[Greatest I am]

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/je...pe-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4H...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott1...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I asked a well-informed Jewish friend to comment before I posted this and this is what he had to say.

Modern Jews and ancient Jews for one. I suppose you are concerned about modern Jewish opinion. Yes, some modern Jews are concerned that Christian Right support isn't for the best, that there is a hidden agenda to benefit Christian Right at the expense of Jews. Other modern Jews (particularly Israeli Right) don't care if there is a hidden agenda or not, they are happy to take anyone's support. These same cynical guys gave and took support from White S African racists (prior to Mandela liberation) and supported the White S African nuclear weapons program. Such people are typically atheist Israeli Jews BTW. Religious Jews generally distrust any Christians bearing gifts (they are Greeks of a sort anyway). Atheists Jews aren't particular, they will take support from anyone (see their behavior in the early Soviet Union). Modern Israel was founded by atheist socialist Jews (the Bund). Religious Jews prior to 1948 and some even prior to 1967 did not believe that Israel should be re-established, without the Messiah. Some religious Jews still believe this (Naturei Karta) and these Jews have cordial relations with Hamas. Such Jews of course would be anathema to the Christian Right. The Christian Right doesn't mind atheist Jews, because they believe all Jews atheist or not will be damned by G-d. Some of the Christian Right also believe that the Jews are not real Jews, only Gentiles are Jews (at least some are seen as such, such as the British Royal Family ... see Anglo-American Israelitism). Many Gentiles believe that modern Jews are of impure "race" anyway, or are even nephelim (angelic spawned demons). A good book on the death of Jesus (at least in literature if not in fact) is "Who Killed Jesus?" by John Dominic Crossan.

Actually I would say that to hate anyone, is to hate G-d ... so some of the verses of the Bible are clearly not inspired, because hate is talked about positively at times. It is possible that some verses are meant ironically. The other thing your scheme implies is that of Pauline predetermination. Paul clearly went beyond predestination to predetermination. He didn't believe in free will, and pointedly talked about his lack of free will, and resulting lack of responsibility, in the beginning of the Epistle to the Romans. In no way did Jesus ever talk in those terms, but then Paul wasn't a follower of the fictional synoptic Jesus (aka a historical Jesus), but of a gnostic angelic figure (vision on the road to Damascus) more like the Johannine Jesus. I don't believe the idea of a realistic Jesus even occurred to anyone until after the destruction of Jerusalem, which was after Paul's death. The realistic synoptic Jesus was turned into the historical Jesus by Christian argumentation. The actual Johannine gospel came last, but its ideas were first, having been written in reaction to the synoptic Jesus, who was written in reaction to the Gnostic Jesus aka Avalokiteshvara and the Gnostic Virgin Mary (Prajnaparamita).

There are lots of reasons for Christians to hate Jews and vice versa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13855238

But I don't think it has ever been legitimate, that is ... it is an expression of sin not virtue. Christians and Muslims should especially value Jewish people, but they are violent, immoral, jealous, stupid (well that is the Jewish stereotype).

Shalom

[AverageExcellence]

Well you can simplify it a lot more than that. If your christian then you worship a jew. How can you hate the wider jewish community when Jesus himself was a jew?

[Greatest I am]

(Original post by AverageExcellence)
Well you can simplify it a lot more than that. If your christian then you worship a jew. How can you hate the wider jewish community when Jesus himself was a jew?

KIS is always good.
Keep It Simple.

The Jews asked that very question of the Christians that persecuted them in the early days.

Regards
DL

[2ndClass]

Good grief, do you just sit and do this sh*t all day?!

You're more zealous than the Salem witch burners for God's sake (am I allowed to say that? )

[Greatest I am]

(Original post by 2ndClass)
Good grief, do you just sit and do this sh*t all day?!

You're more zealous than the Salem witch burners for God's sake (am I allowed to say that? )

Thanks for not speaking to the issue.

Regards
DL

[.eXe]

Who is this thread intended at exactly?

Jew haters?

Do you honestly expect a few of them to identify themselves and debate with you?

What an utterly useless topic.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by AverageExcellence)
Well you can simplify it a lot more than that. If your christian then you worship a jew. How can you hate the wider jewish community when Jesus himself was a jew?

Very good point

[Architecture-er]

How about simplifying it to the point of 'love your neighbour'?

I really think this thread was thought up before a really long drive home, at which point the OP sat down at his computer and though "bugger, what was it I was supposed to be saying?"

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Greatest I am)
KIS is always good.
Keep It Simple.

The Jews asked that very question of the Christians that persecuted them in the early days.

Regards
DL

Hello Greatest I am,

The horrible tragedies of Christians persecuting Jewish people (examples being the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the inexcusable silence of many Christians during the Holocaust), as well as the issues of slavery and killing people who are different than one (like in the USA of Christians killing Native Americans) are to me the greatest tragedies in history.

In spite of all the horrible harm done by many, there have thankfully been some Christians through the generations who stood up to help people who were being persecuted by other Christians. Corrie ten Boom and her family were people who rescued Jewish people and were punished by the Nazis for doing so. In the issue of slavery, some Quakers and other Christians led the fight in making slavery illegal.

Back to the topic, I think one of the reasons that "Christians" have persecuted other people, including Jewish people, is the lack of understanding about the history of Jesus, about why Jesus came, and how the prophecies/promises that God gave to the children of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob (Israel) are fulfilled in Jesus. Sadly, some Christians, since the time Rome destroyed Jerusalem, wondered away from the foundation of Christian faith, which is the idea that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

Acts 2 and 3, as well as Acts 10, show this fact very well. Sadly, many Christian leaders after Jerusalem was destroyed did not continue to teach this.

Another reason why I think "Christians" have persecuted other people, including Jewish people, is because for awhile, the teachings of Jesus including loving one's enemies, was not taught. I wonder why?

What do you think?

Peace and God bless you

[Greatest I am]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello Greatest I am,

The horrible tragedies of Christians persecuting Jewish people (examples being the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the inexcusable silence of many Christians during the Holocaust), as well as the issues of slavery and killing people who are different than one (like in the USA of Christians killing Native Americans) are to me the greatest tragedies in history.

In spite of all the horrible harm done by many, there have thankfully been some Christians through the generations who stood up to help people who were being persecuted by other Christians. Corrie ten Boom and her family were people who rescued Jewish people and were punished by the Nazis for doing so. In the issue of slavery, some Quakers and other Christians led the fight in making slavery illegal.

Back to the topic, I think one of the reasons that "Christians" have persecuted other people, including Jewish people, is the lack of understanding about the history of Jesus, about why Jesus came, and how the prophecies/promises that God gave to the children of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob (Israel) are fulfilled in Jesus. Sadly, some Christians, since the time Rome destroyed Jerusalem, wondered away from the foundation of Christian faith, which is the idea that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

Acts 2 and 3, as well as Acts 10, show this fact very well. Sadly, many Christian leaders after Jerusalem was destroyed did not continue to teach this.

Another reason why I think "Christians" have persecuted other people, including Jewish people, is because for awhile, the teachings of Jesus including loving one's enemies, was not taught. I wonder why?

What do you think?

Peace and God bless you

I think it was just plain old tribalism and consolidation of power by the Church.
When Constantine bought it, the first thing they did was kill off the Gnostics and others who would not kowtow to the enforced and approved scriptures ---- and tried to burn all non-approved gospels. They failed but Hitler did the same thing to solidify his power.

That is also why Constantine forced the church to accept the foolish Trinity concept.

This following shows his logic for going Christian. Sort of Christian that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD0eSqFJ7J4