[MagicNMedicine]

I would like to make it clear that I will vote Conservative.....when the time is right

[FDR]

(Original post by Norton1)
It's amazing how politicians will argue quite seriously that the mob are sage and sensible enough to select them to work on their behalf, but too stupid and lumpen to be let loose on an issue that many of them feel extremely strongly about.

I think that's exactly the problem; people feel far too strongly about the EU that their decision will not be based on reason, but rather on emotion. I mean, the average Briton will likely read a newspaper with an anti-EU slant (the average brit likely reads the Sun, Daily Mail or Mirror), will likely believe commonly thrown around stories that have statistically been proven wrong, or at the least, not been proven to be correct (such as 'Immigrants steal our jobs', and 'Immigrants push down wages for lower skilled workers' -Oxford's migration observatory's research concludes that EU immigration has negligible impact on unemployment amongst UK native workers, and research by the migration observatory concludes that the correlation between low skilled wages and immigration is sketchy at best), and therefore, many will be voting based on such untrue fallacies, as well as a general hostility towards foreigners.

I suppose the conclusion to be drawn - for the subsidised fuel and free public transport at least - is that it's a matter of personal taste. It's a little like the free school dinners for all debate; there's undoubtedly money to do it but should we spend it on that?

I accept your conclusion, but the point I was attempting to make was that people would, for example, vote not to pay taxes on the premise that they now have more money, without thinking of the implications on public services etc. You are right, it is a matter of personal taste, but regarding the EU, it shouldn't be - such a huge decision that will likely impact millions of lives, geopolitics and trade shouldn't be a matter of taste.

[billydisco]

Can anyone in this thread who wants to stay in the EU please tell me:

You keep saying we will lose out- how will we? If we trade within the EFTA then we get to trade andwe dont have to take all the crap from Brussels continuously....

[FDR]

(Original post by Yoko Ono)
The reason we don't have referendums on whether to pay taxes is because there isn't a groundswell of discontent over them, whereas there is with the EU. We should have a referendum, and the yes and no campaigns should be responsible for educating the public about the EU and helping them to make an informed choice.

As I said in another post, the average Briton likely reads a newspaper with an anti EU slant, and believes many of the stories that they print despite these not being true. Even are politicians are bending the truth as it were, with Milliband recently giving a talk near where I live about how Labour's 2004 immigration policy was a mistake, and yet most of his points to support his conclusion were just outright wrong (you can see why here http://notthetreasuryview.blogspot.c...-for.html#more )

If we have a referendum, people are going to make a decision based on information that is incorrect, and will be mostly coming from the vociferous anti EU lobby. Yes, you could argue that the pro EU camp should make the case for remaining in the EU, but I think given over ten years of long anti EU rhetoric, many people have already made up their minds.

[Snagprophet]

What makes me laugh is that it's obvious that there won't be a referendum but Cameron will keep promising one to keep winning until no-one believes him, in which Labour will reuse the old trick and win an election.

[Rakas21]

I fail to see why this is major news, Cameron has said that we may have a referendum at an undisclosed time (next term) which we all knew was more than likely anyway.

I would support a referendum next term and will vote to remain in the European Union.

As imperfect as it currently is i would rather have a say in what the dominant political body in the region will do than get a free trade agreement, still have to accept a large percentage of legislation and have no say. I am also not adverse to future integration.

[wibletg]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
When the time is right. About 1993 by my count, when it ceased to be a free trade area and became a political union.

Cameron won't commit to a referendum and even if Milliband did, I imagine that pledge would be worth just as much as his party's 2005 manifesto commitment to a referendum.

Unless they set a date, I'll be voting UKIP.

I agree.

Miliband is just trying to wind up the Tories by panicking them over Europe, Cameron is trying to do damage control.

[wildrover]

Europe needs us more than we need them, they will still trade with us.

[Templar49]

(Original post by wildrover)
Europe needs us more than we need them, they will still trade with us.

See, people keep saying this, but there are other countries in the world they can trade with. People seem to think that the rest of the world actually care about us enough to go out of their way to continue trade with us if we leave the EU and single market; they certainly won't trade with us to anywhere near the same extent.

[tomcol23]

I'm all for a referendum and I believe that the UK should be outside the EU.

But week in week out politicians are always debating our relationship with the EU and even on the politics forum on the student room website there is a thread about the UK's relationship with the EU.

As soon as a government gives the british people a referendum we can have this EU debate over and done with. But to make it clear, neither Cameron, Milliband and certainly Clegg don't have the balls to give us a referendum. So unfortunately it will be a long time until the british people can finally get a vote on Europe.

[LittleBunny]

The problem with a referendum over EU membership is that the outcome will likely depend more on which side of the campaign has the most money than on the relative pros and cons of being a member state. Consider the AV campaign. Though I would argue the Alternative Vote is indisputably a more democratic option than FPP, thanks to donations from wealthy backers of the No campaign (Lord Salisbury, Lord Wolfson etc.) there was 60% more cash to splurge on marketing a stay with the existing electoral system. As such, the No campaign was backed by around 68% of voters. I can only see something similar happening with a referendum over EU membership.

In an ideal world, it would be nice to see both sides of the campaign using similar marketing budgets, though this is of course naive. And issues of who has the most memorable poster/likable figurehead would still play a deciding factor.