[Johnny Hollywood]

America is not the only state to support terrorism. for example Britain or France, especially in previous generations. However, America is most relevant to the so-called "War on Terror."

[jaadau121]

Terrorism will not be defetaed until Americans stop their meddling in muslim countries in the ME, and in order for that to ahppen Americans need to drop their greed for oil.

If America is unwilling to drop its greed for oil and meddling in the ME then it should take it on the chin when American people get killed just like America funds Arab dictators to kill their people in order to keep the oil flowing.

America needs to accept the fact that American blood isn't more special than the blood of bthose whos murder America KNOWINGLY FINDS DAY AFTER DAY.

[jaadau121]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-forever.html


British dogs intent on passing secrecy laws so their antics cannot be revealed to the world AND THEN YOU ASK WHY TERRORISM EXISTS or why muslims silently condone it

This is why, sort your bastard junky 'boys' out and question your own silence on your own bastard junky 'boys' antics before daring to question the silence of others.

British greed for Arab oil knows no boundaries.

[.eXe]

(Original post by jaadau121)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-forever.html


British dogs intent on passing secrecy laws so their antics cannot be revealed to the world AND THEN YOU ASK WHY TERRORISM EXISTS or why muslims silently condone it

This is why, sort your bastard junky 'boys' out and question your own silence on your own bastard junky 'boys' antics before daring to question the silence of others.

British greed for Arab oil knows no boundaries.

No one asked taliban to fly a bunch of planes into buildings. If they were so worried about their innocent brothers and sisters being tortured as you say, then don't do nonsense like that.

I'm sorry, I don't at all agree with what the US and CIA and Britain are doing in the middle east but that in no way justifies what your "muslim brothers" and the like are doing in the world for their Allah.

[jaadau121]

(Original post by .eXe)
No one asked taliban to fly a bunch of planes into buildings. If they were so worried about their innocent brothers and sisters being tortured as you say, then don't do nonsense like that.

I'm sorry, I don't at all agree with what the US and CIA and Britain are doing in the middle east but that in no way justifies what your "muslim brothers" and the like are doing in the world for their Allah.

Get your facts right number one it wasn't Taliban who carried out 9/11 it was the American created Al Qaeda who did it and number two the british dogs are doiing this to ordinary civilians not militants. Number three 9/11 was not linked to religion as much as it was an act of revenge given America's antics in the ME for the best part of the four decades.

If you want to know why terrorism exists look no further than who funds the oppression, killing, rape and torture of ME muslims and the answers to that will be founbd in teh archives in Washington and London.

Those who fund the death of ME must pay a price, and until the west stops funding the murder of ME muslims that price will continue to be paid

You seem to be against terrorism but seem to brush the antics of Britain and America under the carpet

I on the other hand oppose both.

And I see you did not reply to the actual article, not surprising given your pathetic level of intelligence on the matter, so pathetic that you don't know the Taliban aren't in Iraq nor did the Taliban carry out 9/11.

Just goes to show how gullible westerners are, they can be so easily brainwashed by there so called 'perfect' news channels such as state controlled BBC (who show images of Iraq and pass them off as pictures from Syria lol hint hint more war mongering) or war mongering American arse licking Sky News which is Murdochs instrument to get the British puppet dancing to American tunes.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by .eXe)
No one asked taliban to fly a bunch of planes into buildings.

Can you show me your proof to this claim?

And strictly speaking, the person who did do the above (assuming they're Muslims), would probably reply with; "well no one asked America to meddle into the affairs of Muslims"

That's pretty much what Bin Laden said. And he was very distinct about it, especially when said; "Why do American's think we haven't attacked Sweden for example"?

[jaadau121]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Can you show me your proof to this claim?

And strictly speaking, the person who did do the above (assuming they're Muslims), would probably reply with; "well no one asked America to meddle into the affairs of Muslims"

That's pretty much what Bin Laden said. And he was very distinct about it, especially when said; "Why do American's think we haven't attacked Sweden for example"?

It is not so much the 'meddling' as you cna argue all states to nsome extent will try to influence other coutnries to tehir way of thinking etc,

The problem with America is that it funds and equips Arab dictators to oppres their people so AMerica can have a stranglehold on Arab oil, and the worst thing is the Americans could not care less if muslims in the ME have their throats squeezed as a result of that stranglehold, and then the Americans have the nerve to talk about terrorism.

Hypocrisy at its sheer best.

Terrorism is the effect, America's relentless support for Arab dictators and America's continual funding of Arab dictators is the ROOT CAUSE.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by jaadau121)
It is not so much the 'meddling' as you cna argue all states to nsome extent will try to influence other coutnries to tehir way of thinking etc,

The problem with America is that it funds and equips Arab dictators to oppres their people so AMerica can have a stranglehold on Arab oil, and the worst thing is the Americans could not care less if muslims in the ME have their throats squeezed as a result of that stranglehold, and then the Americans have the nerve to talk about terrorism.

Hypocrisy at its sheer best.

Terrorism is the effect, America's relentless support for Arab dictators and America's continual funding of Arab dictators is the ROOT CAUSE.

This is Bin Ladens' reasoning for 9/11;

---

"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the Towers, but after the situation became unbearable—and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon—I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed—when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way: to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

— Osama bin Laden, 2004^[124]

---

The above doesn't have any Islamic justification btw, retaliation killing isn't allowed.

But it gives an idea that 9/11 wasn't just random, there was a cause and a consequence.

[jaadau121]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
This is Bin Ladens' reasoning for 9/11;

---

"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the Towers, but after the situation became unbearable—and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon—I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed—when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way: to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

— Osama bin Laden, 2004^[124]

---

Good source as well, thanks. I will keep it for future reference.

Didn't Al Qaeda release two statements one in 96 the other in 98 warning America to stop playing games in the ME and remove its soldiers from Arab countries? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

[jaadau121]

(Original post by .eXe)
No one asked taliban to fly a bunch of planes into buildings. If they were so worried about their innocent brothers and sisters being tortured as you say, then don't do nonsense like that.

I'm sorry, I don't at all agree with what the US and CIA and Britain are doing in the middle east but that in no way justifies what your "muslim brothers" and the like are doing in the world for their Allah.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...da.september11

The following are excerpts from a speech by Osama bin Laden addressing the American people in a videotape, parts of which were aired by al-Jazeera television yesterday, as translated by Reuters

O American people, I am speaking to tell you about the ideal way to avoid another Manhattan, about war and its causes and results.

Security is an important foundation of human life and free people do not squander their security, contrary to Bush's claims that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not attack Sweden for example.

It is known that those who hate freedom do not possess proud souls like those of the 19, may God rest their souls. We fought you because we are free and because we want freedom for our nation. When you squander our security we squander your's.

I'm surprised by you. Despite entering the fourth year after September 11, Bush is still deceiving you and hiding the truth from you and therefore the reasons are still there to repeat what happened.

God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed - when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the US sixth fleet.

In those difficult moments many emotions came over me which are hard to describe, but which produced an overwhelming feeling to reject injustice and a strong determination to punish the unjust.

As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way [and] to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women.

We had no difficulty in dealing with Bush and his administration because they resemble the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half by the sons of kings ... They have a lot of pride, arrogance, greed and thievery.

[Bush] adopted despotism and the crushing of freedoms from Arab rulers _ called it the Patriot Act under the guise of combating terrorism ...

We had agreed with [the September 11] overall commander, Mohammed Atta, may God rest his soul, to carry out all operations in 20 minutes before Bush and his administration take notice.

It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American forces [Bush] would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to face those horrors alone at a time when they most needed him because he thought listening to a child discussing her goat and its ramming was more important than the planes and their ramming of the skyscrapers. This had given us three times the time needed to carry out the operations, thanks be to God ...

Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential candidate John] Kerry or Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your own hands and each state which does not harm our security will remain safe.

[.eXe]

(Original post by jaadau121)
~

Ever heard of "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind?"

If Laden follows this amazing "religion of peace", shouldn't he be taking the high moral road instead of killing innocent people like he suggests that Bush is doing?

If his quarrel with Bush/America is that they are killing innocent muslims, then how exactly is Laden doing the right thing by doing the EXACT SAME THING in return?

Does this sound like a man who wants to resolve an issue or does it sound like a man who is using America's nonsense policies to further his own hateful and murderous desires?

I am not saying that America is blameless, I am well aware of how badly their actions have damaged the world.

However, to say that we should fight fire with fire is gibberish.

Also, America does what it does because of its flawed policies and corruption/greed. It's a political game for them.

For Bin Laden however, it's not strictly political is it? He used Allah to back his actions. He uses verses from the Quran to back his actions.

Now here's the thing: America has never claimed that its policies are for peace and love and harmony and all that. The entire world knows that America is a flawed, capitalistic, greedy system. But that's politics for ya....there is no perfect system.

However, on the flip side, Islam claims to be this amazing religion of peace and harmony, and yet the only things Laden seems to have focused on are the hateful verses of death, murder and jihad.

Totally not comparable to the destructive policies of the US.

If Bin Laden really wanted to rise up against America, he could've done so politically. Via an uprising/parades/rallies/global movements of muslims/etc.

But instead of all that...he decided to use Allah to justify his "eye for an eye" response to America.

In my eyes, Bush and bin Laden are one and the same. However, one is politically motivated, while the other is motivated by God/his beliefs. Since we all know that there is no perfect political system (hell even communism failed and that was supposed to be this uber great system) we can't necessarily just blame Bush for everything.

However, belief is what man makes them to be. For that reason, we can blame Bin Laden entirely for the nonsense he engaged in for so many decades.

And no amount of "America invaded us first" or "Americans are ungodly infidels" is going to change the fact that bin Laden killed thousands of innocent people for an agenda that he himself did not want his own children to follow.

[jaadau121]

(Original post by .eXe)
Ever heard of "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind?"

If Laden follows this amazing "religion of peace", shouldn't he be taking the high moral road instead of killing innocent people like he suggests that Bush is doing?

If his quarrel with Bush/America is that they are killing innocent muslims, then how exactly is Laden doing the right thing by doing the EXACT SAME THING in return?

Does this sound like a man who wants to resolve an issue or does it sound like a man who is using America's nonsense policies to further his own hateful and murderous desires?

I am not saying that America is blameless, I am well aware of how badly their actions have damaged the world.

However, to say that we should fight fire with fire is gibberish.

Also, America does what it does because of its flawed policies and corruption/greed. It's a political game for them.

For Bin Laden however, it's not strictly political is it? He used Allah to back his actions. He uses verses from the Quran to back his actions.

Now here's the thing: America has never claimed that its policies are for peace and love and harmony and all that. The entire world knows that America is a flawed, capitalistic, greedy system. But that's politics for ya....there is no perfect system.

However, on the flip side, Islam claims to be this amazing religion of peace and harmony, and yet the only things Laden seems to have focused on are the hateful verses of death, murder and jihad.

Totally not comparable to the destructive policies of the US.

If Bin Laden really wanted to rise up against America, he could've done so politically. Via an uprising/parades/rallies/global movements of muslims/etc.

But instead of all that...he decided to use Allah to justify his "eye for an eye" response to America.

In my eyes, Bush and bin Laden are one and the same. However, one is politically motivated, while the other is motivated by God/his beliefs. Since we all know that there is no perfect political system (hell even communism failed and that was supposed to be this uber great system) we can't necessarily just blame Bush for everything.

However, belief is what man makes them to be. For that reason, we can blame Bin Laden entirely for the nonsense he engaged in for so many decades.

And no amount of "America invaded us first" or "Americans are ungodly infidels" is going to change the fact that bin Laden killed thousands of innocent people for an agenda that he himself did not want his own children to follow.

I posted it to prove that he didn't plan and execute 9/11 because Islam says 'kill apostates' etc otherwise he could have targeted any 'apostate nation' ie sweden etc:

Let him tell us why we did not attack Sweden for example.

9/11 occured because and in Osama own words:

As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way [and] to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women.

I am sorry but as bad as terrorism is, America's and its allies antics are the cause and terrorism is the reverberating effect which the west does not like. If the west wants terrorism to stop, it should stop playing games with the lives of ME muslims by funding and arming oppressing Sunni dictators, simple as.

That would save a great deal of lives of both sides, but America want to play its games with no consequences, but in the words of Isaac Newton:

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Terrorism is that 'equal and opposite reaction'.

t

[Carter78]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello Fahim,

Sadly, attacks on Islam are common on this forum, same as attacks on Christian beliefs. On this forum, there are some Atheists who despise people who believe in God, and enjoy mocking people who believe in God. However, there are other Atheists who enjoy interacting and learning about what others believe, even though they disagree.

I don't go out of my way to attack anyone personally.

Regardless, do you think it is arrogant of people like Richard Dawkins to say things like "not all opinions are valid". - Because an opinion based on fact and evidence (empirical) has more weight than one without? I can't find the specific video right now, but if you'd like I'll find it for you.

[sophia_]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Is it me or are there too many threads regarding Islam. For quite a few weeks now there have been many threads posted on how Islam and its believers are not practising the religion as they should. most of these threads are made buy NON-MUSLIMS who know nothing about the religion in DEPTH, so i don't get how they can judge. They then also get Quraan translations from google or some sort and say thats there reference. But how do you know those quraan translation could have been made up by non-muslims, if you want translations go to a person who knows the quraan by heart and its true meaning.
Let me just point out this is NO attack on anyone whatsoever, but i just feel that theres been too many threads about islam, and its not good threads but treads that attacks islam. Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please.

Mate.

Are you suggesting that a non-Muslim can have no better idea of Islam than if they were a Muslim?

You say they cannot judge. A Muslim cannot judge. Nobody can judge.

That's the idea of God in part, get it?

[jaadau121]

(Original post by Carter78)
I don't go out of my way to attack anyone personally.

Regardless, do you think it is arrogant of people like Richard Dawkins to say things like "not all opinions are valid". - Because an opinion based on fact and evidence (empirical) has more weight than one without? I can't find the specific video right now, but if you'd like I'll find it for you.

I do not have a clue who Richard Dawkins is, but surely he is right to say an opinion based some sort of fact, evidence or stats etc has more weight than an opinion without.

In simple its not arrogant, because anyone have an opinion without evidence, for an opinion to hold weight you need evidence

[Carter78]

(Original post by jaadau121)
I do not have a clue who Richard Dawkins is, but surely he is right to say an opinion based some sort of fact, evidence or stats etc has more weight than an opinion without.

In simple its not arrogant, because anyone have an opinion without evidence, for an opinion to hold weight you need evidence

Exactly, if I said "it is my sincere belief that if you eat Strawberries then you will turn invisible", surely that view does not hold the same merit as if I said "after 20 years of research - which has been dissected, debated upon and ultimately approved by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community, I have come to the conclusion that strawberries do not turn you invisible".

Btw Richard Dawkins; perhaps the most famous evolutionary biologist alive, a respected ex-Oxford Professor of Public Science and author of many internationally best-selling books such as The Blind Watchmaker, The Greatest Show On Earth and The God Delusion. He is commonly held to be one of the most prominent advocates of Atheism.

[zeezee180]

These people who claim to be muslims and for arguments sake 'did' 9/11, you can't even classify them as muslims. These people just needed a reason to commit their crimes so they used Islam as a reason. Islam is a religion of peace. I feel so bad about 9/11. So many people died and it hurts to think that they themselves were innocent. I do feel bad honestly.What i don't understand is why everyone brings it up over and over again. Millions of innocent children and women have been killed in Palestine over the last 65 or so years yet that isn't brought to light. Neither is what is happening in Burma where thousands of Muslims are being massacred day after day. Yet it seems the media wants to show Muslims in a bad light and not show how much they're suffering. Its horrible. Yet it isn't shown by our media. And also, in Islam it doesn't say anywhere that we should kill another human being:

Hadith: 'No arab can claim merit over ab non arab, nor man over women, nor black over white.'

We as muslims are taught that everyone is equal as we all have the same creator. We believe that if you commit suicide you no longer can consider yourself a muslim.
All im saying is those people couldn't possible have been muslims.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100

[zeezee180]

it seems like if your gay, atheist or muslim, the world has a problem loool :P

[Fahim711]

Hey guys I've been following this thread for a long time now.. but I've found things and done a bit more research...

If you people think that islam and some or all muslims are terrorists, i have found one good reason why they are...
As many of you know after 9/11 American,British,European and many other countries troops were deployed to the middle east and were missioned to do a specific job (i don't know that specific job maybe oil, to find bin laden, to restore democracy or whatever it is they went there).

Well many soldiers have returned from their dutys from the middle east and this link (posted below) shows what some of the troops had to do when they returned.

Click HERE for the link.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Hey guys I've been following this thread for a long time now.. but I've found things and done a bit more research...

If you people think that islam and some or all muslims are terrorists, i have found one good reason why they are...
As many of you know after 9/11 American,British,European and many other countries troops were deployed to the middle east and were missioned to do a specific job (i don't know that specific job maybe oil, to find bin laden, to restore democracy or whatever it is they went there).

Well many soldiers have returned from their dutys from the middle east and this link (posted below) shows what some of the troops had to do when they returned.

Click HERE for the link.

What's your point? We all know war is bad...even the soldier know themselves. They are just following duty and their commander in chief. No one actually wakes up wanting to shoot a bunch of people dead in a foreign country.

However, no one asked the terrorists to attack the US. To put it simply: they started it. Obviously the US was going to respond...what were they expecting? Flowers?

Don't get me wrong, I hate the US and their actions post-911. But that doesn't mean that terrorists are somehow justified.

Oh and also, you are mixing and matching two different things here.

Terrorists attacked because of their beliefs (avenge Allah/kill the western infidels/etc.) while the US attacked because of political reasons (and for other corrupt reasons). Can't compare the two and if you do, you cannot blame one and vindicate the other. If anything, both have equal blame.

However, most muslims on TSR will berate American politics but will go crazy the minute someone says something against Islam. Fact of the matter is...both are to blame...not just US alone.