[rawkus]

(Original post by anarchism101)
I wholeheartedly agree that the US and NATO only got involved because Serbia was defying the West, but that doesn't make Serbia or Milosevic the 'good guys' any more than it does Saddam or Assad.

That is a fair observation but wholly irrelevant because I neither said nor implied that. International politics is never good vs bad, its either bad vs worse or worse vs worse. If you are going to support Milosevic and Serbia for what became a very brutal and violent crackdown on an insurgency then by the same footing one should find no fault with the brutal way in which coalition troops burst into Iraqi and Afghani towns and villages just on the basis that some weak intelligence pointed that some millitants may have been there.

[Clessus]

(Original post by Zürich)
Kosovo is very significant in Serbian history. It has only had an Albanian majority relatively recently, because of Albanian migration. Logically, if Kosovo should be independent as it is majority non-Serbian then if the inhabitants of 'non-British majority' areas of Britain declared independence, Bradford, Leicester, large parts of London, etc, then they should also be granted it. Likewise Turkish majority areas of Germany, Arab majority areas of France and Moroccan-majority areas of the Netherlands can also become independent.

So which is it? Either none can be independent(including Kosovo), or they all can be?

This is essentially what the Serbs are saying. Just because Albanians move into a part of Serbia, doesn't make it any less Serbian.

What is this babble? Although Serbian nationalists like to claim that Kosova is equivilant to Bradford or London seceeding, this is totally false and disengenious.

The Albanians have had a majority in Kosova since before it was conquered by Serbia in 1912-13 (not only since after the unfortunate ethnic cleansing of Serbs after the 1998-1999 war, as some posters have claimed), and since before it first formally joined modern Serbia in 1945. Kosova was not simply part of Serbia; it was a member of the Yugoslav Federation in its own right and a semi-sovereign entity under Tito, with most of the attributes of statehood. So you cannot legitimately describe it as a "Bradfordstan".

By way of comparison, I entirely recognise that Vojvodina is Serbian, even though Hungarian "historical" claims to it are at least as strong as Serbia's "historical" claims on Kosova, and only joined Serbia in the twentieth century; and even though the Serb majority in Vojvodina was created through Communist ethnic-cleansing and colonisation schemes after World War II. The Serbian majority in Vojvodina, and the Albanian majority in Kosova, are realities we simply have to accept.

Since, they couldn't try Serbians like Milosevic due to a lack of evidence or since they were in hiding, they manufactured a situation where they could remove him or severely damage Serbian power.

Yup, the "Kosovo problem was engineered by the West". No doubt the West is somehow responsible for the Serbian Army's conquest of Kosova in 1912; for the massive atrocities this involved; for the ethnic cleansing and colonisation between 1918-1941, for the reign of Serbian police terror in Kosova from 1945-68; for Milosevic's illegal abrogation of Kosova's autonomy, against the will of its inhabitants; for Milosevic's use of military force to crush peaceful Albanian demonstrations in 1989 and impose police rule and for the ethnic cleansing of 1998-1999.

It isnt that ridiculous. The nationalists of Albania still claim large portions of surrounding areas on the grounds of history.

Untrue, they claim them on the basis that Albanians form the majority in these areas (mainly western Macedonia and small areas of Serbia). I do not support them in these irredentionist claims, but it is hardly the same as claiming them on purely historical grounds (like your other examples).

If you are going to support Milosevic and Serbia for what became a very brutal and violent crackdown on an insurgency then by the same footing one should find no fault with the brutal way in which coalition troops burst into Iraqi and Afghani towns and villages just on the basis that some weak intelligence pointed that some millitants may have been there.

Oh please, while the coalition has not covered itself in glory with its policy in Iraq and Afghanistan, their conduct certainly does not warrent comparison with the totally lawless and criminal behaviour of the Slobodan Milosevic regime.