Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.
Discuss issues that have a social and cultural impact, including but not limited to issues such as racism, teenage pregnancies, the social impact of religion, and the state of the education system.
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.Agreed - though it is particularly applicable on this topic of discussion. People seem to really go out of their way to read something different to what has actually been said.(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
That doesn't mean you condone it. Surely it's a statement of fact that some guys find some attractive woman "too much to handle" - that's why sexual harassment happens.
I don't understand why people are incapable of reading on this forum. Your post bears no relation to what the person you quoted actually said. Your comment was basically, "if you agree something happens, you must condone it", which is so moronically stupid that I hope that you're trolling.
e.g someone will always try to turn a statement like "provocatively dressed women are more likely to get sexually harrassed" into a statement is like "it is perfectly acceptable to sexually harrass a woman who is provocatively dressed - in fact they deserve it" or "all men are animalistic creatures who have no self control to stop themselves sexually harrassing women".Last edited by tazarooni89; 30-06-2012 at 02:30. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.Yeah, just shows a lack of intelligence, in my opinion.(Original post by tazarooni89)
Agreed - though it is particularly applicable on this topic of discussion. People seem to really go out of their way to convince themselves that you said something that you didn't actually say. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.This is fairly straightforward. The rapist is 100% responsible for the rape. Clearly, people may take certain precautions that might help keep them safe, but they are still in no way responsible if they fall victim.
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.It will always attract the attention of perverts (and worse), so I do agree with it.
I can however understand that its victim-blaming, which isn't right (most of the time). Blaming a rape victim isn't right, no matter the provokation.Last edited by Alpharius; 30-06-2012 at 11:21. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.You're taking it personally. I am just saying that there are some perverts out there, who are going to harass someone at any given day no matter what.(Original post by OmicronPersei8)
Actually you're statement does condone it because you're making excuses by saying that what a woman is wearing may prove too much for one guy to handle. Seriously? So what if someone hasn't had sex in a while that is no excuse to force yourself onto someone or harass them regardless of what someone is wearing.
But who are they going to target? Sexy women or women with conservative clothing? I think dressing reasonably should inhibit their impulses. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.This is still going on? What's the point of arguing this anymore we're just going round in circles! I can pretty much predict how the next few posts will go:
Someone says that dressing provocatively could lead to increasing your chances of harassment.
Someone else will fail to read this statement correctly and so will either claim that the first poster is sticking up for rapists, or will say the unrealistic statement 'men should learn to stop being rapists then.'
Another poster will then either insult this poster, or will use reason to explain why the second poster is wrong, usually with the exact same reasoning as the first poster.
Cycle repeats.Last edited by justanotherposter; 30-06-2012 at 13:35. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.wow antijoke chicken much? i was being sarcastic(Original post by Muscovite)
surely your post suggests they do do it for the pleasure of men - otherwise why would they do it as it's not comfortable; I'm not saying this is my opinion it just seems you're contradicting yourself -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.Really? .. Never go into comedy(Original post by smd4std)
wow antijoke chicken much? i was being sarcastic -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.This is pointless. We all know that in practice women wearing less do get more bad attention. In an ideal world and in theory women should be able to do what they like, but reality and practice is what is more important. So yes the Chinese are right in this regard. Unless you have a pervert detector?
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.I think a statement like this is entirely outrageous and encourages inequality among the sex's. If women are expected to "cover-up", then men should abide by the same expectations. Men can be equally as provocative in a number of ways.So the Chinese think that that women should "cherish their bodies" and not dress so provocatively as to avoid being sexually harassed.
Females may often dress "provocatively" because maybe they find it looks much better than being covered from head to toe. It is a personal preference, and should not have the term "provocative" assigned to a woman's preference to dress a certain way. Just because a woman decides to wear a dress above knee length doesn't necessarily suggest shes looking for attention, maybe she feels more comfortable dressing that way as opposed to any other way. In addition to that women who dress in a "provocative" manner are by no means showing a disregard for their own safety. A woman in Afghanistan who finds it compulsory to wear the Burka is most probably, in fact, at more risk than the female you'd find going about her business in relatively revealing clothing in other places around the world.What we must make the difference of however, is women who dress lightly (as to avoid overheating) and women who abuse the opportunity to dress provocatively (as to attract the males they want). Ofcourse, women are entitled to dress as they want, but females dressing provocatively shows a disregard for their own safety.
This is often a very prejudged perception of Arab culture.Males will act in their primal nature, we shouldn't forget that, and there are some elements of society where such behavior (sexual harassment) is allowed. There are also some parts of society that are sexually opressed (the Arabian culture is a good example of this, multiple wives leads alot of younger males without any access to female contact ). These males will act on instincts, and if females cover up more that will make them less of a target for such men.
You speak of males acting in their "primal nature", well I put it to you to explore and explain the vast conundrum of the spectrum of sexuality. Males are not just narrowed down to one sexual instinct, or one sexual preference. Homosapiens are exposed to a variety of sexual preferences and activities.
Universal theory in this context would be that women have the right to dress as they wish and they have by no means a responsibility to prevent provocation of another. The other is the one who has the responsibility to control their own actions, as well as the other having the duty to respect an individuals (women in this context) dignity as a human being.It all falls down to the simple question of rights and responsibilities. Women have the right to dress up as they wish, but they also have a responsibility as to not sexually provoke people who are vulnerable to being provoked in such ways. They also have a duty of care to look after themselves and their bodies.Last edited by iamjeeoh; 30-06-2012 at 16:20. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.All points we've all already discussed and won before. Read the thread and you'll find a credible solution in favour of my argument to each of your ranting paragraphs.(Original post by iamjeeoh)
I think a statement like this is entirely outrageous and encourages inequality among the sex's. If women are expected to "cover-up", then men should abide by the same expectations. Men can be equally as provocative in a number of ways.
Females may often dress "provocatively" because maybe they find it looks much better than being covered from head to toe. It is a personal preference, and should not have the term "provocative" assigned to a woman's preference to dress a certain way. Just because a woman decides to wear a dress above knee length doesn't necessarily suggest shes looking for attention, maybe she feels more comfortable dressing that way as opposed to any other way. In addition to that women who dress in a "provocative" manner are by no means showing a disregard for their own safety. A woman in Afghanistan who finds it compulsory to wear the Burka is most probably, in fact, at more risk than the female you'd find going about her business in relatively revealing clothing in other places around the world.
This is often a very prejudged perception of Arab culture.
You speak of males acting in their "primal nature", well I put it to you to explore and explain the vast conundrum of the spectrum of sexuality. Males are not just narrowed down to one sexual instinct, or one sexual preference. Homosapiens are exposed to a variety of sexual preferences and activities.
Universal theory in this context would be that women have the right to dress as they wish and they have by no means a responsibility to prevent provocation of another. The other is the one who has the responsibility to control their own actions, as well as the other having the duty to respect an individuals (women in this context) dignity as a human being. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.Just as a black man walking through Alabama has the responsibility to not provoke any Klansmen, right? I mean, after all, we all have a "primal instinct" to distrust creatures from without our immediate evolutionary society and niche, so anyone "different" has the job of not triggering this unavoidable urges.(Original post by Rennit)
It all falls down to the simple question of rights and responsibilities. Women have the right to dress up as they wish, but they also have a responsibility as to not sexually provoke people who are vulnerable to being provoked in such ways. They also have a duty of care to look after themselves and their bodies.
Piss off. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.ugh. Yet another one. Read the thread, your point has already been made and proved wrong numerous times.(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Just as a black man walking through Alabama has the responsibility to not provoke any Klansmen, right? I mean, after all, we all have a "primal instinct" to distrust creatures from without our immediate evolutionary society and niche, so anyone "different" has the job of not triggering this unavoidable urges.
Piss off.
Seriously, some people don't read the thread properly. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.I made the same point early on in the thread and it went ignored as well. Seriously, tell me, how is my analogy different from what you're saying?(Original post by Rennit)
ugh. Yet another one. Read the thread, your point has already been made and proved wrong numerous times.
Seriously, some people don't read the thread properly. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.I agree, there are perverts out there. But I don't think women should actively change what they wear in order to inhibit these people. Women get raped/sexually assaulted in all types of clothes and not just "sexy" clothes. Its the mentality that I should dress so that men don't rape me that irks me.(Original post by Felchingman)
You're taking it personally. I am just saying that there are some perverts out there, who are going to harass someone at any given day no matter what.
But who are they going to target? Sexy women or women with conservative clothing? I think dressing reasonably should inhibit their impulses.
Apologies if my previous response had a bit too much vitriol
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.It's common sense. People generally try to reduce being victims of crimes. Dressing less provocatively reduces your chances of being sexually harassed/assaulted (not mentioning rape because rape is different and generally clothes don't have a effect on the rapist).(Original post by OmicronPersei8)
I agree, there are perverts out there. But I don't think women should actively change what they wear in order to inhibit these people. Women get raped/sexually assaulted in all types of clothes and not just "sexy" clothes. Its the mentality that I should dress so that men don't rape me that irks me.
Apologies if my previous response had a bit too much vitriol
In an ideal world, I should be able to leave my keys in my car and not have it robbed. But, that isn't going to happen because thieves don't give a **** about what my rights are and are going to take it. I value my car thus I make sure I keep it as safe as possible and reduce chance of it being robbed.
You can take the risks, as a human being you should be entitled to take whatever risks you want with your life. But, at least understand and comprehend that there are risks.Last edited by Annoying-Mouse; 30-06-2012 at 20:19. -
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Re: Girls should dress less provocatively to avoid perverts, say the Chinese.Dressing less provocatively does not necessarily increase your chances of being sexually harassed, regardless of what you wear people will harass/assault you.(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
It's common sense. People generally try to reduce being victims of crimes. Dressing less provocatively reduces your chances of being sexually harassed/assaulted (not mentioning rape because rape is different and generally clothes don't have a effect on the rapist).
In an ideal world, I should be able to leave my keys in my car and not have it robbed. But, that isn't going to happen because thieves don't give a **** about what my rights are and are going to take it. I value my car thus I make sure I keep it as safe as possible and reduce chance of it being robbed.
You can take the risks, as a human being you should be entitled to take whatever risks you want with your life. But, at least understand and comprehend that there are risks.
You cannot compare rape/sexual assault to robbery. A car is not a person. The point is by saying women should dress less provocatively to avoid rape it suggests that the women herself has done something wrong if she gets raped. YOU wore a mini skirt and went out clubbing. YOU knew that was a risk. It encourages victim blaming, 'she shouldn't have worn that/been drinking'.
This is basically promoting rape culture, rapists cause rape not the victim. What women are wearing should be completely irrelevant if they are raped or sexually assaulted.
