[TopHat]

(Original post by JPKC)
Why not use this first argument in RL?

Because IRL if we abolish minimum wage, people would be forced to work for much lower wages than they would voluntarily, because if they don't get the money, they have an absolutely appalling standard of life. So, it's still not great for income equality, but that's a necessary trade-off for stopping people being exploited.

[PierceBrosnan]

Sounds like a very interesting endeavor seeing as I identify as a social Liberal. The only qualm I have is a completely cosmetic one and that is the logo.



This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my HTC Wildfire S A510e

[Ysolt]

Im okay to have my name taken off the list because the past few days has brought back my trust in the lib dems, good luck if you want to continue Addzter but I recommend that you stay in the party and work within it to help social liberalism in the lib dems. Good luck!

[misterxninja]

I was a former Lib Dem "nasty righty" and I have left the TSR Lib Dems in the interest of its unity and not fitting in with its shift to the left in policy or ideology anymore. So all those who were interested in the TSR Social Liberal party I suggest join the TSR Lib Dems, since this party was kind of formed because I was considered a nutty righty by some TSR Lib Dems, which made the TSR Lib Dems not lefty enough for some members liking. So I have since left and the TSR Lib Dems have elected a lefty as the new leader I would recommend you join the TSR Lib Dems.

Please PM the new leader Thunder_Chunky

(Original post by Thunder_Chunky)
X

[paperclip]

(Original post by TopHat)
Just noticed this now. I would like to note two things; first of which is that in real life I'm very much in favour of a minimum wage, and second of which is that minimum wage in TSRland is making income inequality worse, not better, by keeping people whose labour is worth less than the minimum wage unemployed. I discussed this in the thread we had on it. You're making the moderately vulnerable better off at the cost of the extremely vulnerable. So, to say that I've forgotten about reducing income inequality, when my primary motive behind arguing that position was helping the most vulnerable into getting incomes in the first place, is just a downright lie. Feel free to disagree with me, and I'd welcome proof that minimum wage doesn't just increase income inequality, but don't assign beliefs or ideas to me which I do not hold - misrepresentation is rather tiresome.

So what, only your interpretation is correct?

Oh thank you Mr TopHat, what should the socialist party do next? Come back to me when you can get your own party to agree with you.

You are a Liberalist in terms of your economic beliefs. Do you know anything about socialism? For a start, we tend to argue that workers should control the means of production

You are a Liberalist in your agenda to plot the moderately vulnerable against the extremely vulnerable.

The citizens income has already passed. There may be arguments in the above paragraph that support the citizens income, but there is not a single argument in there that supports removing the minimum wage. The argument in favour of removing the minimum wage revolves around price competition. A liberalist argument. You want the working class to compete with the underclass in a race to the bottom for a wage, thereby harming both.

A true socialist would look at helping the poor through a combination of protectionist strategies, such as the minimum wage, and preventionist strategies, such as education/rehabilitation.

You must be real indoctrinated to not see that.

[paperclip]

Socialism is not accepting some state handout. Socialism is not paying a person to dig a hole and paying another to fill it. Socialism is about empowering workers, the lowest strata of society to have greater self determination, and realising the benefits this has mentally and physically on individuals, and collectively in society. Socialism isn't just about progressive taxing. Socialism is about working as a collective, a unified body, to achieve shared aims and goals. Socialists believe in the power of society, whether it involves collective bargaining or working together in the community. Socialists shout for the rights of those in need, not out of greed or a desire for luxury, but out of a drive for fairness. Yes, socialism does involve redistributive taxation, this is out of recognition that the workers themselves are the ones that created the wealth. Socialists realise that wealth does breed wealth, as any logical person would agree. Socialism involves funding for the arts out of recognition of the non monetary wealth it generates in society. Socialism has a love for subsidies because without some support and nurture, we end up with music manufactured to be popular *cough*Bieber*cough* and whilst i don't like all of it, i guess i am a bit of a Functionalist in this regard...Others do, love live and let live *shrugs*

Cyclopsrock will vomit when he sees this

[misterxninja]

(Original post by paperclip)
Socialism is not accepting some state handout. Socialism is not paying a person to dig a hole and paying another to fill it. Socialism is about empowering workers, the lowest strata of society to have greater self determination, and realising the benefits this has mentally and physically on individuals, and collectively in society. Socialism isn't just about progressive taxing. Socialism is about working as a collective, a unified body, to achieve shared aims and goals. Socialists believe in the power of society, whether it involves collective bargaining or working together in the community. Socialists shout for the rights of those in need, not out of greed or a desire for luxury, but out of a drive for fairness. Yes, socialism does involve redistributive taxation, this is out of recognition that the workers themselves are the ones that created the wealth. Socialists realise that wealth does breed wealth, as any logical person would agree. Socialism involves funding for the arts out of recognition of the non monetary wealth it generates in society. Socialism has a love for subsidies because without some support and nurture, we end up with music manufactured to be popular *cough*Bieber*cough* and whilst i don't like all of it, i guess i am a bit of a Functionalist in this regard...Others do, love live and let live *shrugs*

Cyclopsrock will vomit when he sees this

LOL! LOL! LOL!

Culmination of Socialism placed in reality:

Say no more...

[paperclip]

(Original post by misterxninja)
LOL! LOL! LOL!

Culmination of Socialism placed in reality:

Say no more...

Bought to you by the same person who posts such exquisitely quality posts as:

(Original post by misterxninja)
Glad to see TC continues to call back attack dogs since he has no fight in him himself and cannot fight his own battles - WEAKNESS.

[Mechie]

(Original post by misterxninja)
LOL! LOL! LOL!

Culmination of Socialism placed in reality:

Say no more...

Christ sake, how rude can you get? Paperclip posts a reasonably long and well thought out post, and you respond with "LOL! LOL! LOL!"? That's just extremely rude and ignorant.

[paperclip]

(Original post by davidmarsh01)
Christ sake, how rude can you get? Paperclip posts a reasonably long and well thought out post, and you respond with "LOL! LOL! LOL!"? That's just extremely rude and ignorant.

Merci beacoup.

I do always wonder, do right wingers think heaven has markets?

[misterxninja]

(Original post by davidmarsh01)
Christ sake, how rude can you get? Paperclip posts a reasonably long and well thought out post, and you respond with "LOL! LOL! LOL!"? That's just extremely rude and ignorant.

Socialism is rude ignorant, self interested divisive why should it be spared respect or courtesy when it enjoys holding the national interest to a gun point acting "Give us money or we will strike and damage the economy even more...": like a protection racket for those well off cosy pensioned public sector, who have to take a cut back in there pension privileges but still get pension privileges and go mental about it. That is Socialism special interests in some not others, that is why Socialism has little part in British society now and why Old Labour had to ditch Socialism and go New Labour, because people dislike it and don't think it is fair at all. It hardly stood up for everyday people did it, or else the working class would of carried on voting Old Labour - they didn't, why because Socialism produced bad economies we all suffered under and encouraged idolism.

Why should I entertain the post and drag out a debate about it, let paperclip have this one I thought with the novelistic approach of the post. Thought I would let Paperclip have a little moment and have those beliefs, contrary was more respectful. It made me laugh hard though and will continue to do so for the rest of the day thought I would share it made me laugh that is about it. But perhaps you are right, maybe I should of privately laughed and said nothing of the matter - duly noted. For that I'm sorry for offending you and your ideology also in my post. Though there is much truth of Socialism and Hitler so many parallels.

[misterxninja]

(Original post by paperclip)
Socialism is not accepting some state handout. Socialism is not paying a person to dig a hole and paying another to fill it. Socialism is about empowering workers, the lowest strata of society to have greater self determination, and realising the benefits this has mentally and physically on individuals, and collectively in society. Socialism isn't just about progressive taxing. Socialism is about working as a collective, a unified body, to achieve shared aims and goals. Socialists believe in the power of society, whether it involves collective bargaining or working together in the community. Socialists shout for the rights of those in need, not out of greed or a desire for luxury, but out of a drive for fairness. Yes, socialism does involve redistributive taxation, this is out of recognition that the workers themselves are the ones that created the wealth. Socialists realise that wealth does breed wealth, as any logical person would agree. Socialism involves funding for the arts out of recognition of the non monetary wealth it generates in society. Socialism has a love for subsidies because without some support and nurture, we end up with music manufactured to be popular *cough*Bieber*cough* and whilst i don't like all of it, i guess i am a bit of a Functionalist in this regard...Others do, love live and let live *shrugs*

Cyclopsrock will vomit when he sees this

Paperclip I'm sorry it was beautifully worded emotionally driven piece that has mass appeal. I will try to respect such beliefs in future and my humble apologies. It was good for a "socialist" *just playing with you this time*

Sorry

[paperclip]

(Original post by misterxninja)
Paperclip I'm sorry it was beautifully worded emotionally driven piece that has mass appeal. I will try to respect such beliefs in future and my humble apologies. It was good for a "socialist" *just playing with you this time*

Sorry

Heh, Socialism is an emotional philosophy, one that favours collecting uncollected tax receipts above making under twenty five year olds homeless. I think thats a pretty good thing to get emotional about, like. Anyway:

(Original post by misterxninja)
For that I'm sorry for offending you and your ideology also in my post. Though there is much truth of Socialism and Hitler so many parallels.

I call Godwins law

The post wasnt for you anyway, it was to TopHat who seems to believe himself to be a socialist but has no idea of the philosophies it preaches. I was just saying what socialism is to me.

[misterxninja]

(Original post by paperclip)
Heh, Socialism is an emotional philosophy, one that favours collecting uncollected tax receipts above making under twenty five year olds homeless. I think thats a pretty good thing to get emotional about, like. Anyway:

Oh I agree Cameron has it very wrong, the welfare system has to change though there is truth in the sentiment it is far too easy to sponge. Yes uncollected tax receipts on your side for what is right.

The post wasnt for you anyway, it was to TopHat who seems to believe himself to be a socialist but has no idea of the philosophies it preaches. I was just saying what socialism is to me.

Yea I know sorry I agree. Fair enough is a lot of that going on lately in ideologies. Yea it is very emotive indeed, emotion is good in politics to a point and degree for sake of vision but carefully moderated with rationality I would.

It was very well written and expressed, sorry I found it so funny. Least some Socialists are actual believers and have such beautiful visions I guess that I can respect regardless of agreement with the ideology itself in principles

[CyclopsRock]

(Original post by paperclip)
Socialism is not accepting some state handout. Socialism is not paying a person to dig a hole and paying another to fill it. Socialism is about empowering workers, the lowest strata of society to have greater self determination, and realising the benefits this has mentally and physically on individuals, and collectively in society. Socialism isn't just about progressive taxing. Socialism is about working as a collective, a unified body, to achieve shared aims and goals. Socialists believe in the power of society, whether it involves collective bargaining or working together in the community. Socialists shout for the rights of those in need, not out of greed or a desire for luxury, but out of a drive for fairness. Yes, socialism does involve redistributive taxation, this is out of recognition that the workers themselves are the ones that created the wealth. Socialists realise that wealth does breed wealth, as any logical person would agree. Socialism involves funding for the arts out of recognition of the non monetary wealth it generates in society. Socialism has a love for subsidies because without some support and nurture, we end up with music manufactured to be popular *cough*Bieber*cough* and whilst i don't like all of it, i guess i am a bit of a Functionalist in this regard...Others do, love live and let live *shrugs*

Cyclopsrock will vomit when he sees this

Hey! I think most people would agree with most of that. The only thing is that I think that should all happen voluntarily between people (Afterall, some of my colleagues at work do the same job as me, but we band together to make bigger and better projects - we work together, because we can achieve more, even if our actual incentive is selfish). What I think is lacking from that paragraph (though you touch on it re: redistributive wealth) is that you should append, to the end of each of your sentences that define what Socialism is, "through the organisation and financial management of the state."

[iSoftie]

Guys surely as a socialist party we should aim to change education system I mean you can't sack off the other students in government schools and put them in through a scholarship in a public schools!

Like all the governments have agreed in the past we should make state schools have a higher standard and bump off private schools! Just like other European countries

[Rakas21]

May i suggest that all of members actually join the socialist party, we do not need another.

[iSoftie]

^ joy kill...