The Student Room Group

Iran sentence alcohol drinkers to death.

Mod Edit: Despite gentle reminders, this thread has gone very off topic and is now closed.

http://www.rferl.org/content/iran-alcohol-death-penalty/24625625.html

On other rediculous crimes, two people (seperate events) beheaded for "sorcery" in saudi arabia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/8952641/Saudi-Arabia-execution-of-sorcery-woman-condemned.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550

Its happening here as well, multiculturalism eh?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-specialist-training-to-help-child-victims-of-witchcraft-beliefs-7682466.html

4000-6000 LGBT people have been killed in Iran, various stonings of gay people or people dressed like westeners in Iraq, there are literally hundreds of cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran

How can these cultures still believe in things like "sorcery" when we abandoned that BS half a millenium ago?
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Reply 1
Inb4 neg and ru..... ahhhh you did it alraedy..
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Reply 2
I really hate humanity sometimes.
Reply 3
Original post by prog2djent

How can these cultures still believe in things like "sorcery" when we abandoned that BS half a millenium ago?


I can't comment on the Arab issue, but as for the treatment of LGBTs in Iran, that's not a "cultural" thing. It's a fascism thing. Life in Iran is miserable for gay people, straight people, the young, the old, women, drinkers, teetotallers, men, children and pretty much anyone who hates theocratic rule according to a 1400 year old book and desires 21st century freedom.

Here are the immortal words of the Iranian poet, mathematician and sage Omar Khayyam on alcohol (from nearly 1000 years ago):

Drunkards are doomed to hell, so men declare,
Believe it not, 'tis but a foolish scare;
Heaven will be empty as this hand of mine,
If none who love good drink find entrance there
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Reply 4
Original post by Democracy
I can't comment on the Arab issue, but as for the treatment of LGBTs in Iran, that's not a "cultural" thing. It's a fascism thing. Life in Iran is miserable for gay people, straight people, the young, the old, women, drinkers, teetotallers, men, children and pretty mcuh anyone who desires to hates theocratic rule according to a 1400 year old book and desires 21st century freedom.


I thought theocracy was rule by people of a religious hierarchy who have some sort of divine connection to God?

Surely rule by the book would be government under Shariah, like North Somalia or 95-01 Afghanistan?
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Reply 5
Original post by prog2djent
I thought theocracy was rule by people of a religious hierarchy who have some sort of divine connection to God?


Er yeah, who exactly do you think the Mullahs are, if not a religious hierarchy?
Reply 6
Original post by Aj12
I really hate humanity sometimes.


Oh, me too. Especially when Liberals call for military intervention.
Reply 7
Original post by ak137
Oh, me too. Especially when Liberals call for military intervention.


Those liberals are actually european neo-conservatives and the "radical centre".

Liberal either means progressive or classical liberal, both are vehemently opposed to intervention. Someone like Galloway representing the former and libertarians the latter.
I'd love to hear a nice story coming out of the middle east for once. I can't remember ever hearing about anything good coming out of that sandy backwards ****hole.
Reply 9
Original post by Democracy
Er yeah, who exactly do you think the Mullahs are, if not a religious hierarchy?


"that's not a "cultural" thing."
"rule according to a 1400 year old book and desires 21st century freedom."

I forget to mention culture in my first responce :tongue:. Its encouraging you distinguish culture and Islamo-fascism (am I allowed to use that word?) because most apologists and appeasers on this forum get all flustered when something bad happens in any Islamic nation which is clearly the result of scripture interpretation, not "culture", adding more words and lables as a diluting tool is favourite of people like Mehdi Hassan and NS columnists in general.

You mentioned that these sorts of attitudes and occurances happen beacuse of religious books, but Iran isn't a Shariah Caliph is it? Which would be the closest to representing Islamic law or the whole Idea of "dheen/Dīn" of the people.

Surely Iran, as a theocracy, aren't carrying out what is written in books, as they do not directly influence action, and instead, Mullah's are representative of God's word?
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Reply 10
Original post by prog2djent
I thought theocracy was rule by people of a religious hierarchy who have some sort of divine connection to God?

Surely rule by the book would be government under Shariah, like North Somalia or 95-01 Afghanistan?


South Somalia actually, and it was 2006.
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Reply 11
Original post by abdiz12
South Somalia actually, and it was 2006.


Thanks.

I find it odd that the south fell to mujahid fighters and sharia, given that other African countries (aside from the Coastal Northern states) where Islam and chrisitianity are roughly 50:50 .... have Islam dominant in the North, Like Sudan, Mali, Nigeria etc
Reply 12
Original post by prog2djent
Thanks.

I find it odd that the south fell to mujahid fighters and sharia, given that other African countries (aside from the Coastal Northern states) where Islam and chrisitianity are roughly 50:50 .... have Islam dominant in the North, Like Sudan, Mali, Nigeria etc


Well Muslims make up 100% in Somalia, and 90% in Mali but South Somalia and North Mali have increasing Salafism. So hardship + suffering + corrupt governments = Salafism. But everybody got a right to defend themselves, and to rule themselves, I say let them be.
Original post by prog2djent
"that's not a "cultural" thing."
"rule according to a 1400 year old book and desires 21st century freedom."

I forget to mention culture in my first responce :tongue:. Its encouraging you distinguish culture and Islamo-fascism (am I allowed to use that word?) because most apologists and appeasers on this forum get all flustered when something bad happens in any Islamic nation which is clearly the result of scripture interpretation, not "culture", adding more words and lables as a diluting tool is favourite of people like Mehdi Hassan and NS columnists in general.


Of course you're allowed to use that word. I'm also slightly perplexed as to why you're "encouraged" by my post...then go on to tell me what most "apologists and appeasers" on this forum do and do not do...as if anyone on here could mistake me for an apologist for religious tyranny (seen my sig?).

Ultra-conservative Islam may or may not be a part of Saudi Arabian culture, in all honesty it probably is tbh, but I don't really know and it's not my concern here since I'm not an Arab. On the other hand, I do know about Iranian culture, so I can definitely say that the ultra-conservative Islam propagated by the Mullahs is actively hated by the majority of Iranians and is not a part of the culture at all.

You mentioned that these sorts of attitudes and occurances happen beacuse of religious books, but Iran isn't a Shariah Caliph is it? Which would be the closest to representing Islamic law or the whole Idea of "dheen/Dīn" of the people.

Surely Iran, as a theocracy, aren't carrying out what is written in books, as they do not directly influence action, and instead, Mullah's are representative of God's word?


Iran's regime is a theocracy run by an ensemble of mullahs, Ayatollahs and Grand Ayatollahs and backed up various thugs and hired guns. The root of Iran's current (i.e. post-1979) laws and constitution is claimed by the regime to be the Qur'an and Sharia law. HOWEVER, what makes Iran's system more unique is what you've written in your final sentence i.e. the Mullahs also being god's representatives on Earth, a principle known as Velayat-e Faqih.

Whether or not Iran is "correctly" following Sharia, or if it's the Sharia of Mohammad's era, or whatever else, those are debates for Muslims to waste their time on, I for one don't really care for that, I just see that Iran's current system is deontologically tyrannical and consequentially harmful, so I hate it.
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Shia law, the person should instead be whipped tbh. But it also depends on the circumstances too I guess.

Original post by Democracy
I can't comment on the Arab issue, but as for the treatment of LGBTs in Iran, that's not a "cultural" thing. It's a fascism thing. Life in Iran is miserable for gay people, straight people, the young, the old, women, drinkers, teetotallers, men, children and pretty much anyone who hates theocratic rule according to a 1400 year old book and desires 21st century freedom.


Yes because Iranians want to go back to secularism, and have Hijabs banned and be forced to wear suits and ties (hijab banning definitely helped the "revolution"). I take it you're a murtad or something and have some kind of zeal for religion? Because I've noticed a lot of bias from your posts.

I've spoken to many Shia Iranians (you know, the people who form up 90% or so of the population), and I strongly, (and I don't care if you're iranian) doubt that Iranians share your vision of "alcohol and gay people". Religion aside here too, it's not in "Iranian culture either" (well, I can't speak for Jahiliya days).

If I am right and you are an Iranian Murtad, then I wouldn't take anything you say about what "Iranians want" too seriously. There's millions of Iranians, who might not be "as practising" as their neighbours, but they certainly do adhere to their basic religious principles and I can definitely not imagine them endorsing alcohol and homosexuality. It sounds like your fantasy.
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Original post by prog2djent

4000-6000 LGBT people have been killed in Iran, various stonings of gay people or people dressed like westeners in Iraq, there are literally hundreds of cases.


Do you actually have proof for this or are you talking crap again?
Reply 16
It's a bit naive that you think the world will progress at the same time (your time) and that everyone will share the same beliefs.
Original post by Perseveranze

Yes because Iranians want to go back to secularism, and have Hijabs banned and be forced to wear suits and ties. I take it you're a murtad or something and have some kind of zeal for religion? Because I've noticed a lot of bias from your posts.


To be a "mortad" you need to have been a Muslim in the first place.

Also, it's hilarious to hear TSR's answer to Shakeel Ahmad Bhat accusing someone else of bias. Actually hilarious. Roll on :wink:

I've spoken to many Shia Iranians (you know, the people who form up 90% or so of the populations religion), and I strongly, (and I don't care if you're iranian) doubt that Iranians share your vision of "alcohol and gay people". Religion aside here too, it's not in "Iranian culture either" (well, I can't speak for Jahiliya days).


Jahiliya refers to pre-Islamic Arab culture, but Iranians are not Arabs and never have been, so you fail there.

Here's an idea: You comment on your own culture (if you have one, I'm not sure Ummah fanatics believe in culture actually), and leave Iranian matters to me.
Reply 18
Original post by Horatio-
It's a bit naive that you think the world will progress at the same time (your time) and that everyone will share the same beliefs.


The worst of all is the snobbery from those "progressive" parts of the world.
Reply 19
Original post by Perseveranze
Do you actually have proof for this or are you talking crap again?


Your not going to believe any proof unless its from a site you like.