The Student Room Group

C3 - How do I solve this equation?

Scroll to see replies

Reply 20
Also, my apologies to raheem - this method does work - for the given question and given conditions (i.e. x>=2) - although i personally wouldn`t use it - that`s just my preference.
Reply 21
Original post by raheem94
I know the answer is not a lucky coincidence, i know my method is correct according to me, but Hasufel disagrees, so i feel a better mathematician should explain him.


He is right, look at the graphs.
Guys, relax! I got this!

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt+x+%3D+x%5E2+-+4x+%2B+2

Unfortunately Raheem's solution is incorrect.
Reply 23
Original post by Micky76
He is right, look at the graphs.


Can you explain how i am wrong?
Reply 24
Original post by Astronomical
Guys, relax! I got this!

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt+x+%3D+x%5E2+-+4x+%2B+2

Unfortunately Raheem's solution is incorrect.


- yours = same as britmillers = correct
Reply 25
Raheem's correct, because a function will only intersect with it's inverse on the line y = f(x).
Reply 26
Original post by Astronomical
Guys, relax! I got this!

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt+x+%3D+x%5E2+-+4x+%2B+2

Unfortunately Raheem's solution is incorrect.


How am i wrong according to the graph?

The other solution isn't correct, you need to take the domain of x>2, otherwise the inverse doesn't exists.
Reply 27
Original post by raheem94
Can you explain how i am wrong?


You have found the points of intersection of the lines y=(x-2)^2 and y=x. The question asks you to find the value of x when the function equals the inverse function. Therefore it asks to find the points of intersection of lines y=(x-2)^2 and y=2+x^0.5. The graphs that were posted demonstrate this.
Reply 28
Original post by Hasufel
- yours = same as britmillers = correct


How?
Reply 29
Original post by Arva
Raheem's correct, because a function will only intersect with it's inverse on the line y = f(x).


That is not true, look at the graphs that hasufel attached.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 30
Original post by Micky76
Anyways, found all the solutions but they are all < 2 therefore making x = 4 the only valid solution. The only problem with the solutions < 2 is that you have to use the negative square root for them to be true when replaced into the function. So essentially, does the question only expect me to find one solution by trial and error which is simply 4?



if you use the Newton-Raphson method with the original equations, the only valid real root for conditions is x=4

there are 3 other roots
Reply 31
Original post by raheem94
How?


you are correct - for the given restrictions on the domain - not otherwise
Original post by raheem94
How am i wrong according to the graph?

The other solution isn't correct, you need to take the domain of x>2, otherwise the inverse doesn't exists.


Indeed, my apologies.

Having given Raheems method more thought, it is obviously correct.

The inverse of a function is the reflection of a function in the line y=x, as Raheem said. Therefore when the two are equal, they must both lie on y=x, so they are invariant to an inversion in the line y=x (as if they weren't then they wouldn't be equal).

Therefore you can set either the function, or indeed, it's inverse equal to x.

That is:

f1(x)=xx=x2x25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f^{-1}(x) = x \Rightarrow \sqrt{x} = x-2 \Rightarrow x^2 -5x +4 =0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0 [br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

or

f(x)=x(x2)2=xx25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f(x) = x \Rightarrow (x-2)^2 = x \Rightarrow x^2 - 5x +4 = 0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0[br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

As x2x \geq 2 for f(x) then the only valid solution is x=4.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 33
Original post by Astronomical
Indeed, my apologies.

Having given Raheems method more thought, it is obviously correct.

The inverse of a function is the reflection of a function in the line y=x, as Raheem said. Therefore when the two are equal, they must both lie on y=x, so they are invariant to an inversion in the line y=x (as if they weren't then they wouldn't be equal).

Therefore you can set either the function, or indeed, it's inverse equal to x.

That is:

f1(x)=xx=x2x25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0x1,2=1,4f^{-1}(x) = x \Rightarrow \sqrt{x} = x-2 \Rightarrow x^2 -5x +4 =0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0 \Rightarrow x_{1,2}=1,4

or

f(x)=x(x2)2=xx25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0x1,2=1,4f(x) = x \Rightarrow (x-2)^2 = x \Rightarrow x^2 - 5x +4 = 0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0 \Rightarrow x_{1,2}=1,4

As x2x \geq 2 for f(x) then the only valid solution is x=4.



no problem.

I was trying to say the same thing, but i am not good at functions, hence i was hesitating from explaining it because i know i can't explain this concept very well.

Astronomical, thanks for explaining it.
Original post by Astronomical
Indeed, my apologies.

Having given Raheems method more thought, it is obviously correct.

The inverse of a function is the reflection of a function in the line y=x, as Raheem said. Therefore when the two are equal, they must both lie on y=x, so they are invariant to an inversion in the line y=x (as if they weren't then they wouldn't be equal).

Therefore you can set either the function, or indeed, it's inverse equal to x.

That is:

f1(x)=xx=x2x25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f^{-1}(x) = x \Rightarrow \sqrt{x} = x-2 \Rightarrow x^2 -5x +4 =0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0 [br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

or

f(x)=x(x2)2=xx25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f(x) = x \Rightarrow (x-2)^2 = x \Rightarrow x^2 - 5x +4 = 0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0[br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

As x2x \geq 2 for f(x) then the only valid solution is x=4.


Could you explain why it lies on the reflection of y = x, I don't really understand.
Reply 35
Original post by Hasufel
you are correct - for the given restrictions on the domain - not otherwise


If we don't put the restrictions on the domain, then it f(x) won't have an inverse.
Reply 36
As previously stated by me, i agree with raheem for the given conditions - but not for where one equation equals the other - you can see from his reasoning and my graph, that indeed the inverse function does not exist below x=2.

Apologies raheem - i need a sugar boost!!!
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 37
Original post by Brit_Miller
Could you explain why it lies on the reflection of y = x, I don't really understand.


I will recommend you to have a look at some graphs of such functions and you will probably get it.
Original post by Astronomical
Indeed, my apologies.

Having given Raheems method more thought, it is obviously correct.

The inverse of a function is the reflection of a function in the line y=x, as Raheem said. Therefore when the two are equal, they must both lie on y=x, so they are invariant to an inversion in the line y=x (as if they weren't then they wouldn't be equal).

Therefore you can set either the function, or indeed, it's inverse equal to x.

That is:

f1(x)=xx=x2x25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f^{-1}(x) = x \Rightarrow \sqrt{x} = x-2 \Rightarrow x^2 -5x +4 =0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0 [br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

or

f(x)=x(x2)2=xx25x+4=0(x1)(x4)=0[br]x1,2=1,4f(x) = x \Rightarrow (x-2)^2 = x \Rightarrow x^2 - 5x +4 = 0 \Rightarrow (x-1)(x-4) = 0[br]\therefore x_{1,2}=1,4

As x2x \geq 2 for f(x) then the only valid solution is x=4.


Never mind, I see it now, the other two "solutions" are incorrect since they intersect with incorrect domains (and ranges) i.e. the "negative" part of the original intersects with the positive parts of the inverse and vice versa which aren't correct
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 39
Original post by Hasufel
you are correct - for the given restrictions on the domain - not otherwise


Original post by Arva
Raheem's correct, because a function will only intersect with it's inverse on the line y = f(x).


Original post by Micky76
That is not true, look at the graphs that hasufel attached.


Arva is right. f(x) and f^-1(x) intersect on the line y=x. So when f(x) is equal to f^-1(x) they are both equal to the line y=x.

EDIT: Never mind :tongue: already been explained by Astronomical in a much better way.
(edited 11 years ago)

Quick Reply

Latest