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Is the British (or any) Army a Good Thing?

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    The army is not a good thing per se, but it's certainly a necessary thing; states without a means to protect themselves are ultimately doomed. The real question is whether what we do with our armed forces is good or not, and I haven't heard one convincing argument that what the British Army has been up to recently is good.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Oh, I don't know. I don't work for MI6. Quite a few I'd suspect. Russia, China, and obviously a lot of the so-called pariah states such as N Korea and Iran. Plus of course a lot of western countries - pretty certain that countries like the US and UK are still busy manufacturing and/or researching chemical and biological weapons.

    But again, you originally had a hard on about Iraq having "the means" to manufacture chemical weapons and as I have said I doubt there's a country in the world that doesn't have the means.
    So you're running on 100% speculation.
    Awesome. Could have almost believed you worked for MI6 there.

    A hard on? You mean the hidden labs found set up ready to go? I'm sure Canada have the exact same labs hidden somewhere in Ontario.
    PS. How do you fold a tin foil hat?

    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    And what exactly did that link have to provide specifically that's relevant to the point that either you or I am making??
    That invading Iraq on the grounds of WMD was justified.
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    (Original post by Yung Mon£y)
    That invading Iraq on the grounds of WMD was justified.
    No, I asked what it had to provide, not the assertion that it made.

    Tell me what point that it makes that illustrates why exactly it was a good decision to invade a nation that didn't have any large scale weapons facilities or at the very least, not to that comparable in size and capability as outlined in the dossier used as a pretext presented to the British public.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    No, I asked what it had to provide, not the assertion that it made.

    Tell me what point that it makes that illustrates why exactly it was a good decision to invade a nation that didn't have any large scale weapons facilities or at the very least, not to that comparable in size and capability as outlined in the dossier used as a pretext presented to the British public.
    What they found showed they were keeping and hiding the facilities to make WMD's.
    Kinda obvious
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    (Original post by Yung Mon£y)
    What they found showed they were keeping and hiding the facilities to make WMD's.
    Kinda obvious
    :facepalm:

    Facilities that were destroyed in 1991, and WMD's that couldn't have been made after 1994 as I've evidenced.

    Can you see now why I thought this was going in circles?
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    :facepalm:

    Facilities that were destroyed in 1991, and WMD's that couldn't have been made after 1994 as I've evidenced.

    Can you see now why I thought this was going in circles?
    " U.S. troops have found 11 mobile laboratories buried south of Baghdad that are capable of biological and chemical uses, a U.S. general said Monday."

    Yeah they were so destroyed they could be used to make chemical weapons :facepalm:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...sprj.irq.labs/
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    WW2 is different, Hitler was about to invade the UK. Iraq and Afghan pose little threat to us, it wasn't until AFTER we invaded them that we had the london bombings and all those security threats at heathrow. How does a soldier dying over there protect us? It doesn't, we've been there 10 years and achieved nothing, apart from kill hundreds of British soldiers and thousands more innocent civilians. This war was only started because Tony Blair has his head up Mr Bush's arse.

    That being said , we do need an army because it acts as a deterrent from invasion, plus it creates thousands of jobs, and the army provide humanitarian support to other countries
    What was 9/11 again? Oh right a terrorist attack that was possible due to Afghanistan hosting the terrorists.
    As for Iraq, it depends if you are reactive or pro-active in the defence of your country. Just look at the **** Kim Yong pulled before he died. Do you think Hussein would have gone into the night quietly?
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    9/11 is a one off event, a reaction to the gulf war, which was another pointless war, and it happened in the US, not UK, bloody yanks dragged us into it. There isn't solid evidence that Afghanistan had a part in it . Also there are pictures of Bush and Blair shaking hands with hussein, proving politicians are 2 faced idiots. Also, we supplied these terrorists with weapons. Killing taliban in Iraq doesn't help protect our country, seeing as most potential terrorists end up being arrested in the UK. I suppose you think we needed to be protected from Argentinians during the falklands war?

    That being said, i have the utmost respect for the armed forces as they put their lives on the line to do what they think is right, it's just that the politicians don't know which enemies and wars to fight.
    How the hell was 9/11 a reaction to the Gulf War?! That was Iraq invading Kuwait in the early 90's...:confused:
    So we don't count as the West? Just listen to the Grand Ayatollah in Iran if you want to see a reason why we are also a target.

    You are confusing events in a gross manner. Shaking hands with Hussein doesn't mean they are two faced. The problem came when he refused to stand down. And the Taliban, not Al Qaeda, where given weapons to fight the Russians. Again the problem came when they refused to give AQ up.

    So you would rather hand the Falklands to the Arg's even though that's not what the inhabitants want? How selfish.
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    (Original post by Yung Mon£y)
    So you're running on 100% speculation.
    Awesome.
    And you're running of first hand experience; an ex UN weapons inspector no doubt.:rolleyes:
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    Overall I don't think it's fair to say the army is, in general, a good or a bad thing. It comes down to situations. I will say, however, that the extent of unquestioning adulation is quite scary (though nothing on the US). The notional purpose of the army may be to protect us, but wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are certainly not doing that; if anything they increase the already high level of anti-Western sentiment among the people of those countries and put us in more danger. Similarly, while some soldiers may be heroes, to say that all are is a wilful blindness to further your patriotism, and is quite meaningless.
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    No, i'd rather have 250 british soldiers alive and able to be with their families on christmas, not fighting to get an island that has no strategic value to us.
    Then you are a complete pussy mate. That is sovereign territory.

    Just how feeble have you got to be to even consider standing by and watching while a a foreign force invades and occupies sovereign territory?

    Yes - Let's have our soldiers give one another a big hug while we all sing kumbaya together and enjoy Christmas with mummy - while the Argies stroll into Stanley and raise their flag outside government house.

    Thank God that the British Army is full of men who are nothing like you.
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    No, i'd rather have 250 british soldiers alive and able to be with their families on christmas, not fighting to get an island that has no strategic value to us. Ok, i'll take back what i said about 9/11. But, why, after the invasion of the middle east in 2001, did we have the london bombings and several arrests at heathrow of terrorists when the soldiers are suppose to be preventing this from happening?
    So **** the inhabitants of the Falkland islands? You are selfish as hell and morally disgust me. You don't even recognise the sacrifice those soldiers made to keep UK citizens free.
    You don't have a clue about the Middle East if you thought 9/11 was tied to the Gulf War. Just keep chuggin fosters lad and stay out of any convos to do with foreign politics.
    So does that mean the police have completely failed us because crime still exists? Whatever dude, I'm not going to waste my time to rebuke infantile arguments.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Then you are a complete pussy mate. That is sovereign territory.

    Just how feeble have you got to be to even consider standing by and watching while a a foreign force invades and occupies sovereign territory?

    Yes - Let's have our soldiers give one another a big hug while we all sing kumbaya together and enjoy Christmas with mummy - while the Argies stroll into Stanley and raise their flag outside government house.

    Thank God that the British Army is full of men who are nothing like you.
    Agree with you 100% on this point.

    (Original post by Howard)
    And you're running of first hand experience; an ex UN weapons inspector no doubt.:rolleyes:
    It is possible for the UN inspectors to not have noticed every hidden lab...

    However, while it is still plausible that Iraq did have the means to make chem weapons, what I would really like to know is how much Halliburton made from all of this. Considering the environmental law changes Cheney made to aid Halliburton with fracking, I'm not going to under-estimate the idea that a driving force behind the war was profit.
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    So you value an island thousands of miles away from us over human life. Nice.
    I couldn't care less if it's on the moon. Fact is that the island is British territory inhabited by British citizens.

    We should be grateful that there are brave men and women who are prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice to protect that territory and those citizens from foreign invasion.

    Again, we can only thank God that we're not relying on weaklings like yourself.
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    weaklings? you really are childish. Guess what, i applied to be an officer in the armed forces and am awaiting an interview offer. Just because i don't agree with the reasons behind the war doesn't mean im ungrateful. As i did say earlier i respect them.
    You won't get the job.
    Just saying bro that the army aint looking for guys to sit on their ass playing xbox saying "yeah well i dont know anyone there so why should I serve there?"
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    weaklings? you really are childish. Guess what, i applied to be an officer in the armed forces and am awaiting an interview offer. Just because i don't agree with the reasons behind the war doesn't mean im ungrateful. As i did say earlier i respect them.
    Am I supposed to be impressed? I couldn't care less if you've applied to be an astronaut.
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    No, just want you to stop thinking that im ungrateful and don't respect British forces when i do, i just said i disagreed with some of the reasons behind the war
    Actually I can see how your point of view could be very insulting to a lot of soldiers.

    I'd certainly keep your opinion about the Falklands War to yourself during your interview - I doubt the recruiting officer will want to hear that you think that the 250 odd men who are buried on that island wasted their lives in a war that wasn't worth fighting and should have stayed home instead.

    Why not take is stage further and go into a pub in Aldershott and share your feelings with some members of the parachute regiment and then tell them that you plan on becoming an officer and leading them into battle?
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    On the subject of the Falkland islands. The islands as a British overseas territory actually provide an income to the British Government and are not dependant on the British Government to capital. (Although this would be true if Argentina backed down and we did not have to have a large defence force based there). The Falklands also provide Britain with claimed territory on the South Pole which allows British scientists a route to the South Pole for experiments.

    Otherwise, there is not much to fight over for in the Falklands apart from the stopping Argentina claiming what is wrongfully there's and not providing a precedent for other territories (Gibraltar) where the sovereignty is contested.
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    Look im sorry, i didnt realise it would offend you this much, and yes i will keep my opinions to myself, i dont mean to offend anyone
    Just wondering what regiment your are joining and how you feel about the army cuts.
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    (Original post by Yung Mon£y)
    Soldiers put their life on the line for the security of the country.
    This is a tenous point.

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Updated: July 13, 2012
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