[imconfused]

currently doin my as levels... i may pick art next year dont know???

i WANNa do civil engineering OR architecture...
Basically the question is which one can you make the most money?
How hard is it to find a job, e.g in london??? (these questions apply for the NEXT 10-30 YEARS... I MEAN IN FUTURE.....)
Which one takes the shortest time to make more money?
I dont know how to phrase this question... i guess which one is more enjoyaBLE???? (I MEAN im going to be doing it for the rest of my life... I wanna do my job with passion and enthusiasm, not like school...)
I know with architecture i could open my own office... can i do the same with civil engineering?
Plus does civil engineering require creaativity and designs like architecture?


Thhanks for reading... if u can reply i will be very grateful...

[thefish_uk]

Neither is a "get-rich-quick" profession. The main motivation behind people in either is enjoyment of the job, not money. No matter how many ingenious ideas they come up with what architecture and civil engineering firms fundamentally get paid to do is get drawings out the door showing things which can be built and which, when built, will do what the new building owner wants. And ideally won't cost too much to build. So behind all the glamour there are many people working their socks off for many hours on the little details, getting paid enough to get by but not extortionate amounts. You will be one of these people for several years. It's very rare that anybody in either profession can honestly claim to be responsible for something all by themselves.

If you reach the top you can indeed eventually earn quite a bit in either. Probably more as an architect - everyone has heard of Norman Foster, nobody has heard of... erm... who was the lead engineer on the Gherkin again? (This might say a bit about the personality types actually - architects like basking in the glory, engineers are more modest and admit it was a team effort.)

In either profession you can start your own company. In each case as a minimum you would need to be professionally qualified which takes at least 4-5 years after graduation.

Civil engineers do indeed design things. The things which architects and engineers have to consider are different in each case though. Architects think about what a building looks like, inside and out, and what it's like to be in (though having said that there's a lot of un-glamorous things they have to decide for every building as well). Engineers have the job of using science and maths to make the architect's vision a reality - generally this will involve taking the principles of engineering topics (structures, geotechnics etc) and using those to decide how best to arrange the steelwork which forms the frame of a building, how to ensure the ground around the building doesn't become waterlogged etc. Architects will find that a lot of what informs their decisions is a matter of taste and fashion. Engineers study in detail what makes a building stand up, often involving lots of maths, and develop a "feel" for it which means they can appear to sketch on a notepad a design in much the same way as an architect - even though they're thinking about totally different things!

I'm currently working in a structural engineering practice so if you have any more questions just ask! (But quote me, otherwise I might not spot it.)

[internet tough guy]

In terms of finding a job, I would guess civil engineering is easier because you could go into more areas with that course, like apparently most people who do engineering don't even end up in the field of engineering in their careers.

As for which one is more enjoyable, well that depends what sort of person you are. Are you more of a problem solver than a designer as such?

[c471]

for Civil engineerss, egarding money, you will find it depends how good you are. A desirable candidate could get a starting salary of 30K working for a big firm, IIRC the average salary for chartered civil engineers is about 58K a year. Target jobs had a survery too which suggested something like 8% of all engineers earn over 100K a year.

As a contracting civil engineer (ie working on site) you can expect routine overtime and shift work which means your basic salary will be substantially boosted by overtime pay.

If you are good, you can make your fortune in most industries. If you are mediocre, you wont get rich anywhere in most cases!

[c471]

(Original post by josepoyanuk)
Hi thefish_uk,

Is it correct that the civil and structural engineers have a knowledge of structures so good that they can actually attack problems in other fields like design aircraft structures or use Catia or Solid Works to design ships and cars and work on mechanical problems ? Is it possible for them to do mechanical design without training? Or are they out of doing that becouse they dont know about thermodynamics, advanced mechanics, etc?

Is it true that Civil engineering is less demanding academically than Mechanical Engineering?

thanks

No, typically civil engineers (most engineers in fact), can find quite good jobs in other fields. Investment banking like engineers, as they are good with numbers, good problem solving etc. You could be a physics teacher, many maths or number based jobs will take on engineers. And of course you can apply to any generic grad scheme, and engineering is seen as a 'substantial' degree, so you may have a bit of an edge.
Some technical routes that are quite specialised may recruit from a number of disiplines and train from there to their specific needs.

You wouldnt get an engineering job in an unrelated field without some sort of training first.

Re how hard it is as a degree, it depends on you. Civil is by far and away the most practical degree. Its not just about knowing the subject, its about being able to do it to.
You may not do thermo to the same level as a mech engineer, but you trade off by the fact you have to acquire physical skills. A mech engineer is unlikely to be on the shop floor working in production. A civil engineer on the other hand will be on site, setting out where the building has to be to very small tolerances.

Also, in civil expect a balance of maths and judgement. A lot of what you deal with is real world. A brick wall does not behave like one giant brick, concrete doesnt behave in a common way, people do not move in a uniform specific pattern.

The two disciplines are geared towards different types of people.

[thefish_uk]

(Original post by josepoyanuk)
Hi thefish_uk, Is it correct that the civil and structural engineers have a knowledge of structures so good that they can actually attack problems in other fields like design aircraft structures or use Catia or Solid Works to design ships and cars and work on mechanical problems ? Is it possible for them to do mechanical design without training? Or are they out of doing that becouse they dont know about thermodynamics, advanced mechanics, etc? Is it true that Civil engineering is less demanding academically than Mechanical Engineering? thanks

It depends a lot on the content of the particular degree you do. The one I did (see my sig) would prepare you quite well for a job in certain mechanical areas as it was very theoretical - mechanical and civil engineers (and the other disciplines too) did a common first two years, and even in the third and fourth years the mechanical and civil students shared a lot of modules, but when the civil students were learning about soil and water the mechanical students were learning about designing machines. There was very much an attitude that university was about taking your analysis skills to the highest possible level and that learning about codes, construction techniques etc was best done on the job*. At a university with a less academic course, however, there might be more civil-specific content (on construction materials, designing to code etc) which would mean you have less in common with mechanical folk by the end of it, so it would be a bigger jump across to a job aimed mainly at mechanical types.

If you think engineers spend a lot of time in CAD, by the way, you're a bit mistaken (in civil/structural at least - I can't speak for mechanical but I suspect it's likely to be the same). We have CAD technicians who deal with producing the various 3D models and getting drawings out - in the process they have to sort out a lot of the niggly details to do with how things are actually put together. Engineers spend much more time doing analysis in order to make design decisions which they then communicate to the CAD technicians who create the actual models / drawings. The "analysis" might be anything from a quick calc on the back of an envelope to a non-linear time history finite element analysis which needs to be left over an entire weekend to run.

* I should mention that no matter how applied your uni course is, there will be a lot of learning on the job to be done.

[josepoyanuk]

Thanks a lot for the advice. It is really usefull. Thanks