[RobertWhite]

Double post because I put it in the wrong forum


I've not been enjoying Psychology very much because there's too much theory involved for my liking. I know you don't need a law degree to become a solicitor and it's quite a common path to go in from another degree. So, I'm not sure whether I should bare the next two years of Psychology and then try, or switch degrees now. I've heard Law can be quite dull (some parts looked interesting to me and others did not) so I don't want to jump into a Law degree and end up hating it. However, if I really wanted to be a solicitor I'd want to be in the best position possible...

Another worry of mine is actually being able to get onto the Southampton Law course which I understand is quite competitive. I have emailed the department which haven't yet got back to me (I don't even know if they work when term has finished?). Do you think I'm in a fairly good position with these current qualifications? (not sure if in the right subjects or not, I expect they're decent for a Law degree?)

A2:
Psychology: A*
Geography: A*
Philosophy: A

First year Psychology: 68% average


Thanks for your opinions guys.

[Tsunami2011]

wasn't you dissing solicitors not long ago?

Barristers are more highly trained than solicitors, earn more money and is deemed a harder job as a whole and to get into. You're going to need to get over that if you want to be a solicitor. Barristers are 'superior' in a sense yet you still play a vital role.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by Tsunami2011)
wasn't you dissing solicitors not long ago?

No, not at all. I just provided my opinions matter of factually. I was wrong on the money part but I still maintain it's harder to become a barrister and in a sense they're higher (perceived anyway). I'm okay with that though. I wouldn't want to be a barrister, I think it would be too much stress.

[roh]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
No, not at all. I just provided my opinions matter of factually. I was wrong on the money part but I still maintain it's harder to become a barrister and in a sense they're higher (perceived anyway). I'm okay with that though. I wouldn't want to be a barrister, I think it would be too much stress.

I suspect being a City solicitor is at least as stressful in terms of hours and at the Bar you don't have a partner going ape**** at you at least, though it's true the Bar is tougher to break into these days.

In terms of transferring if you don't like Psychology it would seem the obvious thing to do, no point sticking out 2 more years of a degree you don't like. Whether to law is up to you. You don't need to do law to be a solicitor as everyone always says and it is indeed dull in parts (hello there Land) but if you think it's the degree you'd enjoy most then go for it.

Whether you'd get an internal transfer or not and into which year is something you'd have to find out as each uni will handle it differently. My mate recently applied for LLM after doing another first degree and found email was a distinctly slow way to communicate with them. Instead he just walked into the Law school and asked a reception, it was the LLM guy's office hours and he went up there and had an interview on the spot, so take advantage of being on site yourself and just go to the school and see what the deal is.

[Zedd]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
I've not been enjoying Psychology very much because there's too much theory involved for my liking.

I suspect that you will not enjoy Jurisprudence

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by roh)
I suspect being a City solicitor is at least as stressful in terms of hours and at the Bar you don't have a partner going ape**** at you at least, though it's true the Bar is tougher to break into these days.

In terms of transferring if you don't like Psychology it would seem the obvious thing to do, no point sticking out 2 more years of a degree you don't like. Whether to law is up to you. You don't need to do law to be a solicitor as everyone always says and it is indeed dull in parts (hello there Land) but if you think it's the degree you'd enjoy most then go for it.

Whether you'd get an internal transfer or not and into which year is something you'd have to find out as each uni will handle it differently. My mate recently applied for LLM after doing another first degree and found email was a distinctly slow way to communicate with them. Instead he just walked into the Law school and asked a reception, it was the LLM guy's office hours and he went up there and had an interview on the spot, so take advantage of being on site yourself and just go to the school and see what the deal is.

Thanks that for very helpful. I know Solicitors also work long, unsociable hours and their job is also very stressful at times. But in view of what I find stressful a barrister is definitely is not the right job for me.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by Zedd)
I suspect that you will not enjoy Jurisprudence

Oh dear what's that about? I don't mind a little theory but a course based on mostly theory isn't my thing.

[roh]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Oh dear what's that about? I don't mind a little theory but a course based on mostly theory isn't my thing.

It's philosophy of law. So 'why does law exist?' that sort of stuff. You won't have to do it in England but for Zedd it's obligatory. I never thought I'd write this but it seems the Scots are a philosophical nation.

And there is still a lot of theory in law, but you at least get to apply it to a real life situation should you choose as there are 2 types of question: Problem Questions which are fake real life eg. 'If Barry makes a contract with Sandeep to do X, but the letter which Sandeep send in reply is late...' they go on for a while and Essays which are something like 'Does a Law of Privacy exist in the England and Wales?'

[TimmonaPortella]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Oh dear what's that about? I don't mind a little theory but a course based on mostly theory isn't my thing.

You'll find a lot of theory all the way through a law course. At least on my course constitutional law is predominantly abstract, and criminal law is about half theory.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
You'll find a lot of theory all the way through a law course. At least on my course constitutional law is predominantly abstract, and criminal law is about half theory.

When you mean theory what kind? Can you give me an example?

[TimmonaPortella]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
When you mean theory what kind? Can you give me an example?

Such as, what should be understood by "intention"? Evaluate whether there is a coherent rationale for x area of law. To what extent is liability for y (e.g. omissions, crimes of strict liability, murder where there was a joint enterprise merely to burgle but where murder on the part of another participant was merely foreseen) justified? You'll need to read journal articles on lots of questions like this, and they often get very abstract. As I say, constitutional is primarily abstract -- how coherent is x theory of parliamentary sovereignty/ the rule of law etc. Some areas of law, though, are wholly or almost wholly black letter, for example tort. I only just finished first year, so I can't really give an overview of a whole course. I suspect that you'll get little or no theory in things like land law or commercial law. I just wanted to point out that you'll meet some abstract concepts in modules that aren't explicitly theory based, like jurisprudence.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Such as, what should be understood by "intention"? Evaluate whether there is a coherent rationale for x area of law. To what extent is liability for y (e.g. omissions, crimes of strict liability, murder where there was a joint enterprise merely to burgle but where murder on the part of another participant was merely foreseen) justified? You'll need to read journal articles on lots of questions like this, and they often get very abstract. As I say, constitutional is primarily abstract -- how coherent is x theory of parliamentary sovereignty/ the rule of law etc. Some areas of law, though, are wholly or almost wholly black letter, for example tort. I only just finished first year, so I can't really give an overview of a whole course. I suspect that you'll get little or no theory in things like land law or commercial law. I just wanted to point out that you'll meet some abstract concepts in modules that aren't explicitly theory based, like jurisprudence.

Thanks that was helpful. Perhaps going back to theory would be quite fresh after modules such as land law haha. Understanding intention seems to brink upon psychology. Are there any books I can read to see if a law degree is right for me?

[roh]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Thanks that was helpful. Perhaps going back to theory would be quite fresh after modules such as land law haha. Understanding intention seems to brink upon psychology. Are there any books I can read to see if a law degree is right for me?

'Letters to a Law Student.'

'What about Law?'

Helena Kennedy's 'Eve was Framed' and another one I've forgotten the title of.

Decent list at the bottom of here: http://www.magd.cam.ac.uk/admissions...jects/law.html

[jacob7191]

The vast majority if not arguably all the Law degree is theory that is one of the reasons why you need to do the LPC or BPTC combined with TC or Pupillage to be qualified to practice law. Also you said you are worried about swapping to a Law degree because you have heard that it is dull. Well you need to do all 7 core modules to be able to qualify, therefore if you really want to be a solicitor you are going to have to endure the dullness regardless of whether you choose to complete your Psychology degree or transfer over to a Law degree. Also you need to recognise that you will have to justify your decision not to complete the Psychology degree in favour of the Law degree to future employers....they may see it as a character trait of yours not to complete tasks that you are not entirely happy about doing.

[TimmonaPortella]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Thanks that was helpful. Perhaps going back to theory would be quite fresh after modules such as land law haha. Understanding intention seems to brink upon psychology. Are there any books I can read to see if a law degree is right for me?

No worries

Imho letters to a law student is useless. I've not read any of the other generic intro books, but I can't see any of them really showing you how you'd spend your time and how you'd like it.

I'd say the only way to find out if it's for you is to read some actual law. Have a look at Tomkins, Public Law (2003) for constitutional -- it's a bit old and a little bit heavy on political accountability, which wasn't a major feature in my course, but it's quite a good overview on a lot of main issues.

I can't think of any introductory texts for other areas that would give you a decent idea of what you'd be doing. It depends how much time you want to invest into this, but I'd say it might be worth getting hold of a copy of Ashworth's Principles of Criminal Law, which is one of the briefer substantive textbooks, and quite good on theory since Ashworth is quite a prominent theorist. I'd expect you wouldn't need to pay too much, particularly since you won't really need a fully up-to-date copy. Read through a few sections and have a look at the sort of thing you'll be looking at. Of course, if you were doing the actual reading during the course you'd need to read cases and articles as well, but I'd say that still reading through bits of a text like that would be very useful. If you have access to a library have a look through a chapter of a case book for tort -- they have brief(ish) extracts from cases and a commentary on those extracts, which is probably the best way to get a grip of what you'd be doing there.

[roh]

(Original post by jacob7191)
The vast majority if not arguably all the Law degree is theory that is one of the reasons why you need to do the LPC or BPTC combined with TC or Pupillage to be qualified to practice law. Also you said you are worried about swapping to a Law degree because you have heard that it is dull. Well you need to do all 7 core modules to be able to qualify, therefore if you really want to be a solicitor you are going to have to endure the dullness regardless of whether you choose to complete your Psychology degree or transfer over to a Law degree. Also you need to recognise that you will have to justify your decision not to complete the Psychology degree in favour of the Law degree to future employers....they may see it as a character trait of yours not to complete tasks that you are not entirely happy about doing.

To be fair there's a big difference between being paid 20-40k a year to be bored senseless and paying 3k for the privilege. I'll happily complete a boring task if I know I'm being paid for it but the theory is you're meant to enjoy your degree.

[Norton1]

(Original post by roh)
It's philosophy of law. So 'why does law exist?' that sort of stuff. You won't have to do it in England but for Zedd it's obligatory. I never thought I'd write this but it seems the Scots are a philosophical nation.

A plague upon your house!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment

[roh]

(Original post by Norton1)
A plague upon your house!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment

Haha I retract my earlier statement in that case!

To be fair I wouldn't really think of the English as any more philosophical. Having lived in France with their 'Ahhhh it may work in practice Monsieur, but does it work in theory?' attitude us Anglo Saxons in general seem very to the point!

[flying plum]

(Original post by roh)
It's philosophy of law. So 'why does law exist?' that sort of stuff. You won't have to do it in England but for Zedd it's obligatory. I never thought I'd write this but it seems the Scots are a philosophical nation.
'

This does depend in where you study. Mdnt know about soton, but was compulsory at kcl when I was an undergrad. School, not law society, policy.

(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Some areas of law, though, are wholly or almost wholly black letter, for example tort.

I think this depends a lot on the style of teaching the school engages in. I was taught tort in quite a moralistic, theoretical way.

But yes, law can be very theory driven, but there is also quite a lot of dull memory work.