Outstanding Library Fines + Graduating
Graduating in July and I have £7.20 outstanding library fines. i feel like I've paid enough of Hallward's extortionate short loan fees this year so if I can get away with it I'd prefer not to pay. Some people have told me they prevent you from graduating with any outstanding fines. Is this true or just something of an urban threatening myth to make sure people pay? Seems a bit extreme. I haven't even received any threatening emails (yet). I know it's only £7 but...
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Original post by Division St.
Graduating in July and I have £7.20 outstanding library fines. i feel like I've paid enough of Hallward's extortionate short loan fees this year so if I can get away with it I'd prefer not to pay. Some people have told me they prevent you from graduating with any outstanding fines. Is this true or just something of an urban threatening myth to make sure people pay? Seems a bit extreme. I haven't even received any threatening emails (yet). I know it's only £7 but...
Granted I don't know your unis actual policy, but surely it's easier to just pay it?!
Probably
Don't pay it until they actually propose that ultimatum.
Original post by whyumadtho
Don't pay it until they actually propose that ultimatum.
Only if it's a fine that doesn't increase by every day it's overdue, though. If, by the time you graduate it'll be like double that you might as well pay it now?
Original post by Xiomara
Only if it's a fine that doesn't increase by every day it's overdue, though. If, by the time you graduate it'll be like double that you might as well pay it now?
Yeah that's right. I think the plan is to at least wait to get a threatening email/letter. As I say, Hallward's taken enough of my money with their extortionate fines. Hoping for a (small) victory for the little man.
If the uni's policy is that they don't let you graduate with outstanding fines then they will just defer your graduation till the next sitting (probably December), and if you still haven't paid off then, then they'll defer it till the following June sitting, and so on.
You will be a graduand as you have completed your course but you won't be an official graduate as they won't have conferred your degree on you and you won't be able to appeal against it or take them to court etc if it is in their policy that they don't let students graduate with outstanding fines.
They aren't going to say "oh well look this guy only owes a few quid so lets write it off" otherwise what would be the point of that policy - its pretty normal for students to be carrying over fines through their course and then settle up their outstanding account when it's time to graduate. You aren't going to be an unusual case they will just think you are being a stubborn smart booty and delay your graduation.
It's going to be a hard battle for you to win as if you really put your foot down and want to get publicity, going to the papers etc, then everyone will go LOL look at this cheapscate he sacrificed his graduation for £7
You will be a graduand as you have completed your course but you won't be an official graduate as they won't have conferred your degree on you and you won't be able to appeal against it or take them to court etc if it is in their policy that they don't let students graduate with outstanding fines.
They aren't going to say "oh well look this guy only owes a few quid so lets write it off" otherwise what would be the point of that policy - its pretty normal for students to be carrying over fines through their course and then settle up their outstanding account when it's time to graduate. You aren't going to be an unusual case they will just think you are being a stubborn smart booty and delay your graduation.
It's going to be a hard battle for you to win as if you really put your foot down and want to get publicity, going to the papers etc, then everyone will go LOL look at this cheapscate he sacrificed his graduation for £7
I would like to hear the result of this, I have £8.60 in unpaid fines and graduate next year 
I have more than £8.60 in printer credit, but it seems they don't want to take it from that - despite the fact I can't claim that back
Edit: I don't see anything on the uni website about library fines stopping you graduating - I know any fees from sports centre / societies / tuition fees do, but library fines are on a different payment system.
I have more than £8.60 in printer credit, but it seems they don't want to take it from that - despite the fact I can't claim that back
Edit: I don't see anything on the uni website about library fines stopping you graduating - I know any fees from sports centre / societies / tuition fees do, but library fines are on a different payment system.
(edited 11 years ago)
You've 'had enough of extortionate fines', how about actually returning a book on time and not impeding other people's study? You wouldn't have to pay the fines then.
Your degree classification will come up as cannot be certified or something like that, and you won't be able to receive results or graduate until you pay up. Just pay the fine, it's not like you weren't aware of the costs involved when you started Uni - and I'm assuming they are fairly lenient with allowing you to take out yet more books when you're already owing the library money, so it's not like they are being extremely harsh.
Your degree classification will come up as cannot be certified or something like that, and you won't be able to receive results or graduate until you pay up. Just pay the fine, it's not like you weren't aware of the costs involved when you started Uni - and I'm assuming they are fairly lenient with allowing you to take out yet more books when you're already owing the library money, so it's not like they are being extremely harsh.
Original post by aliphatic
You've 'had enough of extortionate fines', how about actually returning a book on time and not impeding other people's study? You wouldn't have to pay the fines then.
Your degree classification will come up as cannot be certified or something like that, and you won't be able to receive results or graduate until you pay up. Just pay the fine, it's not like you weren't aware of the costs involved when you started Uni - and I'm assuming they are fairly lenient with allowing you to take out yet more books when you're already owing the library money, so it's not like they are being extremely harsh.
Your degree classification will come up as cannot be certified or something like that, and you won't be able to receive results or graduate until you pay up. Just pay the fine, it's not like you weren't aware of the costs involved when you started Uni - and I'm assuming they are fairly lenient with allowing you to take out yet more books when you're already owing the library money, so it's not like they are being extremely harsh.
I managed to rack up ~£9 in fines, when borrowing four books for my dissertation, they were never recalled, but twice over the year (out of the 4/5 times I needed to renew them), I renewed them two days late when I got the 'books overdue' notice. How did I impede anyone else's study at all?
You can take out books still until you reach £10 in fines, then your library card is suspended until the balance is paid off. At 30p/day/book, that is 34 book days before you can't borrow any-more, so if you have 10 books out (easy enough for a final year arts student, I had 4 for my dissertation and I am a CompSci person), that is only 4 days overdue and you can't borrow any more. Not that lenient tbh.
The fines are there for a very good reason, particularly for short loan books. If there were no fines, or they were too small, then there would be little incentive to bring books back anywhere near on time, and it affects the learning of other students. I hear so many complaints about this.
Of course there's debate around number of books, ebooks, and whatnot, but library fines are unfortunately a necessity.
Having outstanding fines can prevent your graduation. For the sake of £7, do you really want to risk having your graduation deferred and having to tell your ticket holders that they can't come and will have to wait until later in the year?
Of course there's debate around number of books, ebooks, and whatnot, but library fines are unfortunately a necessity.
Having outstanding fines can prevent your graduation. For the sake of £7, do you really want to risk having your graduation deferred and having to tell your ticket holders that they can't come and will have to wait until later in the year?
(edited 11 years ago)
As a history student who frequently reached the upper limits of the library book allowance, I can empathise with you. What I cannot reason with however, is the fact that you did not take the time to perhaps write down notes on the sections you needed from whatever book you were using? Given you had the time to renew said book four or five times, one would assume that you would have had more than enough time to do so.... it's not like you had a limit imposed of you of a week, and that was that.
I took many books out for my history dissertation and always had the common sense to follow the guidelines and pay attention to the deadlines. The rules are there for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I have been screwed over by people not returning books on time, or just taking them off the shelf and not actually checking them out - and this is just another extension of this. How are the library to know that the book you are in possession of isn't wanted, or may be wanted in future, by anyone else? If they removed all semblance of library return dates and fines, it would just be a complete and utter free for all. It's not one rule for you, and one for everyone else - sorry.
I took many books out for my history dissertation and always had the common sense to follow the guidelines and pay attention to the deadlines. The rules are there for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I have been screwed over by people not returning books on time, or just taking them off the shelf and not actually checking them out - and this is just another extension of this. How are the library to know that the book you are in possession of isn't wanted, or may be wanted in future, by anyone else? If they removed all semblance of library return dates and fines, it would just be a complete and utter free for all. It's not one rule for you, and one for everyone else - sorry.
Original post by rmhumphries
I managed to rack up ~£9 in fines, when borrowing four books for my dissertation, they were never recalled, but twice over the year (out of the 4/5 times I needed to renew them), I renewed them two days late when I got the 'books overdue' notice. How did I impede anyone else's study at all?
You can take out books still until you reach £10 in fines, then your library card is suspended until the balance is paid off. At 30p/day/book, that is 34 book days before you can't borrow any-more, so if you have 10 books out (easy enough for a final year arts student, I had 4 for my dissertation and I am a CompSci person), that is only 4 days overdue and you can't borrow any more. Not that lenient tbh.
You can take out books still until you reach £10 in fines, then your library card is suspended until the balance is paid off. At 30p/day/book, that is 34 book days before you can't borrow any-more, so if you have 10 books out (easy enough for a final year arts student, I had 4 for my dissertation and I am a CompSci person), that is only 4 days overdue and you can't borrow any more. Not that lenient tbh.
Original post by aliphatic
As a history student who frequently reached the upper limits of the library book allowance, I can empathise with you. What I cannot reason with however, is the fact that you did not take the time to perhaps write down notes on the sections you needed from whatever book you were using? Given you had the time to renew said book four or five times, one would assume that you would have had more than enough time to do so.... it's not like you had a limit imposed of you of a week, and that was that.
I took many books out for my history dissertation and always had the common sense to follow the guidelines and pay attention to the deadlines. The rules are there for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I have been screwed over by people not returning books on time, or just taking them off the shelf and not actually checking them out - and this is just another extension of this. How are the library to know that the book you are in possession of isn't wanted, or may be wanted in future, by anyone else? If they removed all semblance of library return dates and fines, it would just be a complete and utter free for all. It's not one rule for you, and one for everyone else - sorry.
I took many books out for my history dissertation and always had the common sense to follow the guidelines and pay attention to the deadlines. The rules are there for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I have been screwed over by people not returning books on time, or just taking them off the shelf and not actually checking them out - and this is just another extension of this. How are the library to know that the book you are in possession of isn't wanted, or may be wanted in future, by anyone else? If they removed all semblance of library return dates and fines, it would just be a complete and utter free for all. It's not one rule for you, and one for everyone else - sorry.
I think this may be based on the differences between subjects - I needed to keep the books out, as I was referring to different sections while doing the coding part of my dissertation (the coding part stretching across almost the whole year), and also certain parts of the book were important for different parts of my write-up - so it was handy to keep the books to hand - otherwise I would have needed to make notes on almost the entire book, and in some cases having the whole chapter(s), not just notes was needed. I would have had to return them if they had of been requested back of course; but I had the advantage that they had a very narrow field of usefulness, so they were very useful to me, but not useful to nearly everyone else - unless they were working on a project like mine (which I knew no-one at undergrad level was).
I just find it annoying I now owe almost £10 because of forgetting twice to return (or renew) books on time; when I had them out for a long time, and I renew them very close to the date they were due. I fully agree with fines on short loans (which by their nature should be returned/renewed quickly), and when a book has been recalled (as then you know someone else needs the book); but I feel that fines should be smaller, or possibly null for a short amount of time around the normal return date, and then as normal after a small grace period. As for people taking books without checking them out / the library knowing if a book is needed - that is why the recall / reserve system is in place, so if a book isn't on the shelf / is out on loan, you can reserve it, and the library get it for you - which you can then borrow (and note I feel that fines are reasonable once a book is required by someone else).
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by whyumadtho
The fines only accrue when there are outstanding overdue books.
Oh, right, I understand now.
The Quality Manual says:
No student who is in debt to the University is permitted to graduate from the University. Once the debt has been cleared the degree will be conferred at the next ceremony.
I think that's fairly clear.
No student who is in debt to the University is permitted to graduate from the University. Once the debt has been cleared the degree will be conferred at the next ceremony.
I think that's fairly clear.
It's just £7 and to be fair, we all knew the rules when we got here.
I love how I'm some sort of inconsiderate bastard who takes pleasure in impeding the study of others. I've had 3 or 4 fines over the course of my university studies, while taking out 250 books. I think that's rather impressive. One was an extortionate £20 because I took out 2 short loans on a Friday and by Monday morning completely forgot and didn't remember until Tuesday (although as I told the woman n the desk, if they'd emailed me an overdue notice at 10am Monday I would have realised my mistake immediately as I check my emails regularly). What is it, 80p an hour for a short loan? That's extortionate. They don't send those emails because they must make thousands of pounds a year out of fines. These things happen, I should have returned the books but when you're up to your ears in dissertation woes you can forget some things. The £7.20 was two small fines. I'm a well organised and anyone who gets through their entire university life without a library fine is a saint. Anyone who gets through their entire uni career without a fine must be a saint or never go to Hallward.
Thanks. That's what I needed to know.
Original post by alex-hs
The Quality Manual says:
No student who is in debt to the University is permitted to graduate from the University. Once the debt has been cleared the degree will be conferred at the next ceremony.
I think that's fairly clear.
No student who is in debt to the University is permitted to graduate from the University. Once the debt has been cleared the degree will be conferred at the next ceremony.
I think that's fairly clear.
Thanks. That's what I needed to know.
(edited 11 years ago)
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