[Mito]

Right, a little backstory:

I'm 19 and have a unconditional offer to study History at Chester University. I started a degree in History last year at Bangor but dropped out for various reasons and applied to Chester as I wanted to study in my local area. I've been having doubts though, mainly because I don't really have any passion for History (I tell people I do because I try and justify taking it) and only study it because I'm quite good at it.

However, my real passion lies in computers but I was never able to study computing since my school didn't offer it (ICT was there but that's not the same). The issue is that I don't have A level maths since I always but my science and maths capabilities down when I was younger as I never achieved amazing results (C in GCSE maths, BB in GCSE sciences). I don't want to study an Arts degree though, I have no passion for it and really do not want to waste the tuition fee (again) on it.

The University of Chester doesn't mention maths in the entry requirements, just 240-280 UCAS points (I have 280). I've looked at various similar questions but none seem to give me any clues as to what the maths content is like and if I could cope by putting in extra work etc. Other than this the only thing I could do is spend a year studying a BTEC Extended Diploma (just to get an idea) in Software development at my local college. I'm not sure of the maths content they teach there though.

Uni of Chester's CompSci page

Sorry for the wall'o text

[roblee]

That doesn't look like a very maths-heavy course (it's hard to say categorically when there aren't any module breakdowns, but web development is certainly not going to require calculus for example).

You can probably get by with this and this and this and this. I'd suggest trying some of it out by programming (Octave is a good mathematical programming language) as otherwise this can get very dry very quickly.

[lex25288]

It's not really about the math in the course, but mostly about the math in Computer Science in general and what your plans are for the future.... Do you want to be a software engineer/developer/programmer and what field in IT would you like to work in? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.
Good news for you about Computer Science, it's mostly logic.
Try messing a bit with java or c/c++, before actually committing to a new BSc, this would be my advice.

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[Mito]

Thanks guys. So I'm guessing that CompSci courses can get much more maths intensive at other unis? I'm not afraid of learning some new maths theories and concepts, in fact I'd quite enjoy it if it was all relevant to what I was doing with the computer.
I've tried some Java recently, but of course without some tuition it's hard to see where you are (looked at some tutorials, made some basic text programs etc.).

Time is of the essence here, the longer I leave it the less likely it'll be for me to swap my course September. From all the advice I've had I'm definitely thinking I'll take CompSci though.

(Original post by lex25288)
Do you want to be a software engineer/developer/programmer and what field in IT would you like to work in? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

Lex: As I'm new to the field I'm unsure as to what I'd like to do, but programming sounds very interesting to me (of course though, plans change over time).

[lex25288]

I took a look at the modules on the link you provided and it doesn't seem to have too much math... It's a single honours one, without any electronics or physics in there (I did a BSc in Computer Engineering which is sort of a joint honours between Electronic Engineering and Computer Science) so the one you want to do should be relatively less difficult even if you don't have the "required" A levels :-)
At the end of the day, you gotta follow your heart! There is no point in doing something you don't wanna do, so my take on it is go for it!


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[TheHoodatron]

I'd recommend learning Visual Basic first since it resembles natural language more, which is especially useful when understanding concepts like conditional statements, iteration, recursion, etc.

VB was pretty much the only language I used in A-level Computing. I developed everything in Visual Studio 2010, which is free (Express version). Plus there are plenty of tutorials to help you.

[Mito]

I've been getting the vibe off most programmers and developers on the web that VB is easier to learn but can often give you bad habits when you start coding in Java and maybe C++. If I can actually swap my course (I need to phone the admissions at uni first) then I'll look into doing some basic programming and sharpening my (dormant) maths skills up.

[Lunch_Box]

Visual Basic -> HTML -> JavaScript -> Advanced languages

^ the route I suggest.

[xiyangliu]

C ++ > VB


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[bordercollies10]

I'd say that you probably could get by with trying your hand at a BTEC/foundation year in something like games or software development. Typically, they should teach you a little about:
>software development models
>professional issues
>structured programming (have you came across programming terms such as DO, LOOP UNTIL, etc..?)
>data structures
>algorithms/discrete mathematics (i.e. if I was programming a video game, which would be the best algorithm -given the time and memory constraints - for alphanumerically sorting the integers - numbers without a decimal point - within the high-score table, which will presumably be encapsulated within a data structure?)
>computer architecture (that's learning about processors, memory, operating systems, compilers, logic gates, base two/binary etc...)
>perhaps some calculus and matrices
>and possibly some artificial intelligence!!

I cope to an extent with the work and I wasn't brilliant at maths when I was at school - but I would recommend that you read up on finite state automation first of all as that should give you a taste of what proper computer science is all about!!

I feel as if I've been forced into the field of computing due to my prowess in programming, but my real passion lies in theology and philosophy (I love reading about St Aquinas, Kant, Descartes and Clavin!!!) and if I could, I would probably make the switch pretty soon!

Anyway, I highly recommend giving this video a watch, Dr. Buckland is an amazing lecturer in my opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE7l6Adoiiw
Professor Shewchuck is also very decent (I think he speaks of object orientated programming in this video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VxtWFc0P6U

As for the maths, I'm assuming that you would cope (I'm not advocating that it is easy) given your level of enthusiasm for the subject!

Good luck

[Mito]

Thank you.

A little update for those interested (OP has delivered). I rang up Chester Admissions, explained who I was etc. and what I wanted to do, basically they need to wait for the line manager to come back off holiday next week before they can authorise the swap and they'll contact me with a definite decision then.

Just have to take the risk I guess, nothing ventured nothing gained eh? If all things go to plan I know I'm going to be busting my ass off for this course, but I'm pleased with that. No one got a career without working, did they?

[Mito]

Also, an email I just received from the Senior Lecturer:

I am the programme leader for the Computer Science degree and also the Module Leader for the Data Analysis course.

Many of our students do not have A level maths, and most students passed this module this year.



Mathematical skills are less important for computer scientists than skills in logical thinking, i.e. problem solving – which is what is needed for programming. You have to be able to look at a problem, and work out how to solve it, step by step, before starting to write program code.



In the data analysis module we do:

(i) a lot of spreadsheet work – where I suppose it is arithmetic that is important (such as percentages), and being able to read graphs.

(ii) Some stats – again lots of students have not come across the sort of stats we are doing, so you would not be alone. I tend to teach all students as though they know nothing about the statistical tests that are done. I am not saying that the stats is easy, but if you do the work that is set, there will be no nasty surprises in the assessment (which are assignments and not exams).



I hope this answers your questions – please do not hesitate to contact me again if you need more information.



Best wishes

[lex25288]

Sounds terrific!
About getting started on programming, I'd suggest you do a bit of reading on java, try getting a hold of this:

Charatan, Quentin and Kans, Aaron (2009) Java in Two Semesters (3rd edition) McGraw-Hill


I wouldn't really waste too much time on visual basic, though it may be a really great way to start, lecturers don't really bother too much with it, so why should you?

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[Mito]

Thanks, I'll look into getting that book once I know for sure I'll be studying CompSci this year. I've already being typing up some basic Java in Eclipse for the past few days, but I obviously need some guidance first.

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[TLHroolz]

Try Codacademy...its great for learning java. You mentioned Computing...from what I've heard, unis aren't fussed about it as may produce nasty programming habits...

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[Skeppy]

Lol history

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[Fallen]

(Original post by Lunch_Box)
Visual Basic -> HTML -> JavaScript -> Advanced languages

^ the route I suggest.

What is less advanced about VB than an "advanced language"?

[Lunch_Box]

(Original post by Fallen)
What is less advanced about VB than an "advanced language"?

VB is as the name suggests - basic. It encourages bad programming habits against the likes of C++. You do not actually need to know that much in-depth knowledge of the programming language to be able to construct working code.

[davros]

(Original post by Lunch_Box)
VB is as the name suggests - basic. It encourages bad programming habits against the likes of C++. You do not actually need to know that much in-depth knowledge of the programming language to be able to construct working code.

Absolute rubbish!

VB = Visual Basic, originates from the programming language BASIC, which stood for Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.

In its original format (which I learnt over 20 years ago) it was a hideous language with about 10 instructions (max), line numbers, minimal flow control apart from the dreaded GOTO statement, and no requirement to declare variables. At that stage of its evolution it was indeed a poorly-structured language, used by beginners the world over to gain some sort of programming ability without having to type out endless sequences of hexadecimal digits.

It is now a fully-fledged programming language; there is no sense in which it "encourages bad programming habits"; and you shouldn't NEED an in-depth knowledge of a programming language to construct working code - otherwise we'd all be working in machine code or assembler language.

I could construct a perfectly working but poorly-structured program in C++ if I wanted to - there is nothing in the language that would prevent me from doing that!

The simple rule is: if you want to learn VB, learn VB; if you want to learn C++ (or Java) (perhaps to get a head start), learn C++ (or Java). Your only trade-off is: do you want to start learning something that will be covered by your course, or would you rather pick up something that will complement what you are going to be taught formally?

[Vince xD]

(Original post by davros)
VB = Visual Basic, originates from the programming language BASIC, which stood for Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.

i think u just contradicted yourself there mate.

if it is not a basic language, then why does it state it is for BEGINNERS in the title of the language?

lmao

p.s. C++ is more efficient. everything vb can do, C++ can do more. dont even defend vb