[concubine]

The idea is that it makes things 'fairer'.


This really isn't the case, but oh well. Like the guy above said, being from a poor background doesn't really get in the way of people going to university.

[roh]

(Original post by Rybee)
I've never understood why you'd give a grant to a poor kid. If they've decided to benefit themselves by going to Uni, borrow it on a loan like the rest of us. Why the hell should they be dishing out free money?

Scrap all grants and bursary bull****, if you want the money, you loan it, and pay it back, or get a ****ing job.

Can't stand it how much the media bang on about you can't go to uni if you're poor... Financially, I'd be much better off if I was, easy ride with free money because your mum and dad are on the doll, you've accidentally had a kid in your teens and you're too lazy to get a job. STACKING up the money right there.

I agree on the grants to an extent but bursaries are provided by the universities themselves, if they want to provide them surely they should be free to do so?

[Rybee]

(Original post by roh)
I agree on the grants to an extent but bursaries are provided by the universities themselves, if they want to provide them surely they should be free to do so?

No - giving it to poor kids is a waste of money. Spend it on improving the University for all students.

[roh]

(Original post by Rybee)
No - giving it to poor kids is a waste of money. Spend it on improving the University for all students.

But what if they think that does improve the university by attracting students? It's their endowment surely they are free to do with it what they wish?

Cam have 4.3 billion to spend, sure they can improve the university and give out some bursaries with that sort of dollar at their disposal.

[Rosalind]

(Original post by Dbrown18)
When a kid who has financially stable parents runs into trouble and needs a bit of money, that money is a phone call away

What parents are these and where can I get them

[Joe911]

(Original post by roh)
No it's, but you suggested totally flat for everyone ie. anyone at university gets the same amount whether they're in care or their Dad's Damon Buffini.

Do you actually mean a flat amount for everyone up to a cut off of say 85k?

I know that it seems daft sometimes when a family with 4 kids and a mortgage who earn 57k combined get nothing but a family where rich grandparents bought the house with an only child and only one parent working on 45k get extra help but I don't know how you'd avoid those without doing a very expensive case by case analysis.

Oops! Yea, I do believe there should be a cut off point, and 85k sounds reasonable.

That's the problem with means testing, it goes on numbers alone, rather than individual circumstances. It's unfair how it leaves so many students without money to cover the basics like accomidation and food :/

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

[earlysound]

The current system makes a lot of assumptions a lot of which are not correct at all. I for example only receive the maintenance loan, and the tuition fees but the maintenance loan does not even cover 40% of rental costs. It seems that we are a society that awards the less-fortunate, and punishes those that are earning a considerable wage. You can't make the assumption that just because someone's parents or in my case parent (Father died in 2010) is able to afford the living costs on top of rental costs and than on top of that support themselves as well as paying bills, mortgage payments etc. The system should treat everyone equally and set standards of living costs so control rent in student accommodation so that the student loans actually do cover living costs because for a lot of people it does not which is just not fair.

My mother earns £37,500, and she lives in a five bedroom house and has a mortgage of £400,000+ to be able to afford the day to day costs of running the household because originally the mortgage was under both my parents names until my dad died, and some of you may say well sell up - well you can't sell a house you do not own yet.

[KillForOreos]

I think it's pretty obvious

[Dbrown18]

(Original post by Rybee)
I've never understood why you'd give a grant to a poor kid. If they've decided to benefit themselves by going to Uni, borrow it on a loan like the rest of us. Why the hell should they be dishing out free money?

Scrap all grants and bursary bull****, if you want the money, you loan it, and pay it back, or get a ****ing job.

Can't stand it how much the media bang on about you can't go to uni if you're poor... Financially, I'd be much better off if I was, easy ride with free money because your mum and dad are on the doll, you've accidentally had a kid in your teens and you're too lazy to get a job. STACKING up the money right there.

My loan doesnt even cover my accommodation. Im not getting that money from anywhere else so i need a grant. Its that simple.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by roh)
So say my housemate is from a single parent family and his mum works in a minimum wage job and also has to support 2 younger siblings. Household income 17k for example. My other housemate is from a middle class family with both parents in the liberal professions and have a household income of 120k (far from a ridiculous notion if both parents work as say doctors). A's mum can't afford to give him anything, B's parents can afford to give him 400 quid a month and pay his rent without too much concern.

The government does some number crunching and finds that if the current SLC budget is just to be distributed equally everyone gets 5K.

Our rent is 3.5k a year. This leaves A with 1.5 k to live on and B with 5k plus 400 quid a month off his parents.

And this is the fairest system?

Not every B gets an extra £400 every month. I know for a fact that my parents expect me to pay for myself and get a job; I won't be getting any handouts, and the loan I'm getting off the government won't even cover the accommodation costs.

Grants aside, I do find it annoying that not everyone can apply for the same loan, money which ultimately gets paid back anyway.

[roh]

(Original post by Joe911)
Oops! Yea, I do believe there should be a cut off point, and 85k sounds reasonable.

That's the problem with means testing, it goes on numbers alone, rather than individual circumstances. It's unfair how it leaves so many students without money to cover the basics like accomidation and food :/

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

It is unfair, particularly for those who don't go to unis who can step in with hardship funds. The problem with doing a proper case by case analysis, like in social work for example, is that it's hugely expensive and that money would have to come out of the overall budget of the SLC. By the time you'd finished you'd just get everyone receiving significantly less, whereas a cut off system does at least ensure that as much budget as possible goes to students.

Ideally the g'ment would provide the money for researching individual circumstances and then making an individual decision for each student as separate to the budget for the actual loans but that seems unlikely to happen sadly.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by Dbrown18)
My loan doesnt even cover my accommodation. Im not getting that money from anywhere else so i need a grant. Its that simple.

Neither will mine, but you don't see anyone throwing money at me. My parents included.

[roh]

(Original post by Astronomical)
Not every B gets an extra £400 every month. I know for a fact that my parents expect me to pay for myself and get a job; I won't be getting any handouts, and the loan I'm getting off the government won't even cover the accommodation costs.

Grants aside, I do find it annoying that not everyone can apply for the same loan, money which ultimately gets paid back anyway.

Same, I get minimum loan and my parents expect me to work, get scholarships etc. to cover my costs, but I'm sure if I rang them up and said 'I have no money to eat, please please send some' they could and would. I've never had to, but I imagine your parents would do the same if they are in the top band, whereas for other they simply cannot afford to do that without going without themselves.

And the loan doesn't always get paid back remember, it works more like a tax than commercial style loan.

[Dbrown18]

(Original post by Astronomical)
Neither will mine, but you don't see anyone throwing money at me. My parents included.

Boo who.

Thats your parents issue with not giving you money when you need it. The government cant force them to help you out, whereas my parent financially cant afford to help me out in anyway. Hence my grant.

If its the case that your parents cant help you out, then quite frankly yes, youre one of the unlucky ones stuck in the middle, who dont get enough and cant rely on support. The system isnt perfect and areas like that need to be improved. That doesnt mean the poorest should suffer.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by roh)
Same, I get minimum loan and my parents expect me to work, get scholarships etc. to cover my costs, but I'm sure if I rang them up and said 'I have no money to eat, please please send some' they could and would. I've never had to, but I imagine your parents would do the same if they are in the top band, whereas for other they simply cannot afford to do that without going without themselves.

And the loan doesn't always get paid back remember, it works more like a tax than commercial style loan.

Perhaps they would; but on the other hand I am confident I will not let that sort of situation arise. One has to question how it could arise, save for incompetence?

Indeed, but why should some students be punished because of other students failing to get jobs earning enough to pay back the loan? The current system almost forces peoples parents to pay towards university, which is wholly unfair on (i) the parents who mightn't want to and (ii) any students that wish to get through university independently for whatever reason. The fact is some people don't want to run off to daddy asking him to bail them out, and it shouldn't be the case that this is the only option.

[roh]

(Original post by Astronomical)
Perhaps they would; but on the other hand I am confident I will not let that sort of situation arise. One has to question how it could arise, save for incompetence?

Indeed, but why should some students be punished because of other students failing to get jobs earning enough to pay back the loan? The current system almost forces peoples parents to pay towards university, which is wholly unfair on (i) the parents who mightn't want to and (ii) any students that wish to get through university independently for whatever reason. The fact is some people don't want to run off to daddy asking him to bail them out, and it shouldn't be the case that this is the only option.

I don't know, I've never let it happen to me, but it could be something out of the blue. A friend got hit for 3k of medical bills in Greece on a field trip because his insurer refused to pay up until he provided proof he was sober (and it takes some time to post back a blood test) and the hospital wanted cash then. If his parents couldn't have afforded it he would have been stuck in Greece for a week with nothing to live on. If he'd not had parents who could pay what would he have done? It could also be a simpler thing such as laptop repairs or tickets home for a funeral which might blow your budget.

Also, some courses don't have normal holidays. Clinical medics for example get something like 4 weeks in later years and there's no way you can earn your living expenses in that time unless your holiday job is in Futures at Goldman Sachs or something,

So what would be your suggestion other than 'running to daddy'? I'm lucky I get scholarships but not everyone does and the SLC's budget is only a certain size.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by Dbrown18)
Boo who.

Thats your parents issue with not giving you money when you need it. The government cant force them to help you out, whereas my parent financially cant afford to help me out in anyway. Hence my grant.

If its the case that your parents cant help you out, then quite frankly yes, youre one of the unlucky ones stuck in the middle, who dont get enough and cant rely on support. The system isnt perfect and areas like that need to be improved. That doesnt mean the poorest should suffer.

The point is that the system as a whole is one big flaw.

Upon entering university, the majority of people will be 18 or older, making us legally adults. Why should we not be able to act as independent adults because of our parents' income? What my parents earn is nothing to do with me and I feel it is unfair that I cannot get as much of a loan as you can purely because of this.

What I think should happen is that the maintenance loan everyone is entitled to is the same, but is MUCH larger than it is now, circa £10000 p.a. That would be enough for everyone; no grants would be needed, and nobody would feel unfairly treated because of something out of their own control.

Spoiler:

Show

Actually the above isn't entirely true. What I really think should happen is that non-academic courses and courses with low entry requirements be scrapped, and university to be for those people who deserve to go (based on academics of course), and to be free, as it once was, for those people.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by roh)
I don't know, I've never let it happen to me, but it could be something out of the blue. A friend got hit for 3k of medical bills in Greece on a field trip because his insurer refused to pay up until he provided proof he was sober (and it takes some time to post back a blood test) and the hospital wanted cash then. If his parents couldn't have afforded it he would have been stuck in Greece for a week with nothing to live on. If he'd not had parents who could pay what would he have done? It could also be a simpler thing such as laptop repairs or tickets home for a funeral which might blow your budget.

So what would be your suggestion other than 'running to daddy'? I'm lucky I get scholarships but not everyone does and the SLC's budget is only a certain size.

The alternative to running to daddy is to have a larger loan to begin with. As I have said in another post, I'd scrap grants and make the maintenance loan for everyone the same, circa £10000 pa.

[roh]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The alternative to running to daddy is to have a larger loan to begin with. As I have said in another post, I'd scrap grants and make the maintenance loan for everyone the same, circa £10000 pa.

OK, that's fair enough.

Now where are you getting this money from? The most anyone receives now is somewhere circa 8k I believe, and that's a minority. The state budget is hardly burgeoning at the moment and that's a hell of a lot of extra money you've got to find.

Here it says there were 540,073 UCAS applications last year. Even if 100,000 don't get in (unlikely) that's still 440,000,0000 you've got to find.

[madders94]

Typical TSR "I have money so I can go to uni, why should I be forced to mix with poor people there?" attitudes coming out.

My aunt and uncle are teachers earning a large amount of money - they have a second home in France, expensive holidays all the time etc - and they are paying for their daughter's university education completely and giving her £10,000 to help with any extra costs. She goes out drinking every weekend and moans about how skint she is, and complains about the poor kids who get grants. She's never worked a day in her life and has no vision for what she wants to do in the future, she's just treating university as one big party.

I, on the other hand, am not getting any financial help from my parents, I've worked since I was thirteen, but I will need the maximum grants and loans and whatever else available to help me at university because chances are I won't be able to get a job when I'm there (the jobs in the city where I'm going are very scarce apparently, and they fill up very quickly when the students get there). I will be volunteering, to give me extra work experience ready for leaving university, and I know exactly what I want to do in the future. I hardly drink, don't smoke and I'm not a big party person.

And yet apparently I am less deserving of going to university because of something not even my parents can help.