[lucaf]

(Original post by .eXe)
How?

all of the violent, barbaric parts of the quaran (that you love to point out) are pretty much identical to parts of the old testament, which is the same God that christians and jews worship. islam is actually more consistent with the god of the old testament the christian god, since there is less of an apparent character change.

Christians and muslims and jews all worship the god of abraham, albeit in very different ways, they simply diverged at different points.

[yeahmon123]

(Original post by .eXe)
I believe Allah isn't a real God but rather a creation of Mohammad.

So you believe in God, but don't agree with the way God is portrayed by the Qur'an Sharif. Hmmm how come though? The concept of God is actually explained extremely logically in the Qur'an though, as in there is no contradiction in the concept of God. He is one, the Almighty, owner of the universe, vision perceives him not etc. The concept of God is simple and very easily understood. I think the problem lies in the violence people read in the Qur'an, but those are not to be taken literally. To actually fully comprehend the description of some events in the Qur'an such as "slay them..." you would need to look into the history of the religion where the circumstances that Muhammed (saw) lived in wasn't perfect. There were lots of opponents from the pagans etc.. and people caused violence, not Muhammed (saw) and since the Qur'an was revealed during that time, there are verses in the Qur'an that were used as advice to the people at the time to be able to take action against those trying to harm them. It isn't in any way a gesture as to what Muslims should do now in order to be a good Muslim. There are verses that were specifically revealed for circumstances at that time, not because God is cruel, but so the people could fight in order to keep themselves alive and spread the word of God. It really is the fools who take the literal meaning for every word in the Qur'an and miss the whole meaning behind it. I mean, the whole idea is to ponder to aid your journey in being closer to God and so the point of those verses that people are mocking Islam over, really encourages us Muslims to study the history of Islam so we can provide rational reasoning as to why those verses exist. Besides, Muhammed (saw) made a constituency to provide religious freedom in Mecca but it was the uproar of the opponents that made the Muslims fight back.

[Maerzin]

I think there is a bit of a clash of different contexts going on here. All three are Abrahamic religions and from a historical point of view they build upon the same concept of God.

However, from the context of within those religions, they have different perceptions of God however minimal those differences may be. In that sense they worship different Gods.

[.eXe]

(Original post by lucaf)
all of the violent, barbaric parts of the quaran (that you love to point out) are pretty much identical to parts of the old testament, which is the same God that christians and jews worship. islam is actually more consistent with the god of the old testament the christian god, since there is less of an apparent character change.

Christians and muslims and jews all worship the god of abraham, albeit in very different ways, they simply diverged at different points.

But if the question was "do muslims believe in the same God as Jews"...you might be right (ignoring the fact that I think Allah is made up)

But the minute you put Christianity in the mix there's an issue. Because muslims and jews both reject Jesus as God.

Do you argue this...?

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by .eXe)
No I am a Christian and dont worship the same God as muslims.

Id rather be an atheist than worship mohammads god


Posted via TSR iPhone App

You'd rather be an atheist than worship Jesus (Peace be upon him)'s God? Wow.. that's some new form of Christianity you've got there.

[.eXe]

(Original post by InvertedLayman)
You'd rather be an atheist than worship Jesus (Peace be upon him)'s God? Wow.. that's some new form of Christianity you've got there.

Don't ask me gibberish before understanding what Christianity is.

There is no Jesus' God.

Jesus is God for Christians...as part of the Holy Trinity. Father/Son/Holy Spirit. All are the same thing.

Saying "Jesus' God" is an oxymoron.

[lucaf]

(Original post by .eXe)
But if the question was "do muslims believe in the same God as Jews"...you might be right (ignoring the fact that I think Allah is made up)

But the minute you put Christianity in the mix there's an issue. Because muslims and jews both reject Jesus as God.

Do you argue this...?

even if Allah is made up, he is just a made up take on the same God. so they would still be worshiping the same god, just false teachings from him.

and while they reject Jesus as God, Jesus is just a part of God. All three worship the Father, and all three acknowledge the old testament prophets. hell, muslims even accept jesus as a prophet. they are all worshiping the same god, just differently. you can say muslims and Jews are worshiping him wrong, but in the end you share half a holy book with them.

[.eXe]

(Original post by lucaf)
even if Allah is made up, he is just a made up take on the same God. so they would still be worshiping the same god, just false teachings from him.

and while they reject Jesus as God, Jesus is just a part of God. All three worship the Father, and all three acknowledge the old testament prophets. hell, muslims even accept jesus as a prophet. they are all worshiping the same god, just differently. you can say muslims and Jews are worshiping him wrong, but in the end you share half a holy book with them.

Here is where your understanding of Christianity is lacking.

I suggest you stop arguing with me until you go figure out 2 things.

1) Christians don't see Jesus as a prophet
2) Jesus does not "worship" a God

[lucaf]

(Original post by .eXe)
Don't ask me gibberish before understanding what Christianity is.

There is no Jesus' God.

Jesus is God for Christians...as part of the Holy Trinity. Father/Son/Holy Spirit. All are the same thing.

Saying "Jesus' God" is an oxymoron.

isn't the trinity just catholics? or have I had that wrong?

[.eXe]

(Original post by lucaf)
isn't the trinity just catholics? or have I had that wrong?

You see...this is exactly what I am talking about.

You have no idea what Christianity actually is...

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by .eXe)
Don't ask me gibberish before understanding what Christianity is.

There is no Jesus' God.

Jesus is God for Christians...as part of the Holy Trinity. Father/Son/Holy Spirit. All are the same thing.

Saying "Jesus' God" is an oxymoron.

Yeah you're partially correct, it is insulting to say that Jesus has his own God. There is only one God and he is the God of everyone, the creator of everyone, both Jesus and Muhammad (Peace be upon them both) worship him.

Also true, Christians do have a different God to Muslims, that's because they aren't following Jesus' (Peace be upon him) religion but idolising him as their central figurehead.

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by .eXe)
Here is where your understanding of Christianity is lacking.

I suggest you stop arguing with me until you go figure out 2 things.

1) Christians don't see Jesus as a prophet
2) Jesus does not "worship" a God

I know, right? He prayed Salat to Allah, the only God.

[lucaf]

(Original post by .eXe)
Here is where your understanding of Christianity is lacking.

I suggest you stop arguing with me until you go figure out 2 things.

1) Christians don't see Jesus as a prophet
2) Jesus does not "worship" a God

I never said Jesus worshiped a god, and yes I realize you don't see him as a prophet. but the point is that Jesus was supposedly part/son of the same god that created adam, spoke to abraham, led moses out of egypt, etc. that God is the same God worshipped by the Jews and the Muslims. denying Christ is God does not mean they are worshiping a different god, it means that they believe different things about the same god.

saying they worship a different God is like saying that people who believe Elvis never died are talking about a different Elvis. they may believe different things, but they are talking about the same guy

[lucaf]

(Original post by .eXe)
You see...this is exactly what I am talking about.

You have no idea what Christianity actually is...

I was brought up a catholic, my knowledge of other denominations is lacking.

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by lucaf)
I never said Jesus worshiped a god, and yes I realize you don't see him as a prophet. but the point is that Jesus was supposedly part/son of the same god that created adam, spoke to abraham, led moses out of egypt, etc. that God is the same God worshipped by the Jews and the Muslims. denying Christ is God does not mean they are worshiping a different god, it means that they believe different things about the same god.

saying they worship a different God is like saying that people who believe Elvis never died are talking about a different Elvis. they may believe different things, but they are talking about the same guy

Because to Christian accord Jesus begot himself as his own son. He fertilised his own mothers egg before he was born to give himself life and he was somehow his own father. Or something like that.. I wonder what the pope has to say on this.. did he beget himself too?

Oh yes also somehow he died for our sins even though he apparently created us and could forgive our sins? And apparently the universe still existed even though he chose to let himself "die". So apparently we don't need the creator to exist in Christian theology. Or something along those lines.

[lucaf]

(Original post by InvertedLayman)
Because to Christian accord Jesus begot himself as his own son. He fertilised his own mothers egg before he was born to give himself life and he was somehow his own father. Or something like that.. I wonder what the pope has to say on this.. did he beget himself too?

Oh yes also somehow he died for our sins even though he apparently created us and could forgive our sins? And apparently the universe still existed even though he chose to let himself "die". So apparently we don't need the creator to exist in Christian theology. Or something along those lines.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about the "god made flesh" thing, he just took physical form as a human. as god he is not limited to one form, they believe he is the father and the son at the same time, so when he died on the cross the universe was not without a God, he did not cease to exist.

as for the forgiveness of sins part, beats me. why he had to let himself die to forgive us rather than just forgive us, no sense whatsoever.

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by lucaf)
I don't see what is so hard to understand about the "god made flesh" thing, he just took physical form as a human. as god he is not limited to one form, they believe he is the father and the son at the same time, so when he died on the cross the universe was not without a God, he did not cease to exist.

as for the forgiveness of sins part, beats me. why he had to let himself die to forgive us rather than just forgive us, no sense whatsoever.

Wait so you don't understand why it is absurd to believe that a God lets himself "die for our sins"? What's next, you're going to say I'll never get it lest "the holy spirit" touches me?

If I was a king, and you killed two sheep from another mans farm, and I could either sacrifice myself in their place to "die for your sins", somehow filling a pleasure of said man, or give two sheep to that man and "forgive" you for your sins, which would I do?
Also note that I gave life to myself somehow, and my "true" self is my father. I am both the son and father of myself. I am somehow going to officially kill myself. I am going to be able to kill myself even though I seem to have divine powers. And appently I killed myself to forgive you.

Oh wait apparently you are all sinners at birth. Yall peeps lucky some guy killed himself for your sins apparently, dayum otherwise he wouldn't have told himself to forgive you. The deity that created you had to feel pain as himself/son/self(oh crap this paradox is weird) to forgive you. Not only that, the concept of "that guy is dead, I believe he is dead so I am now forgiven" is the stupidest fallacy that has ever came to this world.
Actually nay, worshipping other than one God, the true God, is the stupidest fallacy to every come to the world.

Hey and I'm not propagating Islam or anything or even Judaism or any other form of monotheism. But if any religion is true, it sure aint Christianity.

[lucaf]

(Original post by InvertedLayman)
Wait so you don't understand why it is absurd to believe that a God lets himself "die for our sins"? What's next, you're going to say I'll never get it lest "the holy spirit" touches me?

If I was a king, and you killed two sheep from another mans farm, and I could either sacrifice myself in their place to "die for your sins", somehow filling a pleasure of said man, or give two sheep to that man and "forgive" you for your sins, which would I do?
Also note that I gave life to myself somehow, and my "true" self is my father. I am both the son and father of myself. I am somehow going to officially kill myself. I am going to be able to kill myself even though I seem to have divine powers. And appently I killed myself to forgive you.

Oh wait apparently you are all sinners at birth. Yall peeps lucky some guy killed himself for your sins apparently, dayum otherwise he wouldn't have told himself to forgive you. The deity that created you had to feel pain as himself/son/self(oh crap this paradox is weird) to forgive you. Not only that, the concept of "that guy is dead, I believe he is dead so I am now forgiven" is the stupidest fallacy that has ever came to this world.
Actually nay, worshipping other than one God, the true God, is the stupidest fallacy to every come to the world.

Hey and I'm not propagating Islam or anything or even Judaism or any other form of monotheism. But if any religion is true, it sure aint Christianity.

I said it doesn't make sense that he had to die for our sins. I am not a christian. it makes absolutely no sense as far as I am concerned, that is why I left

[Indian_Princess]

(Original post by .eXe)
No I am a Christian and dont worship the same God as muslims.

Id rather be an atheist than worship mohammads god


Posted via TSR iPhone App

you'd rather be an Atheist than worship the God that Muslims believe in i.e. the God that Christians believe in? wow, really shows the weak faith of Christians these days..

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by lucaf)
I said it doesn't make sense that he had to die for our sins. I am not a christian. it makes absolutely no sense as far as I am concerned, that is why I left

Oh I must have skimmed through it too quickly (exams are over there's some lag time going on or something lol). I thought you said something like 'I don't get how people don't understand the concept of..'.

Again I'm not necessarily propagating my belief unto you I was just saying whatever you believe as the truth, Christianity or at least most "modern" sects of it are nowhere near to the truth. And yes, Catholicism is modern in this view.