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UN & Goldman Sachs chief calls on EU to force member states to be multicultural

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    The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.

    Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural.

    He also suggested the UK government's immigration policy had no basis in international law.

    He was being quizzed by the Lords EU home affairs sub-committee which is investigating global migration.

    Mr Sutherland, who is non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs International and a former chairman of oil giant BP, heads the Global Forum on Migration and Development, which brings together representatives of 160 nations to share policy ideas.

    He told the House of Lords committee migration was a "crucial dynamic for economic growth" in some EU nations "however difficult it may be to explain this to the citizens of those states".




    Migration was a 'crucial dynamic for economic growth' in some European countries, 'however difficult it may be to explain this to the citizens'.
    The declining populations of some EU countries meant that multiculturalism was not only inevitable, but deeply desirable.

    "It’s impossible to consider that the degree of homogeneity which is implied by the other argument can survive because states have to become more open states, in terms of the people who inhabit them".

    He concurred with the helpful suggestion of the (obviously unbiased) committee chairman, Lord Hannay, that UK policies on limiting student visas had no international legal validity. Limiting immigration risked Britain’s reputation for being a 'tolerant, open society', he claimed – and he contrasted Euro-intransigence* with well-known social paradises like the United States, which
    "accommodate more readily those from other backgrounds than we do ourselves, who still nurse a sense of our homogeneity and difference from others. And that’s precisely what the European Union, in my view, should be doing its best to undermine".

    "The UK has been very constructively engaged in this whole process from the beginning and very supportive of me personally".


    Web definitions:
    intransigency: the trait of being intransigent; stubbornly refusing to compromise.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...s-grandee.html


    I urge you all to read this in full!

    No racist comments will be acceptable.

    No comments that amounts to treason against Europe is acceptable.

    Discuss.
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    I don't see why Europe needs to be multicultural, which I assume means turning Europe African or Asian. You can't artificially force out white dominance in white countries. I find that racist.


    (Original post by Ano1)
    No comments that amounts to treason against Europe is acceptable.
    Wut?
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    I don't see why Europe needs to be multicultural, which I assume means turning Europe African or Asian. You can't artificially force out white dominance in white countries. I find that racist.




    Wut?
    You know. Thanks for the neg rep
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    (Original post by Ano1)
    You know. Thanks for the neg rep
    I didn't even neg you.
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    There is no such thing as national cultural homogeneity, especially in capitalist societies.
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    He's looking at it from a purely financial point of view and if that was the only important thing then i agree with him, in a capitalist market you need the best workers that you can get whether they come from Britain or Timbuktu however most concerns about immigration are not based of financial concerns and you are going to have a very tough job convincing the majority of a country like the UK that multiculturalism is a good thing. Most people don't understand or care about economic growth outside the guy on the T.V telling them we are screwed, however they do care about the various articles telling them about people of foreign cultures bringing very negative things here.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    He's looking at it from a purely financial point of view and if that was the only important thing then i agree with him, in a capitalist market you need the best workers that you can get whether they come from Britain or Timbuktu however most concerns about immigration are not based of financial concerns and you are going to have a very tough job convincing the majority of a country like the UK that multiculturalism is a good thing. Most people don't understand or care about economic growth outside the guy on the T.V telling them we are screwed, however they do care about the various articles telling them about people of foreign cultures bringing very negative things here.
    Why would you say the majority are anti-multiculturalism? That depends on how the word is defined, but Labour and LDs get a lot more votes at every level than BNP or UKIP, which suggests to me that very few people support "cultural homogeneity" being enforced.
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    (Original post by ScheduleII)
    Why would you say the majority are anti-multiculturalism? That depends on how the word is defined, but Labour and LDs get a lot more votes at every level than BNP or UKIP, which suggests to me that very few people support "cultural homogeneity" being enforced.
    well multiculturalism isn't just a phrase for "bring in lots of foreign people" and being anti-multiculturalism doesn't mean you are anti-immigration. here is a good overview of peoples attitudes towards multiculturalism and one interesting thing is the social groups that seem to be heavily against the concept are the groups usually associated with labour which gives the impression that although they vote for labour they might not agree with their policies on multiculturalism (just view them as better all round than the conservatives)

    the multicultural stance of the UK is based on the normative term which is "positive endorsement, even celebration, of communal diversity, typically based on either the right of different groups to respect and recognition, or to the alleged benefits to the larger society of moral and cultural diversity”
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    well multiculturalism isn't just a phrase for "bring in lots of foreign people" and being anti-multiculturalism doesn't mean you are anti-immigration. here is a good overview of peoples attitudes towards multiculturalism and one interesting thing is the social groups that seem to be heavily against the concept are the groups usually associated with labour which gives the impression that although they vote for labour they might not agree with their policies on multiculturalism (just view them as better all round than the conservatives)

    the multicultural stance of the UK is based on the normative term which is "positive endorsement, even celebration, of communal diversity, typically based on either the right of different groups to respect and recognition, or to the alleged benefits to the larger society of moral and cultural diversity”
    What is multiculturalism? That report used the term without defining it.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    What is multiculturalism? That report used the term without defining it.
    As a view it is the belief that several different cultures can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country. As a political standpoint it varies, it will always work off that basic definition but its implementation (and success) differs from area to area, the report is referring to policies (in the UK) that are deemed to be moving towards that goal.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    As a view it is the belief that several different cultures can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country. As a political standpoint it varies, it will always work off that basic definition but its implementation (and success) differs from area to area, the report is referring to policies (in the UK) that are deemed to be moving towards that goal.
    Sociocultural traits aren't distributed uniformly amongst British people, so there are already "several different cultures [...] [coexisting] peacefully and equitably in a single country"; the all-encompassing term, "British culture" is a misnomer and 'multiculturalism' is not a novel phenomenon.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Sociocultural traits aren't distributed uniformly amongst British people, so there are already "several different cultures [...] [coexisting] peacefully and equitably in a single country"; the all-encompassing term, "British culture" is a misnomer, and 'multiculturalism' is not a novel phenomenon.
    I agree the term British culture is a misnomer as people from different parts of the UK can have more in common with someone from across the world than someone 100 miles away. However multiculturalism does not require the culture to be national, it could be the culture of a city or village or even a street. The important part is two distinctly different cultures come together and they get on co existing with each other which is something a lot of people in the UK seem to think is not happening when certain "foreign" cultures are introduced.

    Multiculturalism requires all cultures to be able to co-exist, if one is not able to the whole thing falls apart.
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    (Original post by Ano1)
    No comments that amounts to treason against Europe is acceptable.

    Discuss.
    You can't enforce that. Also, if criticising a country or a continent is treason, so be it. I've criticised a lot of countries in the world
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    I agree the term British culture is a misnomer as people from different parts of the UK can have more in common with someone from across the world than someone 100 miles away. However multiculturalism does not require the culture to be national, it could be the culture of a city or village or even a street. The important part is two distinctly different cultures come together and they get on co existing with each other which is something a lot of people in the UK seem to think is not happening when certain "foreign" cultures are introduced.

    Multiculturalism requires all cultures to be able to co-exist, if one is not able to the whole thing falls apart.
    It is impossible and therefore unreasonable to expect everyone to get along with everyone else. Successful coexistence in Britain is simply defined by being a law-abiding citizen; within this framework, people have the liberty to possess any given sociocultural interest or trait and correspondingly associate more with others who also possess that trait. Everyone has a friendship group with whom they associate more than they do other groups/individuals, so I fail to understand why this becomes intolerably 'divisive' or problematic when non-British people are concerned.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    It is impossible and therefore unreasonable to expect everyone to get along with everyone else. Successful coexistence in Britain is simply defined by being a law-abiding citizen; within this framework, people have the liberty to possess any given sociocultural interest or trait and correspondingly associate more with others who also possess that trait. Everyone has a friendship group with whom they associate more than they do other groups/individuals, so I fail to understand why this becomes intolerably 'divisive' or problematic when non-British people are concerned.
    It doesn't require you to be friends with the other cultures but it does require all cultures to A) be peaceful towards each other (no violence caused by cultural differences) and B) for all cultures to be treated as equal (in terms of validity).

    Cultural clashes have happened between groups who have been here a long time however multiculturalism can only really be seen to fail when a government begins to recognize it as a goal and begins introducing policies towards making that goal a reality. That started 30 years ago and that was the point where large influxes of "foreigners" began moving to Britain and their cultures were radically different than the ones that were already here which has resulted in clashes.

    If you put two wolves in an enclosure with a piece of meat the wolves will fight over it, if you put two wolves and a pig in an enclosure with a piece of meat the wolves will team up to fight the pig. It is the same principle, the cultures that are more different than the rest are the ones people disagree with the most and are the ones people will want gone, in this case that happens to be cultures brought in by foreigners hence peoples growing dislike to immigration and association of immigration with multiculturalism.

    The simple reason why this becomes more problematic with non-Britons is because their cultures are the least compatible with the ones that are already here.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    It doesn't require you to be friends with the other cultures but it does require all cultures to A) be peaceful towards each other (no violence caused by cultural differences) and B) for all cultures to be treated as equal (in terms of validity).

    Cultural clashes have happened between groups who have been here a long time however multiculturalism can only really be seen to fail when a government begins to recognize it as a goal and begins introducing policies towards making that goal a reality. That started 30 years ago and that was the point where large influxes of "foreigners" began moving to Britain and their cultures were radically different than the ones that were already here which has resulted in clashes.

    If you put two wolves in an enclosure with a piece of meat the wolves will fight over it, if you put two wolves and a pig in an enclosure with a piece of meat the wolves will team up to fight the pig. It is the same principle, the cultures that are more different than the rest are the ones people disagree with the most and are the ones people will want gone, in this case that happens to be cultures brought in by foreigners hence peoples growing dislike to immigration and association of immigration with multiculturalism.

    The simple reason why this becomes more problematic with non-Britons is because their cultures are the least compatible with the ones that are already here.
    There is a strange tendency in cultural discourse to treat 'culture' as a real, tangible concept. No longer are social relations perlustrated at the scale of the individual, but an arbitrary set of traits are now seen as insurmountably bonded to an individual as a product of their location of birth and/or ethnicity, so this 'group' automatically becomes a problem. As you have acknowledged, British culture is a misnomer because sociocultural traits are not delineated at the national level, yet you continue to posit the circumstance of being non-British brings along a certain set of traits that are suddenly vastly distinct from all British people's sociocultural traits.

    The extent to which somebody can get along with another person is idiosyncratic, and cannot be transposed onto anybody else because they are incidentally born in the same area. Any pretension to law-abiding X being necessarily incompatible with law-abiding Y is an attempt to project your idiosyncratic social preferences onto the population because you artificially believe your birthplace implies a social kinship. The only people who are societally incompatible/distant are criminals, which is why they have been removed from society. A committed British Muslim would sooner associate with a committed Pakistani Muslim than a British antitheist (assuming they define themselves primarily by their religious values and the two Muslims are of the same sect), yet both the British Muslim and British antitheist will be placed under the banner of 'British culture' and said to be necessarily distant from the Pakistani Muslim who is said to be following 'Pakistani culture'. For this reason, your wolves and pigs analogy is invalid in its suggestion that the differences are manifestly pronounced, insofar as there is no psychological overlap between the people apparently under these two categorical 'cultures'. I cannot conceive any 'set' of legal traits (which are called 'cultures'), much less something that is present within tens of thousands of immigrants, that necessarily precludes migrants having social relations with all British people and creates a situation where one British person would always prefer to associate with another British person (regardless of their psychological traits) than a migrant.

    The act of subsuming thousands of varied people's psychological traits and individuality into a single category implies they are homogeneous, and that the traits seen to be indicative of this category are necessarily present in the people who you choose to place into this category. Identify a trait that is extant in and exclusive to all British people that allows you to say all British people are in one group that is disconnected from all migrants.

    I don't believe the 'cultural clashes' are a function of an incoming 'group' being incompatible with every facet of British society and its citizens (they haven't broken the law and are therefore compatible with British society), but identity politics and apparent 'cultural disparities' being given unwarranted focus. The clash becomes driven by what is now a manifest identity-based difference (as opposed to a tangible sociocultural difference) because they have been told they are of 'X group' and are all different and incompatible with 'Y group'. The term 'multiculturalism' itself bestows undue rigidity to natural social nuances between every individual and creates a situation where somebody is now in a definitively 'separate' group, as opposed to being another British citizen with typical and acceptable (again, they haven't broken the law so are not doing anything wrong) variations in their interests, politics and preferences. When a British person does something unpleasant/unfavourable it's because they as an individual are disagreeable, but when a migrant does something unpleasant/unfavourable it's 'because of their culture'. Consequently, a group mentality is formed and the misnomered banner (and everybody who is attributed to it) comes under attack, regardless of the variations of the individuals within it.
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    What a load of rubbish.

    How multicultural a country is has no effect on its economic performance.

    If anything, a multiculrutal country is more likely to perform poorly.

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