[lucaf]

wait, how do private schools lower the standard of state education?

but if I were in that position, I don't know. I would rather my children went to a decent grammar school, and I could get them tutors if they needed extra help. I just prefer the atmosphere in grammars, they are still pushed hard, but they also meet people from different backgrounds. if they were unable to get into a grammar school though, I would send them to a private school.

[M^2012]

It's quite clear that this thread will never ever reach a conclusion. There's arguments for each of the statements in the OP, and they're both as right as each other.

My views on public schools:
Public schools give students more confidence, self belief etc, and also the teachers have more of a reason to do everything that they can to get students to do as well as possible. Therefore, of course students will do better if they go to public schools, it isn't just that state school students don't try as much.

Ideally, everybody should start on a level playing field, this would benefit society as well as satisfy morality, as then the best people would get the best jobs [No, don't ask me to define "best"].

Of course, I don't know which academic system could achieve this, but that doesn't mean that we should not be constantly striving to improve the system to get it as close to the ideal as possible. Anybody who stands in the way of this equality is selfish, in my opinion, never mind the individual parents.

[TenOfThem]

Not selfish either way

Teachers in Private Schools are often paid less than teachers in State Schools

[Torpedo Fish]

(Original post by im so academic)
Then what's your solution?

If everyone sent their children to state school, the government would need to build new schools, hire new teachers etc etc and this is estimated to be worth billions of pounds.

Well firstly I would propose that existing independent schools be nationalised rather than building new schools. Additionally, the current staff would have the option of keeping their jobs, all-be-it on reduced salaries.

I would anticipate that monetary donations from the kinds of pushy middle-class parents who used to send their children to independent schools would soar. Many middle-class parents care passionately about their children's education, that is why they choose to invest large sums of money in sending them to private schools in the first place, in some cases at considerable sacrifice to their own standard of living. If independent schools were no longer permitted, these parents are not going to suddenly stop caring about the quality of education their children receive. I therefore postulate that they would take whatever action necessary in order ensure that quality, including making gift donations to their child's state school.

As you have already touched on, this would very likely create a new set problems, for example schools in affluent areas would very probably receive much more in the way of donations than schools in poorer areas, which would subsequently derive a new two tier system. However, this could be mediated by the introduction of a system by which 60% of donations go directly to the school of the donee's choice, whilst 40% could be placed into a national education trust, which would subsequently distribute money according to need.

[im so academic]

(Original post by Torpedo Fish)
Well firstly I would propose that existing independent schools be nationalised rather than building new schools. Additionally, the current staff would have the option of keeping their jobs, all-be-it on reduced salaries.

Students who attend the recently-converted private-to-state schools may have better facilities.

I would anticipate that monetary donations from the kinds of pushy middle-class parents who used to send their children to independent schools would soar.

I anticipate it wouldn't.

Many middle-class parents care passionately about their children's education, that is why they choose to invest large sums of money in sending them to private schools in the first place, in some cases at considerable sacrifice to their own standard of living. If independent schools were no longer permitted, these parents are not going to suddenly stop caring about the quality of education their children receive. I therefore postulate that they would take whatever action necessary in order ensure that quality, including making gift donations to their child's state school.

No, they would spend it on tutoring or use it to educate their kids abroad.

As you have already touched on, this would very likely create a new set problems, for example schools in affluent areas would very probably receive much more in the way of donations than schools in poorer areas, which would subsequently derive a new two tier system. However, this could be mediated by the introduction of a system by which 60% of donations go directly to the school of the donee's choice, whilst 40% could be placed into a national education trust, which would subsequently distribute money according to need.

Which may put people off donating.

[callum9999]

(Original post by Iron Lady)
The way you can prevent that is by parenting.

What a way to generalise! There are snobs at state schools.

Of course there are. Your point?

I have yet to come across a person who has gone through private schooling who hasn't complained about the number of snobs there are and how stuck up everyone is. I didn't say everyone in private schools were snobs though - you made that up. I'm sure there are thousands who aren't...

[Genocidal]

If I had the ability to send my child to a private school. Do you want to know why? Because for one I don't care what you think of me for doing so. And secondly, what the hell has it got to do with anyone else?

[Jelkin]

(Original post by gm15)
BS.
Surely the most passionate teachers wouldn't be in it for the money and therefore wouldn't (for the most part) be swayed by the private school wages. Also they'd see state school kids as more deserving.

Passion =/= saintliness.

In fact, passion =/= teaching skill, even if it does make a teacher more inspiring.

[Iron Lady]

(Original post by callum9999)
Of course there are. Your point?

I have yet to come across a person who has gone through private schooling who hasn't complained about the number of snobs there are and how stuck up everyone is. I didn't say everyone in private schools were snobs though - you made that up. I'm sure there are thousands who aren't...

My point was that those people aren't confined just to private schools.

You were implying that a private school environment would encourage your children to be "snobs". When actually it depends on the individual and the parents involved.

[Torpedo Fish]

(Original post by im so academic)
Students who attend the recently-converted private-to-state schools may have better facilities.

Initially, yes.

(Original post by im so academic)
No, they would spend it on tutoring or use it to educate their kids abroad.

Which may put people off donating.

I've responded to these points in the other thread.

[barnetlad]

What I would not wish to do is send a child to a boarding school.

[callum9999]

(Original post by Iron Lady)
My point was that those people aren't confined just to private schools.

You were implying that a private school environment would encourage your children to be "snobs". When actually it depends on the individual and the parents involved.

I think it's fairly obvious that you are far more likely to become a "snob" by going to private school (many of them boarding there) than in state school. Of course the parents and individual play a part but school plays an enormous role (possibly the biggest) in shaping your personality and general manner.

The exact reason why many people send their kids to private school in the first place I'd imagine.

[Mr Dangermouse]

I'd rather send them to state school and spend the cash on holidays and what not, so I guess that would make me selfish not to.



***Note that private schools don't make state schools worse as the OP insinuates, they reduce the population burden to the state

[Old Father Time]

Sate schools are all well and good, but I think they leave a lot of young people out. What I mean by that is, sure some students are pushed, but not enough. In college, everyone is pushed to do their best, in school, this is not the case and many schools are happy for students to receive C/D grades. Not that they're bad grades, just that I think many students could achieve more if they put extra effort in that doesn't really get put in until college. Whereas in a private school, smaller classes and fees ensure that hard work is put it, and its harder to become distracted. Its a tough one, but I think that if I could afford it, an independent school would be more beneficial for my child.

[Octohedral]

(Original post by Torpedo Fish)
I would anticipate that monetary donations from the kinds of pushy middle-class parents who used to send their children to independent schools would soar.

This simply wouldn't happen - why would a pushy middle class parent voluntarily spend money on other peoples' kids? As unfair as it is, wealth will always give you advantages - the only way you can stop this is communism (which may or may not be a valid proposal, I'm just saying it's the only proposal that will have a chance). There are plenty more ways than school to get a good education.

(Original post by callum9999)
I have yet to come across a person who has gone through private schooling who hasn't complained about the number of snobs there are and how stuck up everyone is. I didn't say everyone in private schools were snobs though - you made that up. I'm sure there are thousands who aren't...

Me

Practically nobody at my school was stuck up. Having had experience of both types, I'd say there were exactly the same amount of private school kids who looked down on state school kids as there were state school kids who looked down on private school kids - if anything more of the latter. Both were very much in the minority.

[-chiquitita]

I know a few people at public schools, and they seem to have a much better work ethos than at my state school. All my life I've been made to feel like a geek for working hard, being clever and getting good exam results, whereas in the private sector this seems to be more actively encouraged.

Of course, this view could be incredibly biased, given that it's based on the experience of friends at a school with an entrance exam - perhaps the focus on work is more to do with general higher academic ability of the pupils, rather than the fact it's a fee paying school.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Alexandra's Box)
Make them work at a state school. If they work hard enough, they can get there, where they want to be - and they know they've done it all themselves with no advantage except their attitude.

Jesus christ.

Big time facepalm.

[somethingbeautiful]

(Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
Growing up in a state school, if I had the money I'd send my kids to a state school, no brainer.

I'm pretty much of this view too.

I can see the arguments against it very clearly, but at the same time I really don't see the point of putting my kids (if I have any) through the same thing that I went through if it's not necessary. I would just want the best for them and wouldn't want to deny them of something just because I couldn't have it. By the same token, I never envied people at private schools - I didn't know any/had never encountered a privately educated people my age and there were no private schools where I lived so that whole notion of people having a better education never even occurred to me. I didn't even think about it until I was at uni and actually met privately educated people.

So I don't think I would deny a child private education just because other children don't get it - I was in their shoes once and at the time it wasn't an issue for me. It's only as I've got older that I've started to consider it.

[Vian]

I think I'd personally send them to public schools, as work ethic is the main contributing factor to success and can be developed without enormous funds. Besides, their are tons of perfectly good public schools so why bother paying when you can get similar opportunities for cheaper?

(Original post by gm15)
BS.
Surely the most passionate teachers wouldn't be in it for the money and therefore wouldn't (for the most part) be swayed by the private school wages. Also they'd see state school kids as more deserving.

I'm no expert, but surely the most passionate teachers wish to provide whatever pupils they have the best education possible, not to provide education to the "unfortunate poor kids in public schools". If one school pays them more to do what they love, then why wouldn't they go for it? As Jelkin said, "Passion =/= saintliness."

(Original post by callum9999)
I think it's fairly obvious that you are far more likely to become a "snob" by going to private school (many of them boarding there) than in state school. Of course the parents and individual play a part but school plays an enormous role (possibly the biggest) in shaping your personality and general manner.

I could not disagree more. Why would you be more of a snob by attending a private school? Just having wealth doesn't make you a snob. Just having better opportunities won't just convince you you're better than everyone else. I think parents play a much larger role in shaping personality than schools, but I suppose neither of us can really prove our points beyond mere anecdotes.

[Nistar]

My brother, sister and I have all attended private schools and when I compare the behaviour of my brother/sister in comparison to pupils the same age as them that have attended state schools, there is a stark contrast. Because private schools tend to be smaller, the attention focussed on one single child is much greater and the discipline is easier to enforce, overall bringing up well-mannered children.
Obviously I'm not saying all kids that go to state schools are going to turn out to be mindless yobs, but I think private schools (from my own experience of private AND state schools) provide a much nicer environment for a pupil to be in.
And believe it or not, a majority aren't actually 'snobs'

If I could afford to send my children private, without a doubt I would.