[amyelizabeth2681]

(Original post by That Bearded Man)
Thank you, THIS!

All this "I'm not voting" just shows how easy it must be to ignore the students, no electoral consequences, if every student got behind a party imagine how strong it would be!

Oh and responding to a different point, there was a referendum on removing FPTP, it just got a low turnout and who did turnout said no to change

Exactly! If everyone between the ages from 18-24 would actually bother voting, then maybe we can actually be heard instead of being constantly screwed (for lack of a better expression) by policians.

As for FPTP and the failed referendum, it was such a shame that more people didn't bother educating themselves more about what proportional representation would mean for the country, and many people unfortunately fell for all the scare mongering that went on and chose to keep an outdated system like FPTP, so the people on here that complain on the voting system really shouldn't be complaining at all if they didn't even bother vote.

[jo1692]

(Original post by amyelizabeth2681)
I read the posts on this thread and think the problem is obvious. It's BECAUSE young people believe their vote won't matter that we're easily dismissed as a generation. The same reason Nick Clegg seemed to think students were a dispensable part of the electorate when he chose to go against his word and raise tuition fees. It's that type of dismissive attitude that lets today's politicians use young people as the scapegoats, the first to sacrifice when things get hard, because they know there will be no electoral consequences against said policians. So you may feel like your vote won't matter, particularly under FPTP, and maybe you're right, but unless we all try and get behind SOMETHING, we'll simply keep getting dismissed by politicians as a part of society that aren't worth the trouble of accommodating come election time.

I agree. I totally understand why so many people feel so disenchanted with the current political system and feel like there's no point in voting. But on the other hand, if politicians know that a section of society consistently doesn't vote, so they won't lose votes by pissing them off or gain votes by doing something beneficial to them, then they'll just ignore them (I know that sounds quite awful, but we can't rely on politicians' benevolence here). This is a difficult situation to get out of because it involves young people voting for people who they don't think represent them, in order to change to another party / withdraw their vote in following elections to send a message. Tricky one!

[amyelizabeth2681]

(Original post by MostUncivilised)
That's what's known as an "I'm alright Jack" attitude. As long as you can pay your insurance fees, who cares about the people dying in the streets?

In Australia and Britain you can always take up private insurance if that is your preference. You will still be paying less in the form of the NHS-portion of your NI contributions and your insurance premiums than you would for equal coverage in the US.

I've had experience with the healthcare systems of all three countries, and I can categorically say that assertions that you never wait for treatment in American hospitals is a flat-out lie and I had good, corporate insurance from my employer.

The claims that healthcare is rationed out in countries with "socialised medicine" (or that it's a unique characteristic) is also total *******s; firstly, most Americans need to get permission from their HMO to obtain medical treatments. And permission is frequently declined, even where the treatment is urgent and life-saving. And then you have the ultimate form of rationing; you don't get any if you don't have insurance! It seems the American system rations care more than does a "socialised" system.

Does the US have some medical centres and hospitals which practice bleeding edge medicine and provide excellent patient outcomes? Sure. If a nation of 300 million didn't have more advanced medical facilities than one with 60 million, it would be very sus indeed.

But national pride is the most Americans get in the way of benefits; there's a 0 chance their HMO would ever pay for one of their patients to go to a facility like MD Anderson.

However, Britain regularly sends patients for oncology and other specialised medical treatments to hospitals in the US where expensive new treatments will save the patient's life. The BBC ran an article the other day about a particular cancer treatment available at a hospital in Miami, that the NHS spent £50,000 to send the boy there to save his life, while Americans in Dade county with the same diagnosis and no insurance just have to die.

The grand irony is that the US spends twice as much on healthcare as a proportion of GDP, and yet covers many less of its citizens, has worse health outcomes statistically, and tens of billions sucked into the administrative hall of mirrors set up by the HMOs to extract maximum profit. The system is simply indefensible on any level.

It's funny that you say this actually, I was just having this argument with my sister (who lives in America) and it is ridiculous just how out of touch the American people are with the needs of others, particularly when it comes to healthcare. They believe that any extra tax payed to the government would result in an ineffective healthcare system, yet complain about how they're getting ripped off by insurance companies. I grew up in the US myself and know that, even if you have health insurance which is provided by your employer, you still have to pay a percentage of doctor consultations, medicine and care you need. This myth that because America's system is somehow better because it's private is so misguided it's surreal. People will literally choose to die because they simply cannot afford the medical treatment required to treat a condition. What kind of a country allows its people to be faced with that option?

The worse part is, the majority of Americans think this way. They believe a nationalised health care system would be shoddy and unreliable and are unwilling to have their taxed raised to form the foundations of providing health care for all. Yes the NHS isn't perfect, but at the very least those who can't afford private insurance have an option. There's a reason it's considered the "Crown Jewel" of the UK.

And you're right, the US is leading when it comes to pioneering medical treatment, but what good does it do when even less advanced treatments, such as bone marrow transplants, can cost as much as $200,000? Sort of defeats the purpose of having some of the best medical treatment in the world if it's unattainable to those who need it.

[Drunk Punx]

(Original post by MostUncivilised)
x

...huh. Consider me schooled.

[Aramiss18]

(Original post by Reformed2010)
Well then your girlfriend has completely missed the reason there is a minimum age to voting. Which is to set the general standard to which it is believed citizens have the rational capability to decide on socio-eco-political matters. The average OAP is better suited to understanding such issues, compare to the average 14 year old.

She's fully aware of the reason,it's just the reasoning for preventing old people past a certain point is different.

[amyelizabeth2681]

(Original post by jo1692)
I agree. I totally understand why so many people feel so disenchanted with the current political system and feel like there's no point in voting. But on the other hand, if politicians know that a section of society consistently doesn't vote, so they won't lose votes by pissing them off or gain votes by doing something beneficial to them, then they'll just ignore them (I know that sounds quite awful, but we can't rely on politicians' benevolence here). This is a difficult situation to get out of because it involves young people voting for people who they don't think represent them, in order to change to another party / withdraw their vote in following elections to send a message. Tricky one!

It is tricky, but personally it's better to be active about SOMETHING as opposed to just dismissing politics as "ahhhhh well won't matter anyway if I vote or not". It's not a coincidence that the part of the electorate that is protected the most by politicians is the one that has the tendency to be the most consistent voters.

And voting is difficult for young people because they feel like they aren't being represented, but all it takes is a bit of research. Search political party manifestos, see what their policies say, then choose which one is agreeable to you. I know a lot won't bother, but if only a few try to at least become interested, it's a step in the right direction.

[CJG21]

(Original post by wibletg)
What's wrong with UKIP?

Don't tell me you're going to follow the main 3 parties and tell me they're 'racist'. No, they want to leave the EU - that isn't racist, it's sensible.

I don't feel they are racist at all. I don't partially support any of the three main parties at the moment. I am a supporter of labour but Milliband is an idiot, and I hope he's gone by the time I am able to vote.

[concubine]

(Original post by Psyk)
I'm no longer under 25 (turned 25 last month), but things have been just fine for me, so I don't have any particular reason to be angry at the government or anything.

Eh.

I've not really been effected, and I'm pretty confident that things will be okay for me in the near future, but I still find the way that young people (especially those who are around 18 now) are basically being screwed (and, by many, blamed for the position they find themselves in) somewhat disgusting.



It'd be nice if more people at least acknowledged how good things have been for them in the manner that my parents do, instead of bitching about increasing retirement ages and shrinking pensions (as if these things will somehow magically not hit young people EVEN HARDER), and claiming that all young people are just too lazy to get jobs (contrary to what many claim, I'm certain that most young people out of work DO ACTUALLY WANT TO WORK).

[Llamageddon]

(Original post by johnnyavfc)
I won't be voting for any of the main 3 parties.

This is precisely why the 3 main parties are able to ignore the youth vote.

[SaySaam]

(Original post by . . .)
Some of us don't have the opportunity to vote. Even though some of the decisions directly affect us. I think we are completely within are right to complain.

Yeah I get that some people are too young to vote, and some people don't qualify. Obviously you can't vote. But if you have the chance to vote and don't, you have no right to moan when things don't go your way.

If you vote for someone and they don't get in power, at least you've made your point that you don't agree with the views of the people in power, and you've shown your support for the smaller parties who better represent you. They then have more legitimacy to make a fuss about certain policies which they don't agree with, because more people have supported them

[MostUncivilised]

(Original post by wibletg)
What's wrong with UKIP?

Don't tell me you're going to follow the main 3 parties and tell me they're 'racist'. No, they want to leave the EU - that isn't racist, it's sensible.

They may not be racist, but they are hypocrites. Claiming to be libertarian and then turning around and opposing marriage equality says to me that they've not quite understand the libertarian philosophy.

That or they're craven hypocrites who don't want to upset all the 65+ males who jumped on-board.

[SaySaam]

(Original post by Martyn*)
The government is never what you want. So much for having no right to moan! There is no one person in power; parties get into power, and there is a social dynamic involved. A party holds a particular ideology which may or may not seem favourable to you. But who voted for austerity? I know of no-one who voted for austerity. Should we now not moan?

If I could have voted at the time, I would have voted for somebody who believed in austerity to provide long term stability, but that's beside the point.

If you didn't vote and could have voted, then you've wasted your chance to show your opinion. Sometimes people have to settle for the best available, which is particularly the case with choosing a government. If you didn't try to make a difference with your vote, the smaller parties don't have the legitimacy to make a difference through MPs if they get one, or through lobbying if they don't. If people don't try to elect the MP who is best for their area then they have no right to say, "oh everyone else is stupid they made a mistake and chose the wrong person". They should have tried to choose the right one.

[Genocidal]

(Original post by Organ)
Where exactly do you plan on going? Most countries politics are pretty awful.

Actually I'm going to be moving at all times with myself and a couple of friends; a Canadian and a Finn, which is quite strange. Since we'll be moving at all times and I don't intend on coming back then politics won't really matter at all since I won't be around long enough for it to have an impact.

We can all sustain ourselves online so it's perfect.

[Charlottie93]

If everyone is so sick of the way we are being treated then why don't you all join forces and do something to stop it? I mean yeah we may never be able to change things on a big scale but if we got our voices heard then maybe they would have to make some small concessions which could benefit us!

I know most of the people on here don't worry about Housing benefit e.t.c. as the majority of us are Students but yeah where there's a will there's a way... anyone with me on this one?

[Psyk]

(Original post by concubine)
Eh.

I've not really been effected, and I'm pretty confident that things will be okay for me in the near future, but I still find the way that young people (especially those who are around 18 now) are basically being screwed (and, by many, blamed for the position they find themselves in) somewhat disgusting.

Yeah, me too. But I don't feel I have any reason to believe any party would do a better job than any other. Every party will say they'll do something, which they may not do, and even if they do it, I don't really have the expertise to judge if that's really going to make things any better.

[MostUncivilised]

(Original post by Martyn*)
Moaning and complaining are the same thing.

Ah.. if you didn't mean should read as "if you didn't vote"

[Empire08]

(Original post by Charlottie93)
If everyone is so sick of the way we are being treated then why don't you all join forces and do something to stop it? I mean yeah we may never be able to change things on a big scale but if we got our voices heard then maybe they would have to make some small concessions which could benefit us!

I know most of the people on here don't worry about Housing benefit e.t.c. as the majority of us are Students but yeah where there's a will there's a way... anyone with me on this one?

What do you propose? First past the post means voting is pretty useless, especially if you live in a safe seat. Protesters are portrayed as violent youths in the media.

[Charlottie93]

(Original post by Empire08)
What do you propose? First past the post means voting is pretty useless, especially if you live in a safe seat. Protesters are portrayed as violent youths in the media.

I was thinking either something along the lines of a pressure group or starting our own party and whilst we may never make a direct impact on the three main political parties we may make some of the older generation realise that we're not all the same!

I think the reason that so many people see teenagers as a nuisance e.t.c. is because they think we're all the same, I mean here on TSR we have some amazing students in a wide range of age groups and from social backgrounds if we could do something to show people that yes we're not happy and we can come up with alternative solutions in X, Y and Z maybe they'd be less likely to look at us with contempt?

Maybe if we were all willing to do something we could set up a society or w/e on here and come up with some ideas on what we could do if there were enough people willing to do so...