[Keckers]

It couldn't really be a bill since we completely overhauled the tax system in TSR land.

[Rakas21]

I think that we need to keep calm on this issue. Whilst i certainly agree with limiting tax-avoidance i will not target particular individuals.

I can confirm Rory that i will seek to tackle this issue however as i will not support a bill stating simply 'tax avoidance is now illegal' i am sure that you can understand that this may take some time.

What i will say is that HMRC apparently has a massive backlog at the moment so i will seek to have something done regarding that as quickly as possible.

[Smack]

It's HMRC's responsibility to ensure that taxes are collected and if there are rules that allow people to not actually have to pay them then these rules should be simplified. But I cannot ever see a government actually simplifying anything, sadly. They seem to thrive on bureaucracy and rules...

[jesusandtequila]

Organising one's taz affairs so that they pay the least amount of tax possible, whilst sticking to the rules seems perfectly acceptable. There is no moral obligation of offer up more to be taken from you than is absolutely necessary.

We should be taking action against tax avoidance (that is, simplifying the system and lowering rates), not tax avoiders (who are law-abiding citizens).

[Jarred]

We have to take a step back and think, we do we have this problem? Why are people able to avoid tax?

And the answer is simple; we have a horrifically complicated tax system. Such a complicated system is difficult to manage and is full of holes that can be exploited as they were by Jimmy Carr.

We don't have a plan to launch some kind of bill focusing solely on tax avoidance, but what we do have plans for at some point this summer is a mass simplification of the tax system which will make tax avoidance a thing of the past.

You cut the root, and the tree dies.

[RoryS]

(Original post by Keckers)
It couldn't really be a bill since we completely overhauled the tax system in TSR land.

I take your point but I think something still needs to be done.

(Original post by Rakas21)
I think that we need to keep calm on this issue. Whilst i certainly agree with limiting tax-avoidance i will not target particular individuals.

I can confirm Rory that i will seek to tackle this issue however as i will not support a bill stating simply 'tax avoidance is now illegal' i am sure that you can understand that this may take some time.

What i will say is that HMRC apparently has a massive backlog at the moment so i will seek to have something done regarding that as quickly as possible.

I believe in keeping calm also, but taking appropriate action.

I'm glad to hear that the PM promises to tackle this issue and I understand that you do not want to legislate that avoidance is now illegal. TSR Labour is working on a bill and will make it more substantial than just stating that tax avoidance is illegal.

Let's hope that the HMRC can deal with the backlog as soon as possible.

(Original post by Smack)
It's HMRC's responsibility to ensure that taxes are collected and if there are rules that allow people to not actually have to pay them then these rules should be simplified. But I cannot ever see a government actually simplifying anything, sadly. They seem to thrive on bureaucracy and rules...

I agree - they need to take responsibility and be tougher on individuals.

(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Organising one's taz affairs so that they pay the least amount of tax possible, whilst sticking to the rules seems perfectly acceptable. There is no moral obligation of offer up more to be taken from you than is absolutely necessary.

We should be taking action against tax avoidance (that is, simplifying the system and lowering rates), not tax avoiders (who are law-abiding citizens).

I agree - action against tax avoidance is a must.

(Original post by Jarred)
We have to take a step back and think, we do we have this problem? Why are people able to avoid tax?

And the answer is simple; we have a horrifically complicated tax system. Such a complicated system is difficult to manage and is full of holes that can be exploited as they were by Jimmy Carr.

We don't have a plan to launch some kind of bill focusing solely on tax avoidance, but what we do have plans for at some point this summer is a mass simplification of the tax system which will make tax avoidance a thing of the past.

You cut the root, and the tree dies.

Let's hope that this bill regarding the tax system solves this problem.

I'd personally also like to see something about this in the next Budget which should be prioritised to give the MHoC an update into the economic affairs of the government and it's economic plans, short-term and long-term.

[Mechie]

(Original post by tehFrance)
Labour, tax avoidance is legal... tax evasion is illegal, you can't do anything to Jimmy Carr or those that take part in tax avoidance.

That's the great thing about the (Model) House of Commons - you can make morally reprehensible things illegal. It frankly doesn't wash with me when any politician says "tax avoidance is legal" like it's some sort of excuse: you're in the position to make it illegal, bloody well do so.

[tehFrance]

(Original post by internetguru)
Obviously I was joking lol. You are corrupt in that you probably use money which is available to you because of tax avoidance.

That is true but it is legal so what you going to do?

As for those crying 'oh noes', I don't get why you care so much? it is that persons hard earn money why should the state take the majority away? those on the right that are in favour of this should reconsider whether they are on the right at all... making the rich pay is not an option.

[tehFrance]

(Original post by davidmarsh01)
That's the great thing about the (Model) House of Commons - you can make morally reprehensible things illegal. It frankly doesn't wash with me when any politician says "tax avoidance is legal" like it's some sort of excuse: you're in the position to make it illegal, bloody well do so.

I am sure if you were in the position of someone with a lot of money, you'd do the same... bunch of hypocrites, at least I partake and don't call on it to be made illegal

[internetguru]

(Original post by tehFrance)
That is true but it is legal so what you going to do?

As for those crying 'oh noes', I don't get why you care so much? it is that persons hard earn money why should the state take the majority away? those on the right that are in favour of this should reconsider whether they are on the right at all... making the rich pay is not an option.

What am I going to do? Make sure it is illegal when I can on TSR MHoC. In real life nothing, if I was in your situation I wouldn't care either I'm as corrupt as they come.

The state shouldn't take the majority of it but 40% over a certain high amount sounds reasonable. I don't find it fair that those on ridiculous salaries can avoid tax altogether whilst middle income earners are sacrificing their 40%.

[Jarred]

(Original post by RoryS)
I take your point but I think something still needs to be done.



I believe in keeping calm also, but taking appropriate action.

I'm glad to hear that the PM promises to tackle this issue and I understand that you do not want to legislate that avoidance is now illegal. TSR Labour is working on a bill and will make it more substantial than just stating that tax avoidance is illegal.

Let's hope that the HMRC can deal with the backlog as soon as possible.



I agree - they need to take responsibility and be tougher on individuals.



I agree - action against tax avoidance is a must.



Let's hope that this bill regarding the tax system solves this problem.

I'd personally also like to see something about this in the next Budget which should be prioritised to give the MHoC an update into the economic affairs of the government and it's economic plans, short-term and long-term.

We are planning a Budget and what I mentioned will be introduced in there, much of what we want to put in has already been discussed among us, just needs writing up. We'd have got it out a lot, lot sooner but I've had a massive load of A2 exams since mid-May (22.5 hours so far, with one final 3 hour exam on Tuesday so my MHOC life has had to take a backseat) once it's all out of the way though my efforts shall be focused upon getting the Budget done.

[TheHansa]

Aye

(Original post by tehFrance)
Labour, tax avoidance is legal... tax evasion is illegal, you can't do anything to Jimmy Carr or those that take part in tax avoidance.

Hence the need to close the loopholes; there's no point in even having a competitively low rate of tax (something I sure you would advocate) if it can be sidestepped altogether. The right wing argument is 'well we need lower taxes because that will benefit the economy leading to more tax being collected when the economy grows' whilst this is a false dichotomy anyway because economic freedom can still be achieved alongside higher taxation to fund a healthy public sector as the Swedes well know, but tax loopholes render this argument useless because even if the economy grows it's a loophole rather than a tax reduction, the person is avoiding paying tax.

Green Party

[paperclip]

Whilst i support this i find it quite funny that it took an article in the times in order to bring this into politicians eyes. It is quite telling how out of touch politicians are when this is exactly what UKuncut have been saying for over a year now. Thankfully, the growth of UKuncut was very rapid because it is a message everyone can identify with, and has been a rather successful campaign, i am glad that this is being discussed. However, i am quite intrigued that Jimmy Carr was used, what about Philip Green, who was appointed as a spending advisor by the government? Actually, this image summarises the hypocrisy of RL politicians because of course, tax avoidance isn't a problem when you're donating large sums of money to the Conservative party:

[RoryS]

(Original post by Jarred)
We are planning a Budget and what I mentioned will be introduced in there, much of what we want to put in has already been discussed among us, just needs writing up. We'd have got it out a lot, lot sooner but I've had a massive load of A2 exams since mid-May (22.5 hours so far, with one final 3 hour exam on Tuesday so my MHOC life has had to take a backseat) once it's all out of the way though my efforts shall be focused upon getting the Budget done.

Great, I look forward to seeing it.

Good luck for the A2 exams, I understand the need to revise and do well.

[Birchington]

Aye. Tax evasion is morally reprehensible, and more needs to be done to prosecute tax dodging individuals and corporations.

[paperclip]

(Original post by Birchington)
Aye. Tax evasion is morally reprehensible, and more needs to be done to prosecute tax dodging individuals and corporations.

How do you feel about tax avoision, which is what this motion targets?

Tax evasion = illegal
Tax avoision = legal loopholes

[Birchington]

(Original post by paperclip)
How do you feel about tax avoision, which is what this motion targets?

Tax evasion = illegal
Tax avoision = legal loopholes

Legal loopholes should be illegal. Avoision and evadence are not acceptable

[paperclip]

(Original post by Birchington)
Legal loopholes should be illegal. Avoision and evadence are not acceptable

How do you feel about your real life counterparts appointing a serial tax avoider into governmental positions?

[Jarred]

(Original post by RoryS)
Great, I look forward to seeing it.

Good luck for the A2 exams, I understand the need to revise and do well.

Thanks

[Birchington]

(Original post by paperclip)
How do you feel about your real life counterparts appointing a serial tax avoider into governmental positions?

Phillip Green? Hate the guy, and it was a bad appointment by the government.