Sorry man, but if there was ever a bad time for a spelling error, it's when discussing how people are naturally becoming more intelligent.
(Original post by Dalek1099)
there is nothing wrong with GCSEs-they are just getting higher pass rates because people are getting cleverer because of evolution meaning smarter children and adults
On topic, I heard Gove was facing fierce opposition to the proposed changes. I think I'll hold my breath a little longer than when the Daily Mail have announced it. Not that I'm suggesting anything...
Last edited by Converse Rocker; 02-07-2012 at 22:23.
I'd have absolutely no problem with my child being a carpenter if they weren't academic. It's a highly skilled well paid job, nothing wrong with being a carpenter at all. In fact my grandfather and his father were carpenters.
(Original post by Lit teacher)
Which confirms my suspicions. I have heard several people argue that university applications should be restricted, and pupils encouraged to take vocational courses, but they are always people who have been to university themselves and they look appalled when I suggest that maybe their child would rather be a carpenter.
and exactly how representative are they of the current generation of university applicants?
Social mobility isn't being improved when people are getting put through university degrees that don't improve their work prospects. A degree from an ex poly university which isn't expressly linked to companies within a specific industry adds negligible benefits to a CV. Hell I have an Arts degree from a (soon) Russell Group university and it's a struggle enough with that, although I'm still glad I did it.
Since when has 'everyone' equated to 50%? You have argued for greater social mobility in the same post as criticising a scheme which promoted social mobility. Those who go to university on average earn more, and are more likely to have children who go to university.
From what I've experienced it's largely because of a poor grasp of what the new financial system consists of. I've lost track of the amount of people I've spoke to, who have claimed stuff like working class families won't be able to afford uni under the new system and didn't even know that you paid fees after, that repayments don't kick in until a certain margin etc and that there's some decent bursaries out there. Poor Sixth Forms and Secondary Schools where these things aren't properly explained don't help matters either.
Applications in England fell by 10% this year (1.5% in Scotland)
I'm not really distorting the evidence, the people who work in those industries are a small minority of graduates each year but because their wages are so high vis the average graduate they do distort the starting salary stats.
Now you are distorting the evidence until it fits your hypothesis. What about career prospects? Working conditions?
Well yeah that's my point. Bring back Grammars and introduce a school system based upon the same principles as Gymnasiums, so that we can push up standards for the best. Teaching for those not as academically able needs reforming and made better aswell but in other ways.
The vast majority of UK state schools do not start at 8.30. You have already stated that the gymnasium is aimed at potential university applicants, so it's not a like for like comparison either.
It's not a case of pushing just the most able and leaving the others behind to rot. The point is that the most able can be pushed much harder than the less able and thus an environment which facilitates this helps them fulfill their ability. One size doesn't fit all, you can't push the best to their limits if they're in schools with many others at a different level to them.
Eh? Why shouldn't schools push everyone to do their best? Are we really to return to a time when the top sets were given all the best resources and encouragement, and those judged not clever enough aged 11 spent their time at school making pipe racks and colouring in? Not all pupils will get an A*, but the idea that teachers should not get the best out of every pupil is bizarre.
After the recent reforms, the vast majority of state run schools are academies now anyways and won't be teaching the national curriculum with the same rigidity as in the past.
I live in an area which still has Grammar schools. With very few exceptions they prevent social mobility. The wealthy parents here send their children to independent schools which do not need to teach the national curriculum, and so have time to coach pupils to pass the Grammar entrance exam. I personally know a boy in year 5 at a fee paying school who has had several lessons a week for the last year focused solely on passing the 11+. The nearby Montessori school starts 11+ coaching in year 3. The state primary teaches pupils to pass their SATs.
Slightly less wealthy parents pay for a private tutor, commonly spending £25 an hour for between 9 months and a year. Children from poorer backgrounds have to hope that their parents are able to coach them. Surveys have shown that although pupils from fee-paying primary schools are disproportionately represented amongst Grammar entries, on average they have lower levels of literacy and numeracy than their state educated peers.
And your whole example rests upon the theory that you need professional coaching to pass the 11+. I came from a working class family, I was the first one in my family to go to university, my entire training for the 11+ consisted of one Saturday where I got familiar with those stupid pattern based reasoning exams because I was unfamiliar with them. I passed my 11+ easily. If you have the ability then you don't need coaching. Incidentally I turned down a place at my local Grammar and went to a school that was in OFSTED special measures but that's an entirely different matter.
Andrew Neil actually did a brilliant documentary on the BBC a few months ago about how the decline of grammar schools has seen a massive decrease in the number of working class and state educated people in parliament. Only only a microcosm of the national as a whole, it's pretty telling. I wish it was still on the iPlayer.
Last edited by ajp100688; 09-07-2012 at 01:18.