[prog2djent]

As above, try and give a few reasons intead of just "TEH EVUL BANCKHERS" or "GOVNERMUNT OVER SPUNDED AND OVER BORROWED"

Have also included a poll to see where people are arguing from.

I know its general, I don't associate with any of those but would probably go with centre-left in this particular situation. Neo-liberal for most others.

Edit: If you are going to talk about tax dodging (which I hear a lot) please back it up.

[Darth Stewie]

Well basically because Greece's main industries are shipping and tourism they were hit especially hard by the 2000 financial crisis so the government had to spend heavily to keep their economy working and incurred a lot of debt because of it. In 2010 they had to request a substantial loan from the EU and IMF to cover their costs until the end of the year. As a result of this Greece was downgraded to a BB+ debt rating resulting in a decline in stock markets and the Euro.

So the Greeks needed money and as a result the government introduced a bunch of austerity measures so they could get some bail outs, unfortunately the Greeks didn't like this and decided to get mad and have a bit of a riot and it got to the point where military coups were becoming a real threat so the EU, IMF and ECB agreed to provide another bailout which came with a debt restructure agreement and as a result had about 100 billion of debt wrote off. Since the anti-austerity part didn't win in the elections there is still the possibility of Greece staying in the Eurozone but the Greek people are still hella mad and a lot of people are suffering heavily at the hands of the austerity measures and there is a heavy anti-German sentiment in Greece because they rightly view them as the ones basically forcing them to suffer to get the money rather than allowing them to leave which many think would probably be preferable.

i don't really know what any of those poll terms mean in regards to this issue but the Greeks are capable of making their own decisions, if the majority want to leave then they should be allowed to do so.

So overspending, incompetence, civil unrest and as usual, Germany.

[Xarren]

Who gives a crap about the mess in Greece? They utilised fishy accounting in order to get into EU, and now just weigh us down. Totally unfair on countries that actually worked to adhere to EU standards. Shame there is no way to stop them using the Euro and giving them the boot :/

[Harry Callahan]

(Original post by Xarren)
Who gives a crap about the mess in Greece? They utilised fishy accounting in order to get into EU, and now just weigh us down. Totally unfair on countries that actually worked to adhere to EU standards. Shame there is no way to stop them using the Euro and giving them the boot :/

Hopefully Greece will leave, because they'll be better out of the Euro. Shame that there's no way to stop Poland and all the other money-grabbing Eastern European countries from being in the EU and booting them out.

The EU is an absolute joke.

[Ray Bradbury]

Fewer than 5,000 Greeks declare annual incomes of more than 100,000 euros ($129,587.23), although more than 60,000 Greek households have investments in cash and securities exceeding 1 million euros, according to the Financial Times.

More ridiculous is the fact that many people with a house, with a cottage in the country, with two cars and maybe a small boat assert they are earning a mere $15,900 a year, according to a New York Times report.

The refusal to get to grips with the MASSIVE tax evasion that has gone on there for decades is finally coming home to roost.
As has been pointed out many times, Greece is a financial basket case and has been for many years. The horrible **** that they are going through now (and it is horrible by the way ie many retirees seeing their pension cut by up tom 60%) is mostly of their own making.

[cl_steele]

several key problems; a huge public sector, they didnt just do creative accounting about their debt situation when joining the euro they blatently lied and continued to do so, their economy is to weak to support their debt, their citizens are all lying tax dodging little buggers. theres no short term cure for it, the bailout is little more than life support for a dead patient...

[shelly1]

Taxes!!!! They simply just don't pay enough/any! The country needs to introduce Pay As You Earn - not a popular idea with the Greeks I'm sure.

[The Dufmeister]

Greece's currency was overvalued compared to the strength of its economy. It was therefore uncompetitive.

[Xarren]

(Original post by Harry Callahan)
Hopefully Greece will leave, because they'll be better out of the Euro. Shame that there's no way to stop Poland and all the other money-grabbing Eastern European countries from being in the EU and booting them out.

The EU is an absolute joke.

I think you'll find that "Money grabbing ee countries" operate within the EU regulations, and have not cheated anyone in order to be in their current situation - They have not contributed negatively to the financial crisis in the way that greece has.

[Krov]

It's always the English.

Perfidious Albion one day, Perfidious Albion always.

[Harry Callahan]

(Original post by Xarren)
I think you'll find that "Money grabbing ee countries" operate within the EU regulations, and have not cheated anyone in order to be in their current situation - They have not contributed negatively to the financial crisis in the way that greece has.

i'm on about the countries' residents.

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by prog2djent)
As above, try and give a few reasons intead of just "TEH EVUL BANCKHERS" or "GOVNERMUNT OVER SPUNDED AND OVER BORROWED"

Have also included a poll to see where people are arguing from.

I know its general, I don't associate with any of those but would probably go with centre-left in this particular situation. Neo-liberal for most others.

The global financial crisis started from food shortages occurring across the third world. This had repercussions in the financial sector and caused the meltdown we see today. The financial collapse may well have been stabilised within itself but deregulation of corporate and consumer banking allowed accounts and funds to exchange, thus interweaving corporate financial turmoil to the consumer market. This had ramifications on housing, job security and relative income levels. The plummet has affected some countries more adversely than others due to their existing financial stability and economic structure. This is not to say that these structures and budgets do not work; more that they were not adapted to the current financial crisis and so you have, in broad terms, what happened.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by ANARCHY__)
The global financial crisis started from food shortages occurring across the third world. This had repercussions in the financial sector and caused the meltdown we see today. The financial collapse may well have been stabilised within itself but deregulation of corporate and consumer banking allowed accounts and funds to exchange, thus interweaving corporate financial turmoil to the consumer market. This had ramifications on housing, job security and relative income levels. The plummet has affected some countries more adversely than others due to their existing financial stability and economic structure. This is not to say that these structures and budgets do not work; more that they were not adapted to the current financial crisis and so you have, in broad terms, what happened.

I'm not sure about that and the rest doesn't help at all.

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by prog2djent)
I'm not sure about that and the rest doesn't help at all.

I don't have the sources to hand to back up the emboldened. I don't understand how the rest doesn't help.

[Pitt1988]

Because their only natural resources are feta cheese and olives.

[mindlessvandalism]

Speculative housing bubble burst and they were exposed to the debt. They were exposed to this exogenous shock because of greater interdependancy.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by mindlessvandalism)
Speculative housing bubble burst .

Yes, In the US and UK.

Not greece as a cause.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by ANARCHY__)
I don't have the sources to hand to back up the emboldened. I don't understand how the rest doesn't help.

You went ahead and partially described the US housing bubble and a possible cause, which I don't it is, I'm asking about why greece is so bad compared with the rest of the more advanced european countries.

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Yes, In the US and UK.

Not greece as a cause.

The global crisis has an impact on countries like Greece. Greece has or had a budget which gave a lot of social and financial security. In times of wealth, this might have been feasible but when the Euro crisis struck, it came undone. Unemployment and social unrest rose; spiralled out of control. etc.

Other countries within the European Union do not have this problem and also, in the main, have a comparatively stable economy but Ireland and Spain are also suffering (though not to the same extent).

[mindlessvandalism]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Yes, In the US and UK.

Not greece as a cause.

Yes, but greece was exposed to American debt, When Lehmans wasnt bailed out, Greece banks lost money and therefore lost credit. This meant that greek banks stopped lending and this resulted in a negative mulitplier effect, e.g loss of business, loss of jobs, loss of income, loss of consumption. Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy and Portugul were all exposed to US debt, Greece's economy is just the weakest, in terms of the balance of payments and they had a week government, e.g taxes could be easily avoided.