been in power for 11 years and there is democracy. The Taliban aren't suddenly going to disappear so if we go by these standards we will never leave.

Well, there's not really democracy when parties are being suspended due to what they say: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...?newsfeed=true

With that the case, we are not leaving a free, democratic country.

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
This secondary mission will never be complete the Taliban is larger now than it was 5 years ago.

Which is why your motion is wrong. We shouldn't pull out now, but continue in our mission.

[internetguru]

(Original post by toronto353)
Which is why your motion is wrong. We shouldn't pull out now, but continue in our mission.

Our troops are out there dying and you want them to stay there indefinitely?

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
Our troops are out there dying and you want them to stay there indefinitely?

I hate the fact that our troops are dying out there, but we started a job. We went out there to make things better. If we leave now, then the Taliban will take over and Afghanistan will revert to how it was pre-2001. I may not like the fact that our troops are out there dying, but if we leave now and Afghanistan falls back into the Taliban hands then their deaths will have been in vain. If you truly supported those who have died, then you would honour them by allowing the job to be finished so that never again will British blood have to be spilled in Afghanistan. You leave now and we will have to perform the same mission again with scores more dying.

[internetguru]

(Original post by toronto353)
I hate the fact that our troops are dying out there, but we started a job. We went out there to make things better. If we leave now, then the Taliban will take over and Afghanistan will revert to how it was pre-2001. I may not like the fact that our troops are out there dying, but if we leave now and Afghanistan falls back into the Taliban hands then their deaths will have been in vain. If you truly supported those who have died, then you would honour them by allowing the job to be finished so that never again will British blood have to be spilled in Afghanistan. You leave now and we will have to perform the same mission again with scores more dying.

The Americans will still be there thus argument is invalid.

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
The Americans will still be there thus argument is invalid.

So the Americans have to die to honour our troops that have died because we couldn't be bothered to finish the job? How is that a solution to the problem? We started this job and we will finish it.

[tomcol23]

No

[internetguru]

(Original post by toronto353)
So the Americans have to die to honour our troops that have died because we couldn't be bothered to finish the job? How is that a solution to the problem? We started this job and we will finish it.

So you believe it is right to sacrifice more troops to honour those that died? The troops that died don't care about the job they just wanted to earn money to take care of themselves and their family.

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
So you believe it is right to sacrifice more troops to honour those that died? The troops that died don't care about the job they just wanted to earn money to take care of themselves and their family.

I believe that it is right that we finish the job properly not run because we can't be bothered to continue. You have a very ill-informed view of the army if you believe that many see it as just a career. The army is proud to fight for our nation.

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by internetguru)
So you believe it is right to sacrifice more troops to honour those that died? The troops that died don't care about the job they just wanted to earn money to take care of themselves and their family.

We should complete the job we started, some members of the troops may not care about the job they were doing, but to give up and leave with the job half done is a disrespect to the sacrifice they made.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
We should complete the job we started, some members of the troops may not care about the job they were doing, but to give up and leave with the job half done is a disrespect to the sacrifice they made.

The Afghan security forces are more than capable of handling the Taliban therefore job done. I don't see how it is disrespectful at all to withdraw now if they were still alive they would probably agree that it is better to withdraw and keep their friends still serving there alive.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
We should complete the job we started, some members of the troops may not care about the job they were doing, but to give up and leave with the job half done is a disrespect to the sacrifice they made.

What exactly was the job we started 11 years ago? As I seem to recall, the invasion of Afghanistan happened because America felt the need for vengence after 11 September 2001. Any notion of installing democracy and other motivations are, as the fantasy writers would say, retconned into the narrative.

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
The Afghan security forces are more than capable of handling the Taliban therefore job done. I don't see how it is disrespectful at all to withdraw now if they were still alive they would probably agree that it is better to withdraw and keep their friends still serving there alive.

They aren't. Some regions are still very turbulent. The Afghan security forces still need to be trained. It's not job done. You don't see how? Well let me show you how. Those troops have died fighting to make Afghanistan a safe democracy. If we leave now when it's neither entirely safe nor a democracy, then their deaths were in vain and that is the insult to their memories.

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by internetguru)
The Afghan security forces are more than capable of handling the Taliban therefore job done. I don't see how it is disrespectful at all to withdraw now if they were still alive they would probably agree that it is better to withdraw and keep their friends still serving there alive.

Despite reports coming in of Afghan security forces fighting against the troops?

[internetguru]

(Original post by toronto353)
They aren't. Some regions are still very turbulent. The Afghan security forces still need to be trained. It's not job done. You don't see how? Well let me show you how. Those troops have died fighting to make Afghanistan a safe democracy. If we leave now when it's neither entirely safe nor a democracy, then their deaths were in vain and that is the insult to their memories.

We have been training them for 11 year that is a second generation of troops coming through what is taking them so long to learn? They died fighting because they were made to fight as part of their job. The government killed them they didn't have to die if we hadn't taken part they would still be alive. If we leave now they will still be dead, if we stay they will still be dead and their deaths were in vain regardless of what happens. No British life is worth democracy for some dust camp.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
Despite reports coming in of Afghan security forces fighting against the troops?

Then we should probably just leave. If the people we are training are killing us then it will never be a stable democracy.

[toronto353]

(Original post by internetguru)
We have been training them for 11 year that is a second generation of troops coming through what is taking them so long to learn? They died fighting because they were made to fight as part of their job. The government killed them they didn't have to die if we hadn't taken part they would still be alive. If we leave now they will still be dead, if we stay they will still be dead and their deaths were in vain regardless of what happens. No British life is worth democracy for some dust camp.

If we leave Afghanistan a safe democracy, then their deaths weren't entirely in vain. For a lot of the time we weren't training them. The aim was to take down the Taliban so it hasn't been 11 years. I really can't believe you're that callous about their deaths.