[concubine]

(Original post by coca)
This.

edit: Negged for this? Really?

I'm guessing because saying 'MEN should learn not to sexually assault' is little different from saying 'WOMEN should learn not to get sexually assaulted'.


Even if misandry is more socially acceptable, at least in this country, than misogyny, it's still not cool. Despite what some hardcore feminist types may believe, most men are not in fact rapists, and find the idea of sexually assaulting women (or other men) somewhat abhorrent.





Anyway, regarding the topic of the thread. It's China. This is hardly surprising. Cultural relativism can suck my dick. There are certain issues where the general view of 'the West', or at least Europeans, is the closest thing to the 'correct' view, and other countries are seriously lagging behind.

[green.tea]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Explain how that's relevant? Are you saying attractive people should get a pass to sexually assault someone else?

Most people would be ok with an flirtatious attractive girl. Don't you think its selfish of you to spoil it for a majority? If i decided i didnt like being looked at would it be reasonable for me to expect you and everyone else to go round looking at the ground to accommodate me?

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by green.tea)
Most people would be ok with an flirtatious attractive girl. Don't you think its selfish of you to spoil it for a majority? If i decided i didnt like being looked at would it be reasonable for me to expect you and everyone else to go round looking at the ground to accommodate me?

lol I don't care what most people are OK with, the point is when it involves somebody doing something with or to your body, which is your property, without consent, they are within their rights to be OK with it and I'm within mine, not to be. If most people were OK with rape should I tolerate being raped because that's what everyone else is OK with?

And somebody looking at you isn't invading your personal space or making physical contact with you without your consent. You're clutching at straws and providing no real argument against what I'm saying. This is going way off topic now.

[green.tea]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
lol I don't care what most people are OK with, the point is when it involves somebody doing something with or to your body, which is your property, without consent, they are within their rights to be OK with it and I'm within mine, not to be.

Fine. Say your not ok with it and if theyll stop.

And somebody looking at you isn't invading your personal space or making physical contact with you without your consent. You're clutching at straws and providing no real argument against what I'm saying. This is going way off topic now.

Clearly your the one with the problem and rather than addressing it your trying to change society to accommodate it. Suggest you move to afghanistan.

"A person with such attitude to sexuality may have reservations about nudity, public display of sexual affection, discussion of sexual matters, participating in romantic or sexual activity—reservations that exceed normal prevailing community standards."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prude

PRUDE

[TheBigGeek]

(Original post by Rennit)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18594692

Apparently 70% of people who did a survey in China believe that women play a big part of whether they are sexually harassed or not. It follows the broadcast of a picture of a very seethrough dress worn by a Chinese woman.

So the Chinese think that that women should "cherish their bodies" and not dress so provocatively as to avoid being sexually harassed.

What we must make the difference of however, is women who dress lightly (as to avoid overheating) and women who abuse the opportunity to dress provocatively (as to attract the males they want). Ofcourse, women are entitled to dress as they want, but females dressing provocatively shows a disregard for their own safety.

Males will act in their primal nature, we shouldn't forget that, and there are some elements of society where such behavior (sexual harassment) is allowed. There are also some parts of society that are sexually opressed (the Arabian culture is a good example of this, multiple wives leads alot of younger males without any access to female contact ). These males will act on instincts, and if females cover up more that will make them less of a target for such men.

It all falls down to the simple question of rights and responsibilities. Women have the right to dress up as they wish, but they also have a responsibility as to not sexually provoke people who are vulnerable to being provoked in such ways. They also have a duty of care to look after themselves and their bodies.

Thoughts, opinions please?

A similar question would be asking; If you left a few gold bars that were easy to steal in a poor neighbourhood, would you be to blame if they got stolen?
How would you answer this question aswell?

Oh god not this again. Between 75 - 95% of sexual assaults are committed by people known to the victim. Do you think someone's boyfriend/girlfriend/mother/father/brother etc etc is going to assault them because they were wearing a particular item of clothing?

And furthermore, when convicted rapists were asked if they remembered what their victims were wearing, a huge percentage (though I can't remember the exact number) said no.

It's not the clothing. It's the rapists.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by green.tea)
Fine. Say your not ok with it and if theyll stop.

If a woman is being raped and is too scared to say stop, should the rapist be excused?

It shouldn't even get to the point where you have to tell someone to stop. People should know beforehand what they're doing. If you go up to a stranger in public, regardless of gender, and touch them, you're running the risk of offending them, and once you've taken that risk you must then deal with the consequences. Whether you like it or not, without consent it is assault.

(Original post by green.tea)
Clearly your the one with the problem and rather than addressing it your trying to change society to accommodate it. Suggest you move to afghanistan.

I'm not trying to change anything. I'm stating facts, by law it is assault. Besides, only an idiot goes up to someone they've never met and strokes them in public. You're saying I should condition myself to tolerate something I am within my rights to find unacceptable just because society might think it's OK. Society can be wrong you know. You're letting what you think is the majority decide what is right and what is wrong for you, instead of being objective and taking into account basic human rights.

Would you do it to a woman you've never spoke to? Would you pinch her bum? If you did and she got you arrested, would she be in the right or wrong?

[green.tea]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
If a woman is being raped and is too scared to say stop, should the rapist be excused?

It shouldn't even get to the point where you have to tell someone to stop. People should know beforehand what they're doing. If you go up to a stranger in public, regardless of gender, and touch them, you're running the risk of offending them, and once you've taken that risk you must then deal with the consequences. Whether you like it or not, without consent it is assault

Is it? You think "a girl touched my chest and i was too scared to ask her to stop" would get you anything other than laughed at?

I'm not trying to change anything. I'm stating facts, by law it is assault. Besides, only an idiot goes up to someone they've never met and strokes them in public. You're saying I should condition myself to tolerate something I am within my rights to find unacceptable just because society might think it's OK. Society can be wrong you know. You're letting what you think is the majority decide what is right and what is wrong for you, instead of being objective and taking into account basic human rights.

Absolute garbage. You find me a single case of a reasonably attractive woman being prosecuted for touching a guys chest.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by green.tea)
Is it? You think "a girl touched my chest and i was too scared to ask her to stop" would get you anything other than laughed at?

No, because people are hypocrites and ignorant. I wasn't even that bothered, I just brought it up to prove a point in this thread. Again though, you are thinking from your own perspective and your own point of view -- if it's fine by you then everyone else must be fine with it or they are a prude. Try looking at things from other people's perspectives instead of your own.

(Original post by green.tea)
Absolute garbage. You find me a single case of a reasonably attractive woman being prosecuted for touching a guys chest.

Irrelevant. The guy (or girl, let's not be sexist and assume women aren't groped without their consent in public) is quite within his rights to pursue an assault case if he feels he's been assaulted.

Answer the question, would you go up to a girl you've never met before and pinch her bum?

[green.tea]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
No, because people are hypocrites and ignorant. I wasn't even that bothered, I just brought it up to prove a point in this thread. Again though, you are thinking from your own perspective and your own point of view -- if it's fine by you then everyone else must be fine with it or they are a prude. Try looking at things from other people's perspectives instead of your own.

Im not just going by me, im going by the consensus and your being out of sync with that makes you a prude. Look at the link i posted.

Irrelevant. The guy (or girl, let's not be sexist and assume women aren't groped without their consent in public) is quite within his rights to pursue an assault case if he feels he's been assaulted.

Answer the question, would you go up to a girl you've never met before and pinch her bum?

Yeah. On the dance floor you do it once and judge their reaction before doing it again and looking like it was you. Had it done to me and done it to others. A cheeky and fun way to make friends. Nobody reacts badly to me beyond narrow eyes because im very good looking but if they did id leave them to be offended by their prude selves.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by green.tea)
Im not just going by me, im going by the consensus and your being out of sync with that makes you a prude. Look at the link i posted.

And look at the one I'm about to post:

Sexual assault is an assault of a sexual nature on another person, or any sexual act committed without consent. Although sexual assaults most frequently are by a man on a woman, it may involve any combination of two or more men, women and children.[1]

The term sexual assault is used, in public discourse, as a generic term that is defined as any involuntary sexual act in which a person is threatened, coerced, or forced to engage against their will, or any sexual touching of a person who has not consented. This includes rape (such as forced vaginal, anal or oral penetration), inappropriate touching, forced kissing, child sexual abuse, or the torture of the victim in a sexual manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault

Including a sub-section for groping and touching through clothes.

(Original post by green.tea)
Yeah. On the dance floor you do it once and judge their reaction before doing it again and looking like it was you. Had it done to me and done it to others. A cheeky and fun way to make friends. Nobody reacts badly to me beyond narrow eyes because im very good looking but if they did id leave them to be offended by their prude selves.

Well you're a total idiot then.

Go and burn your tongue on your green tea please.

[green.tea]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
And look at the one I'm about to post:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault

Including a sub-section for groping and touching through clothes.



Well you're a total idiot then.

Go and burn your tongue on your green tea please.

Gerri halliwell did it to prince charles. Cheeky, funny, good all round, your a prude, bye.

[brendonbackflip]

Because every woman who gets sexually harassed is dressed provocatively...

[Chief Wiggum]

(Original post by brendonbackflip)
Because every woman who gets sexually harassed is dressed provocatively...

I don't think anyone is claiming that, are they?

[Reformed2010]

Pervs should stop being perverted.

[kka25]

(Original post by smd4std)
because wearing 6inch heals, tight mini skirts that almost show pants and squashed breasts and painted faces are comfortable for women. they don't do it for the pleasure of men.

This.

And they would argue; they want to feel sexy by wearing those clothes, not to attract others -

[Parthenon93]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
None of this proves anything.

70% of victims know their attacker -- so? Let's say for argument's sake the other 30% could have avoided the rape or decreased the risk by dressing more modestly, the point still stands because there is still a risk. Nobody said every single rape occurs because the woman drew attention to herself cos she was provocatively dressed. And before you say it's a minute amount, 30% is a pretty big number. What percentage of burglaries do you think occur on houses with locked windows and doors? More than half most likely, which means even though people just walking in to an open home and taking stuff is the minority scenario, it's still important to make sure that doesn't happen at all by lowering the risk and locking the doors and windows. You can't disregard one scenario and the need to take precautions just because the majority of rapes/burglaries happen outside of those circumstances. It makes no sense.

"The vast majority of rapes are planned" - so? The attacker could have had an infatuation with the victim over a period of time... maybe she dresses a bit slutty (can't think of a better word) and that's how he first noticed her, this infatuation develops. Eventually he has the opportunity to rape... fits perfectly with it being "planned" and needing the opportunity.

The vast majority of rapists are motivated by power, anger, and control, not sexual gratification.


What part did you fail to get?

By some estimates, over 70% of rape victims know their attackers.


No one dresses "sluttily" as you put it 70% of their time. Doesn't take a rocket scientists to see that rapes are NOT triggered by clothing.
Burglary and rape is not the same thing. I wouldn't punch someone just because they are stupid and sexist. It is called restraint.

WHY IS RESTRAINT FROM MEN ****ING TOO MUCH TO ASK?

And please don't say alpha males can't control themselves when provoked. For example, I don't see males not restraining themselves during army training or when their boss is giving them a piece of their mind.

But rapists don't feel the need to restrain themselves, because people like you are so happy to blame the victim and too blinded to see actual logic.

Somehow when it comes to rape, it becomes okay to become the victim for the victim instead of the criminal for being the criminal.

[Parthenon93]

(Original post by kka25)
This.

And they would argue; they want to feel sexy by wearing those clothes, not to attract others -

You would be surprised at the very small fraction of rapes that actually occur because of 6 inch heels

Most rapes occur due to fantasies, rage and power reassertion.

One would think you would look into the statistics before making such patronising comments.

[Chief Wiggum]

(Original post by Parthenon93)

Somehow when it comes to rape, it becomes okay to become the victim for the victim instead of the criminal for being the criminal.

Is that really what the thread is about though? I wouldn't have said so.

I'm pretty sure (well, I hope) that everyone knows it's the rapist to blame for the rape, just like it's the thief to blame for stealing something. However, I thought the topic of this thread was whether it was possible that by avoiding dressing provocatively, women could reduce their risk of being raped. I have no idea whether wearing less revealing clothes reduces the risk of being raped; it would be difficult to prove either way in my opinion.

I have seen police posters advising people to keep valuables out of sight in their cars etc to avoid theft; is this not just a similar notion to that (although of course I can't say whether or not it would be effective)?

[kka25]

(Original post by Parthenon93)
You would be surprised at the very small fraction of rapes that actually occur because of 6 inch heels

Most rapes occur due to fantasies, rage and power reassertion.

One would think you would look into the statistics before making such patronising comments.

Way to go by misquoting me

Most? So the rest would support the other arguments right?

Patronizing? If you don't like to be criticized then don't wear the bloody thing - the posters and the rest of us here have the every right to express our opinions on the matter.

[skunky x]

(Original post by vandub)
Right, thanks for that, because had you not said it, as a man, I'd probably have been going out later to sexually assault someone. Cheers for the heads up.



Yes, the views expressed in the survey are bad, but what you just implied is ****ty aswell.

Fair point, sorry - I was being passionate and didn't realise what I'd typed.

That's totally not what I meant - that all men would sexually assault someone unless I told them otherwise. I just meant, as it's kinda hard to just tell the men who would prior to them doing it (as no-one knows who would sexually assault a woman) that all men need to be told it.

But yes - the men who would be stupid and disrespectful enough to do it need to be told extra.

Sorry again.