[.eXe]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
Quote the verse.

Hope you can read arabic

Spoiler:

Show

But if not here is the translation: They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they come for Allah's cause. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by .eXe)
Hope you can read arabic

Spoiler:

Show

But if not here is the translation: They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they come for Allah's cause. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

Did you read the verse right after that?


Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

or the one after that?

Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

or two verses later

O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah , investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace "You are not a believer," aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before; then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

Stop quoting out of context, If Islam was half what you say it was then no one would be alive anymore from the vast amount of beheadings and suicide bombings.

and when we show you that it is against our Religion.


When we say, No we don't do that, from what we understand from the hadith and the Qur'an that is forbidden for us.

You actually tell us we are lying? This is how Majority of those who call themselves Muslims Believe.


They never accept murder or beheading for leaving Islam, they would never accept rape or honor killing.

They would never accept suicide and killing of innocents.

Yet you go to these same people and claim otherwise? What do you think it makes them feel? Annoyed? Disrespected?

Do you not read your own bible? Christians are supposed to kill all jews, and Jesus said anyone who does not believe in me bring him before me and kill him now.

Or is it just because the spotlight is on Islam? Or do you have no knowledge of your own holy book?

I'll quote 1000 absurdities in the bible, Genesis, Songs of Songs (A.K.A Porno) and all your other books which were compiled by Constantine who is not God and does not know which books were from him since he didn't accept to add other popular books of Christianity in his compliment because it did not agree with his seek for power.

Lets turn the spotlight on your Religion/Deen now, and by page 20 we'll all know which religion makes more sense.

One that Trusts that Paul, John, Matthew, Luke and the compilers of the bible to have accurately give them the word of God, unedited unchanged.

Yet scientists see the Bible is a fairy tale with it's unscientific nature.

Or how many verses like the songs of songs, teach things that are not only dirty, but contradicting the commandments and other verses.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
Did you read the verse right after that?


Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

Uh, how does this verse change anything? It says to not fight with those who have a treaty with muslims or those who come and beg the muslims not to fight them. How does that change the prior verse in any way??? The unbelievers who don't have a treaty or who don't beg the muslims to stop fighting them, are still screwed.

or the one after that?

Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

Again lol, how does this verse change anything! It's asking muslims to slay people who do not give them guarantees of peace. Additionally, it asks muslims to slay those people who try to convert muslims into their religion. All these verses are making the situation worse for you lol....

or two verses later

O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah , investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace "You are not a believer," aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before; then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

Okay this verse says to not call unbelievers who ask for peace out as unbelievers, because it reminds muslims that they were unbelievers too. Okay fine...don't call people as unbelievers if they ask for peace. But how does this change the fact that just 2-3 verses ago...muslims are asked to fight (and even slay) unbelievers??

Are you telling me that the later verses somehow negate the prior verses? If that's true then the quran has abrogation. Is this true? Most muslims will deny this....

Stop quoting out of context

I haven't quoted out of context. The verses you posted just give some exceptions to those who you shouldn't fight or kill.

BAsically the first 3 verses tell you all the people who you should kill and fight, but give a few exceptions. The exceptions are : people who make peace or treaty with you and people who beg you to stop fighting them.

But what about the people who haven't made a treaty with you? What about people who havent begged you to stop fighting them?

Answer is: you are asked to fight and kill them all! How can you not see this buddy...it's so clear in the quotes!

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by .eXe)
Uh, how does this verse change anything? It says to not fight with those who have a treaty with muslims or those who come and beg the muslims not to fight them. How does that change the prior verse in any way??? The unbelievers who don't have a treaty or who don't beg the muslims to stop fighting them, are still screwed.



Again lol, how does this verse change anything! It's asking muslims to slay people who do not give them guarantees of peace. Additionally, it asks muslims to slay those people who try to convert muslims into their religion. All these verses are making the situation worse for you lol....



Okay this verse says to not call unbelievers who ask for peace out as unbelievers, because it reminds muslims that they were unbelievers too. Okay fine...don't call people as unbelievers if they ask for peace. But how does this change the fact that just 2-3 verses ago...muslims are asked to fight (and even slay) unbelievers??

Are you telling me that the later verses somehow negate the prior verses? If that's true then the quran has abrogation. Is this true? Most muslims will deny this....



I haven't quoted out of context. The verses you posted just give some exceptions to those who you shouldn't fight or kill.

BAsically the first 3 verses tell you all the people who you should kill and fight, but give a few exceptions. The exceptions are : people who make peace or treaty with you and people who beg you to stop fighting them.

But what about the people who haven't made a treaty with you? What about people who havent begged you to stop fighting them?

Answer is: you are asked to fight and kill them all! How can you not see this buddy...it's so clear in the quotes!

Yes you have.

The above verses mean those who ask for peace, those who have a treaty and those who just do not want to war.

Not just, treaty and beggars.

But believe whatever you want to believe, and you didn't reply to everything else I said.

[Truthman]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
It's fight not kill.

This applies to those in Muslim lands and those who seek to destroy Islam A.K.A America :P

It's fight not kill.

What does QATLIU mean?

The root of the arabic word QaTiLu is 'QTL' which means kill. This is why ahmed ali translated the word QATILU as "fight/kill" which is actually a very good translation of the arabic word QATILU and its meaning.

I asked a bunch of muslims what the word QATILU means, they said it means fight, by the ones whom arabic is their mother tongue said "QATILU means do battle with them on the battlefield". What happens on a battlefield? > people are killed.


To understand what the word qātilū means, one needs to recognize that it is based upon a root q-t-l which means ‘kill’. From this root several other Arabic words are formed for example qatala ‘kill, murder’; qatīl ‘someone killed, a casualty’; qatl ‘homicide’; maqtal ‘vital spot on the body (injuring which brings death)’.

When Sura 9:29 is translated as ‘Fight the People of the Book’, without any qualification, this misleads English speaking readers. Clearer might be ‘Engage in a deadly fight with the People of the Book‘.
http://sheikyermami.com/2011/06/24/d...n-translation/

Here is another accurate translation of the word QATILU:

Make war [QATILU] upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. John Medows Rodwell .

This applies to those in Muslim lands and those who seek to destroy Islam A.K.A America

It applies to anyone who doesnt believe in muhumamds allah full stop!

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by Truthman)
What does QATLIU mean?

The root of the arabic word QaTiLu is 'QTL' which means kill. This is why ahmed ali translated the word QATILU as "fight/kill" which is actually a very good translation of the arabic word QATILU and its meaning.

I asked a bunch of muslims what the word QATILU means, they said it means fight, by the ones whom arabic is their mother tongue said "QATILU means do battle with them on the battlefield". What happens on a battlefield? > people are killed.


To understand what the word qātilū means, one needs to recognize that it is based upon a root q-t-l which means ‘kill’. From this root several other Arabic words are formed for example qatala ‘kill, murder’; qatīl ‘someone killed, a casualty’; qatl ‘homicide’; maqtal ‘vital spot on the body (injuring which brings death)’.

When Sura 9:29 is translated as ‘Fight the People of the Book’, without any qualification, this misleads English speaking readers. Clearer might be ‘Engage in a deadly fight with the People of the Book‘.
http://sheikyermami.com/2011/06/24/dr-mark-durie-islam’s-text-is-sugar-coated-in-translation/

Here is another accurate translation of the word QATILU:

Make war [QATILU] upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. John Medows Rodwell .



It applies to anyone who doesnt believe in muhumamds allah full stop!

and how can you make such a claim when obviously the continuation of Surat al Nisa 4:89 to 4:92 examples EXCEPT those who want peace, when an enemy makes a treaty, and those who won't fight back (surrender or refuse to fight) If you only understood that Islam isn't trying to take over the world.


Yes, we want everyone to know what Islam is A-Z not covered up to make it sound nice , but what did Christianity do?

Enslaved and killed millions in the name of God Almighty to spread "the word of Jesus"

and unlike the Qur'an which has verses explaining on what conditions are we allowed to war/kill a fellow human being,

the bible does not, Jesus (in the bible) Says that bring all my enemies before me who do not believe in me and kill them.

Are we calling Christians terrorists now?

[.eXe]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
and how can you make such a claim when obviously the continuation of Surat al Nisa 4:89 to 4:92 examples EXCEPT those who want peace, when an enemy makes a treaty, and those who won't fight back (surrender or refuse to fight) If you only understood that Islam isn't trying to take over the world.


Yes, we want everyone to know what Islam is A-Z not covered up to make it sound nice , but what did Christianity do?

Enslaved and killed millions in the name of God Almighty to spread "the word of Jesus"

and unlike the Qur'an which has verses explaining on what conditions are we allowed to war/kill a fellow human being,

the bible does not, Jesus (in the bible) Says that bring all my enemies before me who do not believe in me and kill them.

Are we calling Christians terrorists now?

Um I've already responded to that. Just because the verse provides a few exceptions doesn't make it right.

for example, let's say there was a verse which said...kill all pregnant women, but provided an exception for women who had been pregnant for more than 7 months. Does that mean the verse is good all of a sudden?

No!

because the women who have been pregnant under 7 months are still going to get killed!

That's the same thing the Quran is doing.

It justifies killing unbelievers, unless they make peace or beg the muslims to stop fighting. If those two things don't happen, the Quran asks muslims to fight and "slay" unbelievers. I'm sorry there is no going around it, I provided ample explanations on this yesterday...

[Truthman]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
and how can you make such a claim when obviously the continuation of Surat al Nisa 4:89 to 4:92 examples EXCEPT those who want peace, when an enemy makes a treaty, and those who won't fight back (surrender or refuse to fight) If you only understood that Islam isn't trying to take over the world.


Yes, we want everyone to know what Islam is A-Z not covered up to make it sound nice , but what did Christianity do?

Enslaved and killed millions in the name of God Almighty to spread "the word of Jesus"

and unlike the Qur'an which has verses explaining on what conditions are we allowed to war/kill a fellow human being,

the bible does not, Jesus (in the bible) Says that bring all my enemies before me who do not believe in me and kill them.

Are we calling Christians terrorists now?

and how can you make such a claim when obviously the continuation of Surat al Nisa 4:89 to 4:92 examples

I can make such a claim because the verse in question is sura 9.29. Sura 9 was revealed later than sura 4 and is therefore one of the final words from your god allah about what to do with those who “disbelieve in allah”.

Concerning the verses you mentioned:

TAFSIR AL JALALAYN sura 4.90:
Except those who attach themselves to, [who] seek refuge with, a people between whom and you there is a covenant, a pledge of security for them and for whoever attaches himself to them, in the manner of the Prophet’s (s) covenant with Hilāl b. ‘Uwaymir al-Aslamī; or, those who, come to you with their breasts constricted, dejected, about the prospect of fighting you, [being] on the side of their people, or fighting their people, siding with you, in other words, [those who come to you] refraining from fighting either you or them, then do not interfere with them, neither taking them as captives nor slaying them: this statement and what follows was abrogated by the ‘sword’ http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2verse.tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSo raNo=2&tAyahNo=190&tDisplay=yes& UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ‘those who’) and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. . 60.8 Tafsir al jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

EXCEPT those who want peace, when an enemy makes a treaty, and those who won't fight back (surrender or refuse to fight)

Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty. M. M. Pickthall

Tasfsir Al Jalalayn sura 47.3:
So do not falter, [do not] be weak, and [do not] call for peace (read salm or silm), that is to say, a truce with the disbelievers should you encounter them, when you have the upper hand (al-a‘lawna: the third letter of the triliteral root, wāw, has been omitted), [when you are] the victors, the vanquishers, and God is with you, helping and assisting, and He will not stint you, diminish you, in [the reward for] your works, that is to say, of the reward for them. http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2

Suni Imam Moustafa Zayed corrupting Quran in a live debate with The Deception of Allah Author.

If you only understood that Islam isn't trying to take over the world.

TORONTO - An Islamic bookstore in east Toronto is selling books that urge Muslims to usurp the Western world and install an Islamic State in its place.The books, written by deceased Islamic scholar Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi – are available at the Islamic Circle of North America bookstore in Scarborough.“Islam wishes to destroy all States and Governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and programme of Islam regardless of the country or the Nation that rules it,” Maududi wrote in Jihad in Islam. “Islam requires the earth – not just a portion – but the whole planet.”Maududi was an influential Pakistani journalist, theologian and Muslim revivalist leader who wrote more than 120 books and pamphlets and lived from 1903 to 1979. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/30...ale-in-toronto

And fight/kill (Qatilu) them until (there) be no misguidance/betrayal , and the religion, all of it be to Allah, 8:39 Ahmed Ali

Yes, we want everyone to know what Islam is A-Z not covered up to make it sound nice ,

Muslims cannot handle non Muslims knowing the “A-Z” of islam.

but what did Christianity do?
Enslaved and killed millions in the name of God Almighty to spread "the word of Jesus"

For a start, killing, enslaving and conquering nation by the sword is not a thing which is taught in the bible. This is strictly an islamic thing endorsed by the koran.

Bernard Lewis has also, in my view correctly, suggested that the concept of "Holy War" was originally alien to Christianity and was imported to Europe after Europeans had been confronted with Islamic Jihad. http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3017

"In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or force. The other religious groups (Christianity and Judaism) did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty to them, save only for purposes of defense. (Ibn Khaldun, The Muqadimmah: Ail Introduction to History, Islamic historian, 1377 AD) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun#On_the_Jews

and unlike the Qur'an which has verses explaining on what conditions are we allowed to war/kill a fellow human being,

There you go, islam is also about killing human beings for religious purposes so therefore cannot be “a religion of peace”. The other religions have no such teachings about how to wage war against unbelievers and how to enslave them.

the bible does not, Jesus (in the bible) Says that bring all my enemies before me who do not believe in me and kill them.

No, Jesus is telling a parable, in this parable jesus is saying a noble man said “bring mine enemies”, at the time jesus said this he had enemies, yet no one brought anyone to jesus to slay them in front of him, because they understood it was a parable. If this was what jesus taught, how comes none of his known enemies were murdered by the disciples at any time?

Are we calling Christians terrorists now?

Call them what you like, but a real Christian follows jesus and what jesus taught, any Christian who does the opposite to what jesus taught can never claim in reality that they follow jesus, that’s the difference.

The Koran instructs Muslims to follow muhummads example:

“You have had a good example in allah's Messenger for whosoever hopes for God and the Last Day, and remembers allah.” Q. 33:21 http://answering-islam.org/authors/alfadi/jihad.html

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR. Bukhari (Book #52, Hadith #220) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by .eXe)
Um I've already responded to that. Just because the verse provides a few exceptions doesn't make it right.

for example, let's say there was a verse which said...kill all pregnant women, but provided an exception for women who had been pregnant for more than 7 months. Does that mean the verse is good all of a sudden?

No!

because the women who have been pregnant under 7 months are still going to get killed!

That's the same thing the Quran is doing.

It justifies killing unbelievers, unless they make peace or beg the muslims to stop fighting. If those two things don't happen, the Quran asks muslims to fight and "slay" unbelievers. I'm sorry there is no going around it, I provided ample explanations on this yesterday...

You are honestly a fool.

It justifies killing in self-defense be it a Believer or non-believer.

and it says there is no acceptance in killing unbelievers if the situation doesn't fit what was explained.


If that pregnant women was about to kill you and you could do nothing at all except fight back than do so.

Stop trying to demonize Islam when the same can be done to your religion.

Lets say you were in my place? And you believe now what you believe and the people who are muslims and jews quote verses of the bible both in and out of context and insult your religion openly and demonize it.

What would you do?

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by Truthman)
I can make such a claim because the verse in question is sura 9.29. Sura 9 was revealed later than sura 4 and is therefore one of the final words from your god allah about what to do with those who “disbelieve in allah”.

Concerning the verses you mentioned:

TAFSIR AL JALALAYN sura 4.90:
Except those who attach themselves to, [who] seek refuge with, a people between whom and you there is a covenant, a pledge of security for them and for whoever attaches himself to them, in the manner of the Prophet’s (s) covenant with Hilāl b. ‘Uwaymir al-Aslamī; or, those who, come to you with their breasts constricted, dejected, about the prospect of fighting you, [being] on the side of their people, or fighting their people, siding with you, in other words, [those who come to you] refraining from fighting either you or them, then do not interfere with them, neither taking them as captives nor slaying them: this statement and what follows was abrogated by the ‘sword’ http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2verse.tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSo raNo=2&tAyahNo=190&tDisplay=yes& UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ‘those who’) and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. . 60.8 Tafsir al jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2




Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty. M. M. Pickthall

Tasfsir Al Jalalayn sura 47.3:
So do not falter, [do not] be weak, and [do not] call for peace (read salm or silm), that is to say, a truce with the disbelievers should you encounter them, when you have the upper hand (al-a‘lawna: the third letter of the triliteral root, wāw, has been omitted), [when you are] the victors, the vanquishers, and God is with you, helping and assisting, and He will not stint you, diminish you, in [the reward for] your works, that is to say, of the reward for them. http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2

Suni Imam Moustafa Zayed corrupting Quran in a live debate with The Deception of Allah Author.





TORONTO - An Islamic bookstore in east Toronto is selling books that urge Muslims to usurp the Western world and install an Islamic State in its place.The books, written by deceased Islamic scholar Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi – are available at the Islamic Circle of North America bookstore in Scarborough.“Islam wishes to destroy all States and Governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and programme of Islam regardless of the country or the Nation that rules it,” Maududi wrote in Jihad in Islam. “Islam requires the earth – not just a portion – but the whole planet.”Maududi was an influential Pakistani journalist, theologian and Muslim revivalist leader who wrote more than 120 books and pamphlets and lived from 1903 to 1979. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/30...ale-in-toronto

And fight/kill (Qatilu) them until (there) be no misguidance/betrayal , and the religion, all of it be to Allah, 8:39 Ahmed Ali



Muslims cannot handle non Muslims knowing the “A-Z” of islam.




For a start, killing, enslaving and conquering nation by the sword is not a thing which is taught in the bible. This is strictly an islamic thing endorsed by the koran.

Bernard Lewis has also, in my view correctly, suggested that the concept of "Holy War" was originally alien to Christianity and was imported to Europe after Europeans had been confronted with Islamic Jihad. http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3017

"In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or force. The other religious groups (Christianity and Judaism) did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty to them, save only for purposes of defense. (Ibn Khaldun, The Muqadimmah: Ail Introduction to History, Islamic historian, 1377 AD) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun#On_the_Jews



There you go, islam is also about killing human beings for religious purposes so therefore cannot be “a religion of peace”. The other religions have no such teachings about how to wage war against unbelievers and how to enslave them.


No, Jesus is telling a parable, in this parable jesus is saying a noble man said “bring mine enemies”, at the time jesus said this he had enemies, yet no one brought anyone to jesus to slay them in front of him, because they understood it was a parable. If this was what jesus taught, how comes none of his known enemies were murdered by the disciples at any time?


Call them what you like, but a real Christian follows jesus and what jesus taught, any Christian who does the opposite to what jesus taught can never claim in reality that they follow jesus, that’s the difference.

The Koran instructs Muslims to follow muhummads example:

“You have had a good example in allah's Messenger for whosoever hopes for God and the Last Day, and remembers allah.” Q. 33:21 http://answering-islam.org/authors/alfadi/jihad.html

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR. Bukhari (Book #52, Hadith #220) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Kk


I guess than I am supposed to kill you, come by my place later

oh and all muslims all over Britain and the middle east find non-believers on the streets and we chop off their heads, based on that verse you quoted

We as muslims agree that Allah tells us to kill you all and rid the world from unbelieving scum!!

JIHAD!!!


HAPPY NOW? because that is exactly what you believe.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
It justifies killing in self-defense be it a Believer or non-believer.

Um buddy this is your interpretation. There is nothing in those 3 specific verses that says anything even close to "self defence"

You're making that up.

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by .eXe)
Um buddy this is your interpretation. There is nothing in those 3 specific verses that says anything even close to "self defence"

You're making that up.

There is nothing in those verses about taking over the world forcing Shaira law on everyone or killing innocents.

You're making that up.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Mohamad_Muslim)
There is nothing in those verses about taking over the world forcing Shaira law on everyone or killing innocents.

You're making that up.

I know you're feeling the pressure now but can you at least not lie in public?

When did I say anything about taking over the world? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I have shown two times how those verses have everything to do with killing unbelievers. If you are too blind to see that, no problem. But if your only defence is to throw my own words back at me then unfortunately this discussion is long over.

-[Posted via mobile app]-

[Blackshadow]

(Original post by .eXe)
I believe Allah isn't a real God but rather a creation of Mohammad.

This guy's a clown lmao.

[Vortexbubbles]

Same God. Different "upbringings"

Muhummad was a war-mongering pedofile, Moses was a wise savior and Jesus was a nice guy.

I Know which book(s) i would prefer.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Blackshadow)
This guy's a clown lmao.

I'm not the only one with that belief lol. Think about it, he came up all of a sudden, pretty much out of nowhere. There was no prophecy about him, no prior prophet said anything, he wasn't mentioned anywhere. He sort of just...appeared. And this apparently, was God's most important prophet...so important that he was the last one and with the most important prophet.

Yet Jesus, who apparently wasn't as important was prophesied about, was written and spoken about for millenia before he came, performed innumerable miracles, died, resurrected...but apparently he wasn't the important one

[Mohamad_Muslim]

(Original post by .eXe)
I'm not the only one with that belief lol. Think about it, he came up all of a sudden, pretty much out of nowhere. There was no prophecy about him, no prior prophet said anything, he wasn't mentioned anywhere. He sort of just...appeared. And this apparently, was God's most important prophet...so important that he was the last one and with the most important prophet.

Yet Jesus, who apparently wasn't as important was prophesied about, was written and spoken about for millenia before he came, performed innumerable miracles, died, resurrected...but apparently he wasn't the important one

Jesus mentioned someone coming after him with the last feast.

He spoke about a Man who would say what he hears etc.

Thus he was mentioned and he did just appear. and thus Mohammad's coming was mentioned (in the bible) John 14:16

See? I told you that you did not even know your own holy book.

Up to the time of Jesus (peace be upon him), the Israelites were still awaiting for that prophet like unto Moses prophecied in Deuteronomy 18:18. When John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said “no”. They asked him if he was Elias and he said “no”. Then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him “Art thou that Prophet” and he answered, “no”. (John 1: 1 9-2 1).

In the Gospel according to John (Chapters 14, 15, 16) Jesus spoke of the “Paraclete” or comforter who will come after him, who will be sent by Father as another Paraclete, who will teach new things which the contemporaries of Jesus could not bear. While the Paraclete is described as the spirit of truth, (whose meaning resemble Muhammad’s famous title Al-Amin, the trustworthy), he is identified in one verse as the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). Such a designation is however inconsistent with the profile of that Paraclete. In the words of the Dictionary of the Bible, (Ed. J. Mackenzie) “These items, it must be admitted do not give an entirely coherent picture.”

Indeed history tells us that many early Christians understood the Paraclete to be a man and not a spirit. This might explain the followings who responded to some who claimed, without meeting the criteria stipulated by Jesus, to be the awaited “Paraclete”

It was Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) who was the Paraclete, Comforter, helper, admonisher sent by God after Jesus. He testified of Jesus, taught new things which could not be borne at Jesus’ time, he spoke what he heard (revelation), he dwells with the believers (through his well-preserved teachings). Such teachings will remain forever because he was the last messenger of God, the only Universal Messenger to unite the whole of humanity under God and on the path of PRESERVED truth. He told of many things to come which “came to pass” in the minutest detail meeting, the criterion given by Moses to distinguish between the true prophet and the false prophets (Deuteronomy 18:22). He did reprove the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgement (John 16:8-11)

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by .eXe)
Hope you can read arabic

Spoiler:

Show

But if not here is the translation: They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they come for Allah's cause. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

Have you never heard of Tafseer? Have you never thought to read the whole Qur'an? Do you not understand the meaning of the Qur'an, yet profess the meaning of a select line?

Oh wait.. you're banned. Well I hope if you graduate you don't become my doctor.. I don't want someone who thinks a child can be begotten by an entity unlike him and be his own father etc. to prescribe me drugs. That's dangerous.

[Cephalus]

(Original post by InvertedLayman)
Have you never heard of Tafseer? Have you never thought to read the whole Qur'an? Do you not understand the meaning of the Qur'an, yet profess the meaning of a select line?

Oh wait.. you're banned. Well I hope if you graduate you don't become my doctor.. I don't want someone who thinks a child can be begotten by an entity unlike him and be his own father etc. to prescribe me drugs. That's dangerous.

You have a grave misunderstanding of the Father-Son relationship if you think that what you've just said is what Christians believe.

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by Cephalus)
You have a grave misunderstanding of the Father-Son relationship if you think that what you've just said is what Christians believe.

Problem is, most Christians believe something different from each other. And I pretty much said the general consensus of that disgusting innovation referred by many as the trinity. There is no "father-son relationship" in real religion, only in Christianity.

I won't apologise for not respecting the views of the Chri.. I mean.. First Council of Nicaea. Educate yourself.