[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Florrick)
Two Muslim women killed for converting to Islam from Hinduism a couple of days back. Did TSR make multiple threads about it like the case in Tunisia?

No.



Hindus violently protested against a catwalk model who modelled Krishna? Did TSR make multiple threads about it like Mohammed pictures?

No.



Ask Muslim women, the large large majority say they want more Islam to be established in majority-Muslim countries and it's still growing strong. Now according to you, "it must mean they're brainwashed" simply because they contradict your view of Islam.


Anyway female infanticide in India, you heard about that. And the Muslims in India have a better sex ratio than their Hindu counterparts. Did that get a mention on TSR?


No.

Ignore that troll, his Bible has killing apostates and his Christian history has killed more apostates than he can ever count.

Of course, these aren't "real Christians" and the interpretation of the Bible "isn't correct, only his version is". He also got exposed for being a liar, regarding knowing Arabic etc.

Why waste time with such people.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Fahim711)
yes i understand that terrorist attacks are wrong and I'm against it, that does not mean am against islam.
if you look at the population of islam in the world right now its about 2.1 Billion right. Im telling you that not even a million of them are terrorists and you can agree with me on that. so now I'm sure that means terrorist are a minority group of muslims, but i do love the fact that they are in so small numbers but can annihilate the twin towers and still al qaeeda can't be taken down there also a great fact that only 6% of terrorists out there are MUSLIMS. so the media has brainwashed you into saying all terrorists are muslims and all muslims are terrorists

I'm not sure you're reading/understanding his posts properly, he's essentially agreeing with you and he's also a Muslim lol.

[NuckingFut]

(Original post by .eXe)
Because they dont kill appstates?

Because they dont want to kill people who draw pictures of mr mo?

Because they dont force their women into submission?

Because they aren't commanded by their god and prophet to "beat their women"?

Want any more?



Posted via TSR iPhone App

here we go again

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Is it me or are there too many threads regarding Islam. For quite a few weeks now there have been many threads posted on how Islam and its believers are not practising the religion as they should. most of these threads are made buy NON-MUSLIMS who know nothing about the religion in DEPTH, so i don't get how they can judge. They then also get Quraan translations from google or some sort and say thats there reference. But how do you know those quraan translation could have been made up by non-muslims, if you want translations go to a person who knows the quraan by heart and its true meaning.
Let me just point out this is NO attack on anyone whatsoever, but i just feel that theres been too many threads about islam, and its not good threads but treads that attacks islam. Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please.

Hello Fahim,

Sadly, attacks on Islam are common on this forum, same as attacks on Christian beliefs. On this forum, there are some Atheists who despise people who believe in God, and enjoy mocking people who believe in God. However, there are other Atheists who enjoy interacting and learning about what others believe, even though they disagree.

There are people of different beliefs in God who enjoy discussion/debate and showing why they believe another belief is wrong or right, according to what they believe. Whenever you see one which you consider to be an attack against Islam, it would be nice for you to answer, explaining what you believe and why. This is what I try to do, when either Muslims or Atheists or people of different beliefs "attack" what I believe. I like to explain what I believe and why. Of course, they disagree with me, but the reason for this section in the forum is to "discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues..." so it is fine to question others beliefs and to address those issues.

I personally do not have a problem when a person of another belief questions issues concerning Christian beliefs. For me, it is a learning process, which I appreciate.

Although it does bug me sometimes when people are rude, mean, are bullies, and just like to mock/curse/despise what I believe and all those who believe it, it just shows me that what Jesus said is true, that his followers will be persecuted.

So, when you feel a person is attacking your belief, it is good to answer the questions/allegations in a calm manner. I am learning about this right now, and it isn't easy many times. Many times it takes prayer to calm down and not take things personally.

Peace and God bless you

[.eXe]

(Original post by Florrick)
--

Its terrible that such a thing happened and I at no point would advocate something like that irrespective of religion.

However, that crime didn't happen because of hinduism. Hinduism has no scripture on what happens to apostates. Thus, them being hindu is merely incidental, not the cause of the problem.

In Islam, it is the scripture that motivates murder. In Islams case, being muslim isn't incidental to killing apostates...its the root of the problem since islam DOES have such scripture.

Unfair comparison. Try again.

Oh and if I were a troll like that imbecile Pers suggested I would've come up with as stupid a response as your post. Instead I prefer to argue with logic and reason. How trollish of me!


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[headunderwater]

Criticising Islam isn't a crime. And criticism (and/or debates about) of religion in general should definitely be encouraged.

[Florrick]

(Original post by .eXe)
Its terrible that such a thing happened and I at no point would advocate something like that irrespective of religion.

However, that crime didn't happen because of hinduism. Hinduism has no scripture on what happens to apostates. Thus, them being hindu is merely incidental, not the cause of the problem.

In Islam, it is the scripture that motivates murder. In Islams case, being muslim isn't incidental to killing apostates...its the root of the problem since islam DOES have such scripture.

Unfair comparison. Try again.

Oh and if I were a troll like that imbecile Pers suggested I would've come up with as stupid a response as your post. Instead I prefer to argue with logic and reason. How trollish of me!


Posted via TSR iPhone App

Prove it.

[Alpharius]

I think this pretty much sums up my opinion on why Islam is picked on more than say Christianity, or to use his example Jainism.

There is a difference between criticism, which is fine, and outright hostility. Having said that, criticism =/= hostility.

[Petro_99]

Its now the summer holidays for most people... so they`re just bored.

[kbilly]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Is it me or are there too many threads regarding Islam. For quite a few weeks now there have been many threads posted on how Islam and its believers are not practising the religion as they should. most of these threads are made buy NON-MUSLIMS who know nothing about the religion in DEPTH, so i don't get how they can judge. They then also get Quraan translations from google or some sort and say thats there reference. But how do you know those quraan translation could have been made up by non-muslims, if you want translations go to a person who knows the quraan by heart and its true meaning.
Let me just point out this is NO attack on anyone whatsoever, but i just feel that theres been too many threads about islam, and its not good threads but treads that attacks islam. Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please.

Perhaps because Islam is the fastest growing religion? It's thus bound to be noticed and discussed about more than other religions?

[.eXe]

(Original post by Florrick)
Prove it.

Does this look like a math equation to you? Go search it yourself kid. YOU raised the hindu issue not me.


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[kbilly]

(Original post by headunderwater)
Criticising Islam isn't a crime. And criticism (and/or debates about) of religion in general should definitely be encouraged.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Steevee]

(Original post by silent ninja)
The government is not totalitarian, it's more subtle.

Imagine all the threads were about Jews and not Muslims, wouldn't you think it was extreme then? Muslims are fair game.

Except Jews don't do half of the things Muslims do in this country. We don't see Jewish extremists on our streets. You don't see Jewish paedophile gangs, you don't see Jewish immigration forming Jewish ghettos in urban areas, you don't see Jewish hate being preached in Jewish schools etc.

Of course I don't think all Muslims are bad people. But people like you who label criticism of Islam and related culture as 'Islamaphobia' are as bad as those Jews who label criticsm of Israel Anti-semetism.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Florrick)
Even though I didn't. I can talk about Muslims in India, although there are a few Muslim billionaires in India, a large percentage make up even lower than the lowest castes in India- the untouchables or otherwise known as the non-Aryans. The untouchables live mostly in a village named Kikat, in todays Bihar and Muslims make up the largest percentage of one of the world's largest slum- Dharavi.


In the Vedas alone, you can see Hindus derive the caste system directly from their scriptures and their scriptures sanction Caste discrimination.


किं ते कर्ण्वन्ति कीकटेषु गावो नाशिरं दुह्रे न तपन्तिघर्म� � |
आ नो भर परमगन्दस्य वेदो नैचाशाखं मघवन्रन्धय� � नः ||

"O Indra, what do the cows make for you among the Kikatas? They neither yield milk for your offerings, nor do they warm the vessel of libation. Bring to us these cows, bring to us also the wealth of Pramagand (their King). O Brave one, grant us the possessions of the people of low status." [Rigveda 314]

On the basis of this clear pronouncement, non-Aryans and untouchables have no right to keep cows. Aryans, whenever they wish can kill them and appropriate their possessions. Hindu culture thus becomes the culture of the progress, civilization and welfare of the Aryan people alone. The pathetic plight of the untouchables of India was due to instructions like these given by Hindu scriptures.

What does any of this gibberish have to do with hindus killing apostates.

Show me where in the quote you posted, the vedas justify killing hindu apostates.

If you cannot do that, then shut up and let the adults talk because YOU raised the hindus killing apostates issue, not me. Since YOU raised the issue, back it the hell up or be quiet.

[headunderwater]

(Original post by .eXe)
What does any of this gibberish have to do with hindus killing apostates.

Show me where in the quote you posted, the vedas justify killing hindu apostates.

If you cannot do that, then shut up and let the adults talk because YOU raised the hindus killing apostates issue, not me. Since YOU raised the issue, back it the hell up or be quiet.

Do you have to be so rude?

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please.

Haha! Have you seen half of the discussions online between atheists and Christians?
"Why are you only attacking Christianity and not other religions like Islam?"

Every religious person who sees their faith being criticised says this.

[.eXe]

(Original post by headunderwater)
Do you have to be so rude?

Absolutely. Because I don't appreciate it when people try to use other religions to justify the crimes of their own...especially when their arguments have absolutely ZERO proof.

I get about 20 PMs a day from raging muslims asking me questions north and south, but their questions are based entirely on false premises. When asked to back them up, they all run.

I don't like people who waste my time. If they have a genuine query, I am more than happy to oblige. Waste my time and get ready to deal with the after-math.

So yes, I absolutely have to be rude to those types of individuals.

However I have no reason to be rude to you and if I came across that way I apologise.

[Truthman]

(Original post by Fahim711)
Is it me or are there too many threads regarding Islam. For quite a few weeks now there have been many threads posted on how Islam and its believers are not practising the religion as they should. most of these threads are made buy NON-MUSLIMS who know nothing about the religion in DEPTH, so i don't get how they can judge. They then also get Quraan translations from google or some sort and say thats there reference. But how do you know those quraan translation could have been made up by non-muslims, if you want translations go to a person who knows the quraan by heart and its true meaning.
Let me just point out this is NO attack on anyone whatsoever, but i just feel that theres been too many threads about islam, and its not good threads but treads that attacks islam. Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please.

Is it me or are there too many threads regarding Islam.

So are you now dictating to people who many threads about islam non muslims are allowed to make? I suppose if we were all living as dhimmi'e under sharia law you would be able to force us to stop and do things exactly as you deem appropriate. Thankfully we are not living under sharia and are therefore free to discuss islam without apology, ok.

The Dhimmi is Forbidden to Read the Koran http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/t...read-the-koran

most of these threads are made buy NON-MUSLIMS who know nothing about the religion in DEPTH, so i don't get how they can judge.

Well, I have to disagree with you. Its common for muslims to claim that non muslims know nothing about islam, i suppose for the most part that is true, but then when people like myself who full well koran, muhummad, islam, etc.. speak about islam we are accused of not knowing islam. But I have yet to meet or talk to a muslim who themself actually knows koran.

All non muslims have a right to judge islam, after all, islam/koran has already judged them, yes?

They then also get Quraan translations from google or some sort and say thats there reference.

Even when we are quoting the same koran that you are reading, we are accused of getting it off google.

When I post koran verses I usually post the tafsir of the accepted islamic scholars like ibn kathir and al jalalayn. I post what the scholars say, yet i am accused of taking it from google. Its just an excuse used by muslims to deny what koran is saying and what islam actually teaches and practices.

But how do you know those quraan translation could have been made up by non-muslims,

Yusefl ali, shakir, aisha bewley, picthall, asad, Ahmed Ali, etc.. are all muslims and their koran translations are accepted by muslims.

if you want translations go to a person who knows the quraan by heart and its true meaning.

Well this is the problem, the muslims who do claim to understand koran lie about what the koran is saying. The video below is a very good example of what I mean:

Imam Moustafa Zayed wrote a book called ‘the lies against muhummad’, here is the same imam LYING ABOUT THE KORAN..
Imam Moustafa Zayed caught LYING about the Koran by The Deception of Allah Author christian prince http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pm-M...1&feature=plcp

Let me just point out this is NO attack on anyone whatsoever, but i just feel that theres been too many threads about islam, and its not good threads but treads that attacks islam.

This is why I say that muslims have to start being honest with themselves.

The koran, from chapter one attacks non muslims, degrades christians and jews and calls for muslims to "QATILU" them (sura 9.29). QATILU = fight to kill.

But yet when the kuffar exposes this koranic reality the muslims cry foul. those muslims who cry 'foul' and claim offence are ignorant of their own book.

Also why is islam talked about too much and why not other religions could you answer that one please

Well maybe that has something to do with the koranic based activities of muslims globally. Its only muslims who are cutting off heads and shooting rockets screaming out the name of their god, true or false?

The mob was chanting “Allahu Akbar” as they slit the Christian’s throat. Liberal talk show host Tawfiq Okasha recently appeared on “Egypt Today,” airing a video of Muslims slicing off a young man’s head off for the crime of apostasy — in this instance, the crime of converting to Christianity and refusing to renounce it. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...slamic-prayer/


Both the koran and the sahih hadith show that apostates must be murdered.

Now if you think I am wrong, it will mean that you do not understand koran/islam. If you think its ok to kill apostates, then you are as evil as the ones doing the killing.

Right now as we speak there is a man on death row in iran, hes crime was that he left islam.

TEHRAN, IRAN (BosNewsLife)-- Iranian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani has rejected an offer to be released from prison if he publicly acknowledges Islam's prophet Mohammed as "a messenger sent by God" http://www.bosnewslife.com/20054-bre...-release-offer

So clearly, westerners need to know what islam is, and not just believe the words of muslims. What islam teaches can be found in the islamic books themselves, and we certainly dont need to apologize to anyone for exposing this.


Also, notice that when muslims are killing apostates, the majority of muslims say nothing, yet they get upset with non muslims talking about islam.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Florrick)
That can culminate into an inferior status and a killing of a non-Aryan, which a Muslim falls under isn't a great deal when they are described as being ''non-human'' anyway. And lest we forget the last verse published, those who reject the Vedas are crushed to bits.



Be a good Christian now. Jesus wouldn't condone insults would he now?

You see how your entire argument is based on the word "can"?

As i said before, knives can cut people and paper bags can suffocate people. So what? Just because something is capable of doing something bad doesn't automatically make it bad.

We are talking about muslims who DO KILL APOSTATES.

You are talking about hindu verses which "can" be used to kill apostates. There is absolutely ZERO PROOF that a single hindu has killed an apostate because his book told them to do so. Go find me a hindu chopping another guys head of and screaming Vishnu is Great or Ram is Great. Go find me a hindu killing an apostate in the name of the vedas.

Nothing like that exists. You're just pretending that it does and arguing with me based on false premises.

Go find me that proof and you win. Otherwise, shut it.

[G-STAR01]

An apostate is a traitor.
In the past traitors have been killed, infact in the past the UK did carry out the death punishment on traitors, um there was that king, can't even remember his name. He betrayed his country and they chopped his head



Secondly if the apostate repents, no punishment is to be carried out.

Sheikh Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni, 9/18: "The apostate should not be put to death until he has been asked to repent three times. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including ‘Umar, ‘Ali, ‘Ata’, al-Nakhaii, Maalik, al-Thawri, al-Awzaa’i, Ishaaq and others. Because apostasy comes about because of doubt, and cannot be dispelled in an instant. Time should be allowed for the person to rethink the matter, and the best length of time is three days. "

The Hanafis, Shafis and Malikis are of the same view.
Refer to Sharh Muslim by al-Nawawi (12/208).


As for as carrying out fixed punishments, it is not by the individual.
The matter is referred to the muslim ruler or his deputy who will make the ruling based on evidence. There is scholarly consensus (ijma) on this as stated in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (5/280). Ofcourse then they will invite him back to Islam, there is no punishment if he accepts the invite.