[Shaks_Ahmed]

(Original post by Vixen47)
x

You my friend are very lucky to grow up in such a liberal enviroment. My aunt asked me a few days ago if i believed in god (after a totally different discussion) and i tried to redirect her several times and gave her wishy washy answers. Only the look of absolute horror on my cousins face (who knows I am atheist) and him mouthing 'Just say you believe' did I relent and say I believe.

He and I both knew that admitting to my atheism would have lead to very serious consequences and would cause massive discourse in the family. She probably would have used her favoured weapon of choice on me too. The wooden spoon

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by Shaks_Ahmed)
Whichever way you see it, therein lies the problem. The book has more than one meaning, so we either choose to intrepret it as either one meaning or the other. Either we take the whole book as metaphorical or literal. And once again, if we take it literally there's going to be a lot against it because of the all death and stoning. If we take it metaphorically, the who book's meaning is up for debate and the rules become less written in stone and more able to change. Which in my view would make the religion more adaptable to change but then it would take away from the fact that it was the 'absolute and unchanged word of god'

This is the hadith about the practical application of stoning.

'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

As you can see it is actually voluntary. The woman admitted her sin to the Prophet four times and four times asked to be stoned to atone for her sins and be admitted into paradise. He finally gave in to her request with great sadness after the fourth time and even then gave her 3 years to look after the child bourne from her adultery. In those three years she had the option still of not turning up but she did. The Prophet said afterwards when people mocked her "

"She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacrificed her life for Allah, the Majestic?"

That is the point of the sever punishment, not the pain itself but what it means for both person and their supreme relationship with their creator.

[notsure]

(Original post by .eXe)
Not unless they have a death wish

Whoever negs this should read post 7. I've given proof so stfu muslim neg brigade


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Is there something wrong with you, are seriously that against Islam? Gosh you need to take a break, get a KitKat mate

[notsure]

(Original post by Jiraya Sama)
Can I just ask, you was mentioning your own religion about you moving yourself away from Christianity, why did you put the word "Islam" in your thread title and "religions" in the post? Thanks

Exactly, and why is "Islam" always targeted on student room these days? There is so much negative biased media on Islam the religion as a whole!

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Harmonia Dragon)
nope young muslim is love islam, if you goto mosque you will see young people full spirit

That's because you're in a mosque.

[.eXe]

(Original post by notsure)
Is there something wrong with you, are seriously that against Islam? Gosh you need to take a break, get a KitKat mate

I'm sorry I didn't realize that if someone questions Islam's radical concepts, they automatically become against it.

Are you telling me that no one is allowed to question Islam ,or else they risk being against it? What if a muslim questions Islam? Are they automatically considered apostates or is questioning the faith allowed?

[zohaib029]

(Original post by Theoneoranro)
That doesn't answer my questions at all. Why would God put those people in hell FOREVER, that's clearly punishing them far more than they should be punished. Even 1 day in hell would be enough for someone who's killed someone seeing as how crazy that place is. You just told me how people fall for the shaytans trap, you didn't answer why they're punished to such an extent. And if they fall for the shaytans trap, doesn't that make them more innocent? No muslim has ever answered these questions, even some really knowledgeable ones.

I hope i can try. Do you think someone who's an atheist that dibelieves, ridicules the Muslim, commit crime , have sex with someone they don't even know the name too, drink , party should go to paradise after one day i he'll. When there's is a muslin peso who has had to endure such hate, islamaphobic behaviour, restraining from sex, drinking, waking at 5 in the morning to pray every day, fast for about 15 hour for a whole month, treat other fellow people nicely.
So i hope you can see this as a legitimate answer to your question.
Don't bother saying this doesn't answer anything, as i have hit the points you required answering
Thank you
Samsung > Apple

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by .eXe)
I'm sorry I didn't realize that if someone questions Islam's radical concepts, they automatically become against it.

Are you telling me that no one is allowed to question Islam ,or else they risk being against it? What if a muslim questions Islam? Are they automatically considered apostates or is questioning the faith allowed?

It's because you don't stop even when we explain everything to you. Even then you come up with even more outlandish arguments to further your thinly-veiled agenda of Islamophobia.

[Jiraya Sama]

(Original post by notsure)
Exactly, and why is "Islam" always targeted on student room these days? There is so much negative biased media on Islam the religion as a whole!

To be honest, I am surprised. Its always ISLAM. They must love Islam, have it on the tip of their tongues and every conversation. If you look at every post I have probably made, its always asking Why Islam? These people, Sigh !

Another Attack On Islam Thread~

I always click on the threads which have "Islam" on it and its usually or 9/10 times its something like this.

[SaharaDesert]

Well, yeah, there are people who abandon the beliefs of their upbringing, regardless of what they are. Though, I don't think people are leaving Islam in as great numbers as you see ex-Christians, or ex-Hindus.

And in general, I would say that the younger generation of Muslims are more into their religion, than their parents (who are more into culture). I am pretty sure there was some survey or stats to back this up, someone posted it on here once.

[Shaks_Ahmed]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
x

Several problems with your argument there:

1) We are talking about Holy Books, the hadith are the cumalative words of the prophet. Therefore not the word of Allah

2) There is no actual reference to stoning in the Quran, i just was not bothered to go through all the list of things I personally feel is wrong in the quran and summed it up as 'all the death and stoning'

3) You rediected the topic of conversation from us discussing how theists pick and choose what is metaphorical and literal when in fact you should really choose one or the other and focused on stoning

[.eXe]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
It's because you don't stop even when we explain everything to you. Even then you come up with even more outlandish arguments to further your thinly-veiled agenda of Islamophobia.

You actually explain nothing to me. Here are the typical responses:

1) You're wrong
2) You're misguided (May Allah guide you)
3) You're misinterpreting it (taking it out of context)
4) You're stupid, ignorant, Islamophobe, etc etc
5) Stop hating Islam
6) Islam is a religion of peace
7) Islam forbids killing apostates, stop spreading lies
8) Those terrorists have it wrong, they're taking everything too literally
etc, etc, etc

There is no explanation you can provide me which I haven't already heard.

On the flip side, I'll admit that many of my arguments aren't novel at all. In fact most people have the same exact issues that I have with Islam so quite obviously the arguments remain the same.

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by Shaks_Ahmed)
Several problems with your argument there:

1) We are talking about Holy Books, the hadith are the cumalative words of the prophet. Therefore not the word of Allah

2) There is no actual reference to stoning in the Quran, i just was not bothered to go through all the list of things I personally feel is wrong in the quran and summed it up as 'all the death and stoning'

3) You rediected the topic of conversation from us discussing how theists pick and choose what is metaphorical and literal when in fact you should really choose one or the other and focused on stoning

I agree that the Qur'an is an incredibly complex and beautifully crafted book which is sometimes hard to understand even when read in it's original incredible Arabic language and form let alone shoddy and poorly translations on the internet. Ultimately the Muhammad (pbuh) was the last of the prophets and as such was an example to mankind. He is the practical application of the Qur'an's message and way of life.

In Surah 21 Al Anbiyah, (The Prophets), Verse 107 we read:

“And We have not sent you but as a Mercy to the worlds.”


Surah 68 Al Qalam Verse 4 confirms the Prophet’s (S) character as beautiful and inspiring:

“And Most Certainly, thou (O Muhammad) are of most sublime and exalted character.”


Allah (S) acknowledges the responsibility of the Prophet (S) and describes this tribute beautifully in the Noble Qur’an as follows:

Surah 33 Al Ahzab, (the Clans) Verse 45/46:

”O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness and a Bearer of Good News as well as a Warner, -

“And as one who invites to Allah’s (grace) by His leave, and as a lamp spreading light.”


Surah 36 Yâ-Sîn, Verse 1-5 authenticates and confirms the Prophets (S) station:

“Yâ-Sîn

“By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-

“Thou art indeed one of the Prophets

“On a Straight Way.

“It is a Revelation sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful.”


In Surah 33 Al Ahzab (The Clans) Verse 56 Allah (S) declares:

“Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O you who believe! Send your blessings on him too, and salute him with all respect.”

[notsure]

(Original post by .eXe)
I'm sorry I didn't realize that if someone questions Islam's radical concepts, they automatically become against it.

Are you telling me that no one is allowed to question Islam ,or else they risk being against it? What if a muslim questions Islam? Are they automatically considered apostates or is questioning the faith allowed?

By the way your writing you seem to have a lot of hatred. The thing with you is that you don't translate what was written in the Quran 1400 years ago into today's understandings. You've got to take that information and put it in a 21st century scenario! Why do you think the bibles been changed so many times? Because the want to adjust what people tried to learn then into today's prospective. This is what you have to do with the Quran but without changing its meanings and morals!

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by .eXe)
You actually explain nothing to me. Here are the typical responses:

1) You're wrong
2) You're misguided (May Allah guide you)
3) You're misinterpreting it (taking it out of context)
4) You're stupid, ignorant, Islamophobe, etc etc
5) Stop hating Islam
6) Islam is a religion of peace
7) Islam forbids killing apostates, stop spreading lies
8) Those terrorists have it wrong, they're taking everything too literally
etc, etc, etc

There is no explanation you can provide me which I haven't already heard.

On the flip side, I'll admit that many of my arguments aren't novel at all. In fact most people have the same exact issues that I have with Islam so quite obviously the arguments remain the same.

If you've already arrived at a personal stalemate then why do you keep pestering if not to mock Islam as much as you possibly can. As a you are a Christian and a fellow person of the books I am thoroughly disappointed in your bizarre and obvious attacks on Islam which serve no purpose but to indulge in your own deep and insecure prejudices (perhaps about your own religion)?

[notsure]

Exactly, and why is "Islam" always targeted on student room these days? There is so much negative biased media on Islam the religion as a whole!

[Shaks_Ahmed]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
Ultimately the Muhammad (pbuh) was the last of the prophets and as such was an example to mankind. He is the practical application of the Qur'an's message and way of life.

If that is true, you imply that the Hadith superceed the Quran no? Because in the quran the penalty for adultry is between 80-100 lashes depending on gender. But in the hadith it has become stoning to death.

The other implication that you could be saying is we take the Hadith literally and the Quran metaphorically. In that case the whole book is up for debate.

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by Shaks_Ahmed)
If that is true, you imply that the Hadith superceed the Quran no? Because in the quran the penalty for adultry is between 80-100 lashes depending on gender. But in the hadith it has become stoning to death.

The other implication that you could be saying is we take the Hadith literally and the Quran metaphorically. In that case the whole book is up for debate.

No no no.

For drunkeness from alcohol the punishment is 80 lashes. You've got two punishments completely mixed up.

I never said that the hadith supercedes the Qur'an. I'm saying that the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) is the practical application of the Qur'an and explains many of the ambiguities regarding how to practice Islam and such.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
If you've already arrived at a personal stalemate then why do you keep pestering if not to mock Islam as much as you possibly can. As a you are a Christian and a fellow person of the books I am thoroughly disappointed in your bizarre and obvious attacks on Islam which serve no purpose but to indulge in your own deep and insecure prejudices (perhaps about your own religion)?

My aim is to show muslims that the religion they think they are following is not what it appears to be. Islam is not a religion of peace. Not inherently. Muslims can be peaceful. But islam, if followed to the T is violent and oppressive.


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[Spaz Man]

(Original post by .eXe)
My aim is to show muslims that the religion they think they are following is not what it appears to be. Islam is not a religion of peace. Not inherently. Muslims can be peaceful. But islam, if followed to the T is violent and oppressive.


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I never said Islam is the religion of peace. It's the one true religion and way of life and harsh practicalities and limits come with that as much as humanity doesn't like it even if it's for their own benefit. But neither is it "violent or oppressive" as you claim.