[Christianlady]

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
You don't have to be [Insert appropriate religious label] to be a good person.

I am a good person, because it's the right thing to do. I don't need religious scripture to encourage me to do that.

Hello Mad Vlad,

That's nice, and I respect that. However, how do you know what is the "right" thing to do?

For example, do you think that Roman soldiers who would go killing people were thinking that they were good people who did the right thing? Do you think they considered themselves to be a "good soldier"?

It seems that being a good anything, or even the "right thing to do" can be relative, depending on one's objectives in life, yes?

Peace and God bless you, and if you find it offensive that I hope God blesses you, then peace and I wish you well.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by littleone271)
I don't think unrequited love is necessarily related to religion. I personally believe it's simply inherent in the human condition.

EDIT: Although I'm agnostic I still believe that I should treat others as I would like to be treated and that it's easy to be nice to people who you like and who return your kindness but what makes a really good person is somebody who is nice to everybody whether they like them or not. I like to think that in terms of treatment to others, what goes around comes around. I personally avoid being friends with people who are nasty to other people, they might be lovely towards me and I'll be nice back but if they aren't relatively nice to those they aren't fond of then they're a bad egg in my books.

Hello Little One,

One thing I love (makes me so happy and I think is good) about Jesus is that he taught unrequited love, but I do agree with you that this is not necessarily a religious trait, because many religions do not teach unrequited love, hmm?

About what you edited, I agree that what makes someone a really good person is being nice to everybody. Some people disagree with that though. I think some people think being a good person is just taking care of one's loved ones. It is interesting how "good" is relative and subjective to one's goals.


Peace and God bless you, and if you find it offensive that I hope God blesses you, then peace and I wish you well.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by miser)
Hi again ChristianLady, hope you're well.

Hello Miser

I am thank you, and I hope you are well as well.

If it matters this answer comes from an atheist. I believe that the only worthwhile pursuit in the universe is to lessen the suffering of others and make people's lives better as a consequence of one's own existence.

That is beautiful and so profound!!!

I believe Jesus teaches this, which is probably why I am so attracted to Jesus' teachings, because I do believe that helping others is one of the greatest purposes in life!

Living only for the benefit of oneself seems empty to me;

100% agreed

hedonism is a reaction from the seeming purposelessness of existence, a last resort in the face of a void, and the only reason to pursue it is precisely because you're not dead yet, in which case you may as well get it over with instead of chasing something that can never be caught.

Wow, can I quote you!?

As humans, our time will eventually run out.

Agreed (time on earth, according to my belief)

One day, all of humanity will be dead and the last stars extinguished. There is no reason for us to improve ourselves, except to make existence a better experience for ourselves and others. The moment that I decide to focus my efforts entirely on myself, I really may as well just commit suicide, because there is no point to the gratification of the ego when the only point to do so is simply that the ego exists to be gratified; it is the easier choice to remove the ego from the equation, and thereby remove the need to gratify it. The equation becomes simplified as each side cancels out. Only something external to oneself can anchor you - something which persists parallel to your existence - and not anything external, but the gratification of other people. Other people suffer, and those people are no different than I am. Easing my own pain is important; people are just as important as I am; therefore easing their pain is important too.

I think that people who strive to help others can actually help subside suicidal thoughts, because when people just think about themselves, they realize how empty that is. But, when thinking about and helping other people, that purpose gives one strength and joy in life. Seeing how one can bless another person is one of the greatest gifts of life, I think.

One's life has no discernable value to oneself; value can only be measured in terms of what it would mean if such a thing was to be lost, and the absence of oneself is an impossibility as there would be no perspective from which to determine its meaning. The value to existence can only come from other people, and the value lost to them from your non-existence. In my life I want to generate as much value as possible and to have made a difference compared to if I had not existed. That's all I want.

I very much admire your goal. I disagree with you in the fact that I believe life does have more value than just what is on earth. However, I most definitely agree that human value can be measured in how we treat other people, as well as how we treat animals. One of the teachings of Jesus that really impacts me is his teaching on how what we do for others, we do for him.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...25&version=NIV
(I boldened some.)

"31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ "

I consider it very important that Jesus considers the righteous to be people who actively care for others. Sometimes, this does not get emphasized very much by Christians. I wonder why?

To your question of whether it's not better to hate I would say that there is no purpose to it, for it benefits none, and certainly not oneself

100% agreed.

Thanks so much for sharing. I very much respect you and appreciate your posts.

Peace and God bless you, and if you find it offensive that I hope God blesses you, then peace and I wish you well.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Sammy95)
Thanks!

here's the two sites:

http://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/
http://www.redcross.org.uk/

both have links on the home page

please, please, please help us send this message accross! tell everybody you know, raise awareness in your society, do what you can!

God bless us all

Hello Sammy,

I just want to bump your post up... hopefully people will decide to help out in some way the people in Syria, and people who are hurting all around the world, including even possibly those next door.

Do you mind if I share your first and second post on this thread in my facebook?(Nobody knows who Sammy is... I don't know who you are either, but I would like to get the word out concerning helping people in Syria however we can.

Peace and God bless you

[Chronist]

(Original post by Christianlady)
For Atheists, Agnostics, and people of any faith in God or gods,

Is there any reason you can think of to do loving actions to people who don't love you?

Loving actions include talking nicely to them, helping them when they need help, maybe rescuing them from a burning building even if they have just cussed at you... you know, actions that people equate to showing love.

(This kind of love is not the eros kind, but more the philos and even the agape kind of love.)

What are the benefits of loving actions (which can help bring about loving feelings)?

Is it better to hate those who don't love you? Hate those who hate you? Is it better to cuss those who hate you, laugh when they get hurt (or hurt them), and be happy if they are in danger?

What is the best for society and the earth as a whole, in what to do to people who don't love you?

As a Christian, I believe Jesus is very clear concerning loving one's enemies. That can be really hard to do, but the reasons I think Jesus is right is because of the following:

1. The feeling of hate, when listened to, can help people act without love. This can result in people getting hurt or killed. Love helps people. Hate hurts people.
2. Hateful actions breed more hate. Hatred is the breeding ground to racism and to a cycle of revenge.
3. As Gandhi is attributed to have said, "An eye for an eye will leave everyone blind." Loving those who don't love you prevents one from hurting them, even if they hurt you first.
4. Doing loving actions for people, even if you do not feel love for them, can help a person heal from bitterness, which is self-destructive. One loving action is forgiveness, which many experience to be a freeing action that helps them heal emotionally from horrible things other people have done to them.
5. Sometimes (although not always, of course), loving a person who doesn't love you results in that person deciding you are not so bad after all, and maybe even actually loving you back.

What do you think?

Peace and God bless

Because you don't people for the purpose of being loved back. You should love for the love itself.

[Dream.On]

I hate nobody, but don't love everyone.

[miser]

(Original post by Christianlady)
I very much admire your goal. I disagree with you in the fact that I believe life does have more value than just what is on earth. However, I most definitely agree that human value can be measured in how we treat other people, as well as how we treat animals. One of the teachings of Jesus that really impacts me is his teaching on how what we do for others, we do for him.

Thanks. It is interesting that we reached more or less the same conclusion from different sources. I agree that Jesus' teachings as recorded in the Bible are progressive and often very thought-provoking, but I personally can't attribute to them any supernatural significance, and therefore have to base my reasoning differently.

(Original post by Christianlady)
I consider it very important that Jesus considers the righteous to be people who actively care for others. Sometimes, this does not get emphasized very much by Christians. I wonder why?

This is true; it is notable for example that the religious-right in America, who hold the literal truth of the Bible and Jesus' teachings, simultaneously are the most likely demographic to support punitive sentencing, draconian punishments, the death penalty, and right-wing economic policies - stances which are clearly opposite to the values Jesus teaches in the Bible (for example turning the other cheek, forgiveness, loving indiscriminately, doing little harm, giving money to the poor, and all the rest).

(Original post by Christianlady)
Thanks so much for sharing. I very much respect you and appreciate your posts.

Peace and God bless you, and if you find it offensive that I hope God blesses you, then peace and I wish you well.

You would have to try harder than that to offend me. Take care.

[Brevillemonkey]

I'm an atheist. I show people love (as in being nice, etc) because I think the golden rule is a pretty good principle to go by. As for 'love' such as saving someone I hate from a burning building, it would be because doing what's right goes beyond my personal feelings about that person. But even that doesn't apply to all situations, for instance, I probably wouldn't save a known mass murderer with a high chance of re-offending from a fire.

[Raiden10]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hate those who hate you?

What about those who run around and desert you?

[Pitt1988]

You don't need religion to be a good person. Society shares a collective set of beliefs and morals and those who fall outside of these are generally castigated, or at the least shamed.

I am not a religious person, never have been, but I'd say I'm a good person. I don't hate people, nor do I love everyone on the planet. I value and respect people's right to live, their own opinions, religions, preferences etc.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Raiden10)
What about those who run around and desert you?

They can be difficult to love, hmm?

However, what good does hatred do?

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Pitt1988)
You don't need religion to be a good person. Society shares a collective set of beliefs and morals and those who fall outside of these are generally castigated, or at the least shamed.

I am not a religious person, never have been, but I'd say I'm a good person. I don't hate people, nor do I love everyone on the planet. I value and respect people's right to live, their own opinions, religions, preferences etc.

This thread is not about being good really, even though it definitely is good to love others. It's about loving people who don't love you and why.

There are many good people who hate other people, no? Is that good, do you think, to hate people? Why or why not?

Thanks.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Chronist)
Because you don't people for the purpose of being loved back. You should love for the love itself.

Cool Answer.. I have to wait till 30 seconds are up to post this?

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Brevillemonkey)
I'm an atheist. I show people love (as in being nice, etc) because I think the golden rule is a pretty good principle to go by. As for 'love' such as saving someone I hate from a burning building, it would be because doing what's right goes beyond my personal feelings about that person. But even that doesn't apply to all situations, for instance, I probably wouldn't save a known mass murderer with a high chance of re-offending from a fire.

Cool and honest answer

If the mass murderer was sorry for murdering, would you? If the mass murderer was someone you knew and loved, would you?

[Christianlady]

(Original post by miser)
Thanks. It is interesting that we reached more or less the same conclusion from different sources. I agree that Jesus' teachings as recorded in the Bible are progressive and often very thought-provoking, but I personally can't attribute to them any supernatural significance, and therefore have to base my reasoning differently.

This is true; it is notable for example that the religious-right in America, who hold the literal truth of the Bible and Jesus' teachings, simultaneously are the most likely demographic to support punitive sentencing, draconian punishments, the death penalty, and right-wing economic policies - stances which are clearly opposite to the values Jesus teaches in the Bible (for example turning the other cheek, forgiveness, loving indiscriminately, doing little harm, giving money to the poor, and all the rest).

You would have to try harder than that to offend me. Take care.

Hello Miser,

Good points. I have to rate someone else before rating you again.

Thanks so much for the thought-provoking points.

Peace and God bless you (and I would love to joke and say something clever but there's no desire in my heart to even jokingly try to offend you)

[Brevillemonkey]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Cool and honest answer

If the mass murderer was sorry for murdering, would you? If the mass murderer was someone you knew and loved, would you?

I really dont know. If the murderer was sincere in their apology they wouldn't really be at risk of re-offending so I can sort of wriggle my way out of that one, but my problem is that if they do commit more murders that makes me just as guilty as they are.

As to what I'd do if I knew them; I don't know, it doesn't really come into play because whether or not they deserve to be saved isn't predicated on whether I know them or not.

I think I'm ceasing to make much sense, but if I knew nothing of a persons background or anything, and they were in danger, I'd say the right thing to do would be to help them in some way.

[drummer]

I believe in the law of attraction so anything to do with love such as a good deed or feeling gratitude I believe will bring more of that to yourself. Also everything we do is based on love anyway otherwise there wouldn't be any inventions or will to do anything e.g get up in the morning, make a cup of coffee etc.

[K-Elyas]

If that's what everybody believed in, nobody would love another person and so there would only be hate.

[SquaredCircle]

Empathy.

[Aoide]

I don't. I will do my best to be civil (since being rude does't have any effect other than making any problems worse) but I certainly don't have any intention to go out of my way to help people who dislike me. People should be accountable for their actions and if they behave in a way whic pushes people away they must deal with the consequences. If someone causes suffering I don't have a problem with allowing them to feel it too.

Hate doesn't have a monopoly on suffering. Both Love and hate cause suffering and enjoyment it just happens our society looks down on enjoyment caused by hate so it is often overlooked causing hate to get judged as a purely destructive emotion.

The idea that we should be nice to everyone regardless of their behaviour works if everyone follows it but if this isn't the case it just allows other to abuse you. Revenge may cause two people to suffer but I find that preferable to responding nicely and the "nice" person suffering repeatedly.