High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?
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High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Due to the inherently difficult procedure of becoming an IB and my mediocre academic acheivements (in the eyes of Oxford etc) what other jobs do companies like the Goldman Sachs offer which aren't IB? I saw security on their website but it's all rather vague and doesn't state qualifications and wages are needed. So, what other jobs that aren't so heavily maths based and have a fair wage for graduates do major banks in London and across the UK have.
Thanks. Any help from anyone would be great -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Don't know about GS specifically, but when I visited a small boutique bank all the security people were contracted from a specialised security company, i.e. not bank employees.
You could try the back office? There are legendary stories of people working their way to the trading floor from sorting mail. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?I think he's referring to Securities, as in S&T.(Original post by grinningkid)
Don't know about GS specifically, but when I visited a small boutique bank all the security people were contracted from a specialised security company, i.e. not bank employees.
You could try the back office? There are legendary stories of people working their way to the trading floor from sorting mail. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Well, I dont want go so low down, I will hopefully have a degree in IR, Economics or Engineering. But probably not at a uni like LSE, but maybe St Andrews?(Original post by grinningkid)
Don't know about GS specifically, but when I visited a small boutique bank all the security people were contracted from a specialised security company, i.e. not bank employees.
You could try the back office? There are legendary stories of people working their way to the trading floor from sorting mail. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?St Andrews?! I'm more on the S&T side, but you'll be fine with making it into IB with that, I would have thought. Or at least appearing on the radar. Personality/ surviving the interviews is the only thing that will take it from there
Check out this guy
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/emmanuel...tiou/2/261/950
though he did start at Blackrock.
I find Linkedin stalking quite useful for figuring out what you can do with different degrees
Last edited by grinningkid; 22-06-2012 at 15:01. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Yes, because we were in a recession in 2004 weren't we?(Original post by grinningkid)
St Andrews?! I'm more on the S&T side, but you'll be fine with making it into IB with that, I would have thought. Or at least appearing on the radar. Personality/ surviving the interviews is the only thing that will take it from there
Check out this guy
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/emmanuel...tiou/2/261/950
though he did start at Blackrock.
I find Linkedin stalking quite useful for figuring out what you can do with different degrees
Mate, these days are different to 8 years ago; graduate positions are getting squeezed and only the best of the best outside the top 6 get in. St Andrews is good enough, but the OP needs to be the best of his class. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?See, this is what I'm asking. Probably not good enough for IB, but better than letter sorting. What roles would you suggest?(Original post by Industrious Orca)
Yes, because we were in a recession in 2004 weren't we?
Mate, these days are different to 8 years ago; graduate positions are getting squeezed and only the best of the best outside the top 6 get in. St Andrews is good enough, but the OP needs to be the best of his class. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?More likely the opposite. Coming from a semi target, I've seen the people that have ended up with the FO jobs have been the ones that have just networked like crazy, been to all the relevant events, and have put getting internships/open days/ spring weeks before anything uni related. The people with FO jobs in my class have definitely not been the "best of the class".(Original post by Industrious Orca)
Yes, because we were in a recession in 2004 weren't we?
Mate, these days are different to 8 years ago; graduate positions are getting squeezed and only the best of the best outside the top 6 get in. St Andrews is good enough, but the OP needs to be the best of his class. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. When we say 'best in the class', we don't mean 'smartest in the class', or even just limiting this to one degree route (many students from different degrees apply). By 'best in the class' we mean that if we laid all the CVs of the different students applying from St Andrews, OP needs to be one of the best ones. St Andrews roughly gets 5-10 spring weeks a year (roughly), so they probably get more like 5 graduates into FO each year. OP needs to be up there with the best in the class in his university (say class of 2014 or whatever) in order to be getting interviews for FO.(Original post by QFin)
More likely the opposite. Coming from a semi target, I've seen the people that have ended up with the FO jobs have been the ones that have just networked like crazy, been to all the relevant events, and have put getting internships/open days/ spring weeks before anything uni related. The people with FO jobs in my class have definitely not been the "best of the class".
In relation to the grades you need to get into the banks, most have a 2.1 minimum grade; some others are happy with a 3rd if you've done internships with them before and they've really liked you. Most just want a 2.1 though, and really don't care if you got a 68 or a 73 in your university degree. There are more important things than hiring someone who can score 1 mark more than someone else when discussing the solow model etc.Last edited by Industrious Orca; 23-06-2012 at 14:10. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?By IB, i'm guessing that you mean IBD right? Well securities is even more competitive than IBD usually; either way, i wouldn't have securities as a back-up for IBD. Research is also very competitive so steer clear of that if you want something easier to get in. Generally these FO positions are the most competitive ones to get into. You can make it from St Andrews, they will get a few into FO, but of course you need to be the best in your year in terms of work experience, extra-curriculars, etc.(Original post by multiplexing-gamer)
See, this is what I'm asking. Probably not good enough for IB, but better than letter sorting. What roles would you suggest?
You should maybe look at some MO positions and BO positions if you want less competitive divisions. Look at ones like risk, finance and operations, and maybe technology if that's interesting to you; you can still be on roughly 32k to 38k at the BB banks in these positions, and they're a lot less competitive than IBD, Sec etc. From St Andrews your perfectly able to get any of these positions - you won't walk into any of them if you don't put some effort into your CV, but they're a lot more in reach than FO. If you do prefer FO, then maybe apply for IBD and then apply to some MO and BO as a back-up? -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Sorry to quote you, but just to provide some food for thought for the guy you quoted, confusing right?(Original post by Industrious Orca)
By IB, i'm guessing that you mean IBD right? Well securities is even more competitive than IBD usually; either way, i wouldn't have securities as a back-up for IBD. Research is also very competitive so steer clear of that if you want something easier to get in. Generally these FO positions are the most competitive ones to get into. You can make it from St Andrews, they will get a few into FO, but of course you need to be the best in your year in terms of work experience, extra-curriculars, etc.
You should maybe look at some MO positions and BO positions if you want less competitive divisions. Look at ones like risk, finance and operations, and maybe technology if that's interesting to you; you can still be on roughly 32k to 38k at the BB banks in these positions, and they're a lot less competitive than IBD, Sec etc. From St Andrews your perfectly able to get any of these positions - you won't walk into any of them if you don't put some effort into your CV, but they're a lot more in reach than FO. If you do prefer FO, then maybe apply for IBD and then apply to some MO and BO as a back-up?
Why not just ignore competitiveness and do what you actually want to do? If you think you won't be able to get in to IBD, reach out to M&A Advisory boutiques, if you want to do Equity Research and you can't seem to get in to BB sell-side ER, try independent research houses.
I hold the same position with universities, do something that you like as opposed to sacrificing for a 'better university'. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Yeah, he should go for what he enjoys first and foremost. He should also have a plan B, which may be a MO or BO role, or accountancy etc. If he works hard at St Andrews and builds up a decent CV then FO is achievable.(Original post by TomasK)
Sorry to quote you, but just to provide some food for thought for the guy you quoted, confusing right?
Why not just ignore competitiveness and do what you actually want to do? If you think you won't be able to get in to IBD, reach out to M&A Advisory boutiques, if you want to do Equity Research and you can't seem to get in to BB sell-side ER, try independent research houses.
I hold the same position with universities, do something that you like as opposed to sacrificing for a 'better university'.
And for your information, most advisory boutiques can be more competitive than BBs. Places like Greenhill interview 1600 people for 6 places for example.
Your stance on university depends on the person and what they want out of it. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Think less BOUTIQUE and more boutique if you know what I mean.(Original post by Industrious Orca)
Yeah, he should go for what he enjoys first and foremost. He should also have a plan B, which may be a MO or BO role, or accountancy etc. If he works hard at St Andrews and builds up a decent CV then FO is achievable.
And for your information, most advisory boutiques can be more competitive than BBs. Places like Greenhill interview 1600 people for 6 places for example.
Your stance on university depends on the person and what they want out of it. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?True, Greenhill are pretty exceptional.(Original post by TomasK)
Think less BOUTIQUE and more boutique if you know what I mean. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?I would add onto this that the "competitiveness" of certain areas is often of a vastly different nature. In IBD, there is little need for any intellectual ability/knowledge/skill so apps are distingusihed by uni/work exp. In areas like ER or AM, it is far easier to distinguish yourself as most grads, even at the top 6, don't really have a clue (often apps in this area are an afterthought to IBD apps). As said above, the best idea is to concentrate on an area your interested in and make connections, it is easy to get ahead of a disinterested person whatever uni they went to.(Original post by TomasK)
Sorry to quote you, but just to provide some food for thought for the guy you quoted, confusing right?
Why not just ignore competitiveness and do what you actually want to do? If you think you won't be able to get in to IBD, reach out to M&A Advisory boutiques, if you want to do Equity Research and you can't seem to get in to BB sell-side ER, try independent research houses.
I hold the same position with universities, do something that you like as opposed to sacrificing for a 'better university'.Last edited by crcr; 23-06-2012 at 19:31. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?je suis tout a fait d'accord.(Original post by crcr)
the best idea is to concentrate on an area your interested in and make connections, it is easy to get ahead of a disinterested person whatever uni they went to.
What other jobs at GS? It's pretty clean cut really... you're either bringing in income (S&T or IBD) or you're gearing the wheels for the people who are.
Roles in latter category - "operations" - legal & compliance, HR, financing & risk management, business continuity, press/investor relations.
Not saying these positions aren't commendable, because you are... working for GS. But if you want to take the long term view, in all probability it'll be easier getting hired at GS hailing from a small unknown place where you actually made a huge difference than from operations.
Though not impossible. (Especially if you're a lawyer.)
I guess it's the "small cog in huge machine" versus "huge cog in tiny machine" thing...
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Fixed.(Original post by grinningkid)
je suis tout a fait d'accord.
What other jobs at GS? It's pretty clean cut really... you're either bringing in income (S&T or IBD or ER) or you're gearing the wheels for the people who are.
Roles in latter category - "operations" - legal & compliance, HR, financing & risk management, business continuity, press/investor relations.
Not saying these positions aren't commendable, because you are... working for GS. But if you want to take the long term view, in all probability it'll be easier getting hired at GS hailing from a small unknown place where you actually made a huge difference than from operations.
Though not impossible. (Especially if you're a lawyer.)
I guess it's the "small cog in huge machine" versus "huge cog in tiny machine" thing...
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?(Original post by TomasK)
Fixed.
Thanks. Shall we expand it? ER, FIR, FXR... 
and also add GSAM/GSIM to that bracket. Bracket defined as parts of GS where you will actually be doing technical stuff. -
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Re: High paid jobs at Goldman Sachs, not IB?Simplify the equation and just leave R vs. ER, FICCR, thanks!(Original post by grinningkid)
Thanks. Shall we expand it? ER, FIR, FXR...
and also add GSAM/GSIM to that bracket. Bracket defined as parts of GS where you will actually be doing technical stuff.
Thanks. Shall we expand it? ER, FIR, FXR... 
