[Hopple]

Forgive the paint drawings, I couldn't find a better green.

Often in football matches, you'll see a forward coming back from an offside position to win or compete for the ball, only for the game to be stopped for a free kick. i.e. when the ball is played forwards, we have this:

But the play then develops to this:

Why is this offside? If anything, the offside player has a disadvantage by having to run further. Note, I keep the yellow offside line the same (when the ball is played forward) so that the defence aren't penalised for running back to defend. To clarify, the player who was offside has run back onside to compete for/collect the ball.

And taking things a step further, what about this?

Now the forward has to run and change direction, and the defence again still have the advantage because the yellow line stays where it was when the ball was played forwards.

It happens too often, I think, and needlessly interrupts the flow of the game.

Edit: to summarise, I don't think the attacker should be penalised provided he returns to an onside position (the line taken when the ball is played forward) at some point between the ball being played forward and him touching or competing for the ball.

[Joburger]

[Beatlemania]

Those paintings are confuzing slightly. Do you mean when a player is coming back from an offside position to try and win the ball?

[Hopple]

(Original post by Joburger)
OMG WHO THE HELL CARES!

The less interrupted by needless free kicks football is, the better.

(Original post by Beatlemania)
Those paintings are confuzing slightly. Do you mean when a player is coming back from an offside position to try and win the ball?

Yup. The attacker actually has to run further to get the ball than if he were onside, so is actually hurting himself by being offside.

[Beatlemania]

I watch a lot of football, I've got a season ticket. The game is often stop-start, and would be even more so with technology, which is why I'm against it.

Image two, the blue player can't recieve the ball straight away because he is coming back from an offside position. Image three never happens, although the better players can bend their runs.

[Hopple]

(Original post by Beatlemania)
I watch a lot of football, I've got a season ticket. The game is often stop-start, and would be even more so with technology, which is why I'm against it.

Image two, the blue player can't recieve the ball straight away because he is coming back from an offside position. Image three never happens, although the better players can bend their runs.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not advocating any new technology, I'm questioning why these instances are offside when really, the attacker isn't gaining anything. The linesmen can just judge whether the player collected the ball in front or behind where the defensive line was (image 2) or nipped back onside before running off to get the ball (image 3).

[Jim-Jam]

(Original post by Beatlemania)
Those paintings are confuzing slightly. Do you mean when a player is coming back from an offside position to try and win the ball?

Think he means if a player puts it straight back to a deeper player and returns to an onside position.

I agree with that.

[Hopple]

(Original post by Jim-Jam)
Think he means if a player puts it straight back to a deeper player and returns to an onside position.

I agree with that.

I don't mean that actually, but that's another good point I'll edit into the OP, but what I'm saying is a player who is offside when the ball is played should not be penalised if they return to an onside position before doing anything with the ball. I've shaded the blue guy in the second picture to show his previous (when the ball is played forwards) and final positions (and then forgotten to do the same for the 3rd picture XD).

[MissLightyear]

I've always thought that if a player is in an offside position as the ball is passed, but then runs back to an onside position before turning and competing for the ball (I think this is what your third image is trying to show) then it shouldnt be classed as offside. The player has no disadvantage as they have to get onside before they can compete for the ball so its just the same as being onside in the first place.

I'm not sure if it works out that clearly in practice, but in theory it would reduce the stop-start nature of some games.

[Panthalic]

From a sporting point of view, the player is gaining an advantage by being in that position as he is operating behind the defensive line where they can't see him, it would make the defender's job so much more difficult to have to deal with people coming from behind as it were.

From a practical view, it would be a nightmare to officiate. The linesman currently has to know where the defensive line is, where the attackers are and watch the ball for when it's played, all of which are constantly changing and with no warning of when he'll need to make the call. That's hard enough without having to now watch all that in additional to a now no-longer marked line where one particular currently offside attacker needs to return to and then he is no longer offside. The amount of mistakes would be horrific, it's just not possible for one person to do all that properly.

[MissLightyear]

(Original post by Panthalic)
From a sporting point of view, the player is gaining an advantage by being in that position as he is operating behind the defensive line where they can't see him, it would make the defender's job so much more difficult to have to deal with people coming from behind as it were.

From a practical view, it would be a nightmare to officiate. The linesman currently has to know where the defensive line is, where the attackers are and watch the ball for when it's played, all of which are constantly changing and with no warning of when he'll need to make the call. That's hard enough without having to now watch all that in additional to a now no-longer marked line where one particular currently offside attacker needs to return to and then he is no longer offside. The amount of mistakes would be horrific, it's just not possible for one person to do all that properly.

Thats a very good point actually, I've changed my mind! It would just lead to more abuse of the officials too for making mistakes and theres already too muc of that.

[nosaer]

If I've understood you right, this is the problem with what you're suggesting. If you decided the offside rule to be implemented from the position when the attacker picks the balls up as opposed to when the ball is released, you would have defenders running in the opposite direction to that which the ball is being played in, meaning long through balls and dinks over the tops would be ruled offside (e.g. imagine Everton's defenders running away from their goal the moment Song dinks the ball over to RVP to catch him in an offside position when he takes the ball down or shoots). Pretty sure it would suck this way, for attackers at least. At its worst, you would get situations where both offenders and attackers are sprinting away from the same goal to try and either reach the ball first if it were the attacker, or try to catch the opposition offside if it were the defenders.

Edit: In fact, all through balls would be ruled offside surely? Imagine Henry's goal vs Leeds. He'd be offside by the time he picks up Song's through-ball.

[Hopple]

(Original post by MissLightyear)
I've always thought that if a player is in an offside position as the ball is passed, but then runs back to an onside position before turning and competing for the ball (I think this is what your third image is trying to show) then it shouldnt be classed as offside. The player has no disadvantage as they have to get onside before they can compete for the ball so its just the same as being onside in the first place.

I'm not sure if it works out that clearly in practice, but in theory it would reduce the stop-start nature of some games.

Indeed, they actually put themselves at a disadvantage by being offside since they have to run back onside.

(Original post by Panthalic)
From a sporting point of view, the player is gaining an advantage by being in that position as he is operating behind the defensive line where they can't see him, it would make the defender's job so much more difficult to have to deal with people coming from behind as it were.

It's hardly an advantage. He's got to run back onside, and any defensive line catching him offside is going to know where he is anyway.

From a practical view, it would be a nightmare to officiate. The linesman currently has to know where the defensive line is, where the attackers are and watch the ball for when it's played, all of which are constantly changing and with no warning of when he'll need to make the call. That's hard enough without having to now watch all that in additional to a now no-longer marked line where one particular currently offside attacker needs to return to and then he is no longer offside. The amount of mistakes would be horrific, it's just not possible for one person to do all that properly.

He just needs to know where the line was, which is probably where he is standing if he's doing his job right.

(Original post by nosaer)
If I've understood you right, this is the problem with what you're suggesting. If you decided the offside rule to be implemented from the position when the attacker picks the balls up as opposed to when the ball is released, you would have defenders running in the opposite direction to that which the ball is being played in, meaning long through balls and dinks over the tops would be ruled offside (e.g. imagine Everton's defenders running away from their goal the moment Song dinks the ball over to RVP to catch him in an offside position when he takes the ball down or shoots). Pretty sure it would suck this way, for attackers at least. At its worst, you would get situations where both offenders and attackers are sprinting away from the same goal to try and either reach the ball first if it were the attacker, or try to catch the opposition offside if it were the defenders.

Edit: In fact, all through balls would be ruled offside surely? Imagine Henry's goal vs Leeds. He'd be offside by the time he picks up Song's through-ball.

No, you're okay if you start from an onside position. As long as you're onside some time between the ball being played forward and you getting to it then that should be fine.

[tc92]

Just a point of info, the offside line is where the last defender is, not the attacker. The linesman should be in line with the last defender.

Yes it results in more running; but, as pointed out, you gain an advantage in the defender not knowing where you are.

Also, having to run a bit wouldn't count as negating an advantage. It's sport, you're meant to run!

[Hopple]

(Original post by tc92)
Just a point of info, the offside line is where the last defender is, not the attacker. The linesman should be in line with the last defender.

Yes it results in more running; but, as pointed out, you gain an advantage in the defender not knowing where you are.

Also, having to run a bit wouldn't count as negating an advantage. It's sport, you're meant to run!

The red team is defending, the blue team is attacking.

The defender should know where you are anyway if they've got any notion of what the offside rule is.

[noisy06]

The attacker must be onside when the ball is played. The key here is when the ball is played. That's assuming the attacker is interfering with play in the first place (which is what you're assuming I think)

[Hopple]

(Original post by noisy06)
The attacker must be onside when the ball is played. The key here is when the ball is played. That's assuming the attacker is interfering with play in the first place (which is what you're assuming I think)

I know what the rules are, I'm suggesting that this would be better.

[noisy06]

(Original post by Hopple)
I know what the rules are, I'm suggesting that this would be better.

Your rule doesn't make sense at all though, I read you summary part and it doesn't make sense at all. You are essentially saying that it should not be offside if the attacker returns to an onside position between when the ball is played and him touching the ball. That's not possible though, otherwise he would be onside! Think about it.

[Ice Constricter]

(Original post by Panthalic)
From a sporting point of view, the player is gaining an advantage by being in that position as he is operating behind the defensive line where they can't see him, it would make the defender's job so much more difficult to have to deal with people coming from behind as it were.

From a practical view, it would be a nightmare to officiate. The linesman currently has to know where the defensive line is, where the attackers are and watch the ball for when it's played, all of which are constantly changing and with no warning of when he'll need to make the call. That's hard enough without having to now watch all that in additional to a now no-longer marked line where one particular currently offside attacker needs to return to and then he is no longer offside. The amount of mistakes would be horrific, it's just not possible for one person to do all that properly.

This.

You're just trying to complicate the beautiful game OP, offside means offside. Not offside unless X player does X thing.

[Hopple]

(Original post by noisy06)
Your rule doesn't make sense at all though, I read you summary part and it doesn't make sense at all. You are essentially saying that it should not be offside if the attacker returns to an onside position between when the ball is played and him touching the ball. That's not possible though, otherwise he would be onside! Think about it.

Replace onside with yellow line between attacker and goal, and offside with on same side of yellow line as goal. I think you know what I'm getting at though.

(Original post by Ice Constricter)
This.

You're just trying to complicate the beautiful game OP, offside means offside. Not offside unless X player does X thing.

I'm trying to make the beautiful game flow better. Having play stop because an attacker is being penalised for running further makes no sense.