[Manitude]

(Original post by kka25)
What year are you in currently?

Second of four. When it comes to fourth year then I'll be specialising in a research area of physics which most lecturers will not know about, however my supervisor is quite likely to be a renowned expert in that field considering the quality of the research here. That said, the lecturers here will still have a much more in depth knowledge about a wider range of topics than most phd students.

[Muscovite]

(Original post by chefdave)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for useful education. But I'm concerned that our once world renowned education system has been reduced to a conveyor belt of debt-financed essay/exam work for the financial benefit of greedy uni lectures and landlords; who rely on student indebtedness for their 6 figure wage packets and burgeoing property empires. While they reap the financial rewards students are then thrown into a dysfunctional contracting economy that depends on fake money, offshoring, and the importation of cheap migrant labour.

How on earth can we justify charging students £9k p/a in tuition fees when there's a wealth of information available FOR FREE at your fingertips on the wide wide web? It doesn't add up. Universities have priced themselves out of the market.

interesting points but in no way are university lectureres culpable - they certianly do not receive these 'six figure sums; you speak of

[kka25]

(Original post by Manitude)
Second of four. When it comes to fourth year then I'll be specialising in a research area of physics which most lecturers will not know about, however my supervisor is quite likely to be a renowned expert in that field considering the quality of the research here. That said, the lecturers here will still have a much more in depth knowledge about a wider range of topics than most phd students.

I don't think you understand the nature of research. By the time those PhD students reach 2-3rd year, they'd know more than their supervisors; that's the whole point of PhDs. To be an expert in a field.

When I did my UG research project, I know some parts of the research more than my supervisor; how come? well, that's the nature of research - you're doing the research, not the supervisor. So it's not surprising you'd know more than them on that particular research work.

[vedderfan94]

You think I don't know that, OP?

[chefdave]

(Original post by Muscovite)
interesting points but in no way are university lectureres culpable - they certianly do not receive these 'six figure sums; you speak of

Uni lecturers are complicit in perpetuating a corrupt regime. Do they want to see an end to students wasting their time and money with pointless courses on business administration? Of course not! Their livelihood depends on it. There may be a minority of disciplines that require a degree level education but as prices have shot up while the overall academic content has suffered the cost/benefit analysis of a uni education in many cases no longer adds up.

[kka25]

(Original post by Norton1)
I think that - presumably like KKA25 - I've misread it. Apologies.

You didn't misread anything - she never went to a 'toilet', yet she wants to have a say about it.

EDIT:
So basically, she heard how lovely the toilet is, most of what she heard (where? we don't know...) would indicate how lovely the toilet is and from there she concluded the toilet is just lovely, and starts to passionately tell others how lovely the toilet is. But once she entered the toilet, then she would know how dirty it is and learns how to not give baseless arguements and mislead people.

Removed 'toilet' with Uni/Uni Education.

[RyanT]

(Original post by Design_Me_A_Tom)
I read this theory of debt enslavement, where the goverment tries to get as many people into debt as possible so they have less freedom and are easier to control by the government. I'm not saying I believe it, but its interesting to think about.

Debt enslavement only works if you have assets to lose, otherwise you can just shrug your shoulders and not pay back. Which brings in the danger of having a lot of indebted young people unable to afford the main asset used as social control due to spiraling house prices.

Personally I'm warming to the idea of wracking up big debts for education, going bankrupt and then moving abroad. Screw them back as hard as they're screwing you. Never forget that this current generation has taken freebies off their parents and then retracted their commitments to their children, whilst awarding themselves increasingly higher pensions and indirect subsidies (free bus passes, winter fuel allowance for millionaires, pensions etc)

[Manitude]

(Original post by kka25)
I don't think you understand the nature of research. By the time those PhD students reach 2-3rd year, they'd know more than their supervisors; that's the whole point of PhDs. To be an expert in a field.

When I did my UG research project, I know some parts of the research more than my supervisor; how come? well, that's the nature of research - you're doing the research, not the supervisor. So it's not surprising you'd know more than them on that particular research work.

I see where you're coming from, but knowing about a single specialised area better than an expert in the entire field is not justification to say you know more than them. I know quite a bit about playing blues guitar and most lecturers in my department don't, yet I would never claim to know more than any of them.

[kka25]

(Original post by Manitude)
I see where you're coming from, but knowing about a single specialised area better than an expert in the entire field is not justification to say you know more than them. I know quite a bit about playing blues guitar and most lecturers in my department don't, yet I would never claim to know more than any of them.

I didn't say we know more than them on all parts of the knowledge spectrum, even if it's in a single specialized area; my original post was;

LOL. Sometimes these researchers know less than we do

I think that was a clear indication of not all the time they know more than we do.

And if you would like to argue about my other replies, well, I didn't give any indication that we or they know better than each other in its entirety;

I don't think you understand the nature of research. By the time those PhD students reach 2-3rd year, they'd know more than their supervisors; that's the whole point of PhDs. To be an expert in a field.

When I did my UG research project, I know some parts of the research more than my supervisor; how come? well, that's the nature of research - you're doing the research, not the supervisor. So it's not surprising you'd know more than them on that particular research work.

There's no indication above as I've highlighted. Yes, it is true that the PhD students will know more than the supervisor(s) after the 3-4 year training - it's your own original contribution to knowledge, you've discovered it, you know the actual thought process on how to find it; it's not your supervisors.

Also, what do you mean 'an expert in the entire field'?; no such thing! My supervisor or supervisors have worked in Image; Signals; etc but I would never in my wildest dream think them as an expert in the entire field! They 'work' in the field, and to identify their actual work, you'd need to refer to their thesis. Then you'd know their actual specialization.

[Integral]

(Original post by kka25)
You didn't misread anything - she never went to a 'toilet', yet she wants to have a say about it.

EDIT:
So basically, she heard how lovely the toilet is, most of what she heard (where? we don't know...) would indicate how lovely the toilet is and from there she concluded the toilet is just lovely, and starts to passionately tell others how lovely the toilet is. But once she entered the toilet, then she would know how dirty it is and learns how to not give baseless arguements and mislead people.

Removed 'toilet' with Uni/Uni Education.

The funny thing about this is that I didn't objectively make statements. I asked a question. Isn't it quite ironic? You're taking the high ground becaue you have been to unversity, but can't read properly

[kka25]

(Original post by Integral)
The funny thing about this is that I didn't objectively make statements. I asked a question. Isn't it quite ironic? You're taking the high ground becaue you have been to unversity, but can't read properly

Someone with some experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Then why don't buy it?
Someone else with some experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Then why complain?
Others with experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Surely if someone else has done it, there's no problem?

A similar situation (A father talking to another father about a discussion):

Father: bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend: bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend; bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend; bla bla bla
You:

You see how naive you look now?

The ironic thing here, some of the other posters are not even bothering to reply to you; I should follow the same way.

[Integral]

(Original post by kka25)
Someone with some experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Then why don't buy it?
Someone else with some experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Then why complain?
Others with experienced: bla bla bla bla
You: Surely if someone else has done it, there's no problem?

A similar situation (A father talking to another father about a discussion):

Father: bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend: bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend; bla bla bla
You: Why daddy why daddy why daddy?
<ignored>
Father's friend; bla bla bla
You:

You see how naive you look now?

The ironic thing here, some of the other posters are not even bothering to reply to you; I should follow the same way.

He said university is pointless at 9k a year considering the alternatives, then I asked why didn't they take the alternatives...

It does not take a PhD student to follow the logic in that.

As for your last sentence, I'm going to assume you can't reply properly (as displayed in this post), so won't at all.

[AstroZombie1]

Fixed.

[blueray]

(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Exactly especially when you have things like the Khan academy, itutor and so on. Even the videos Yale puts on youtube are class!

Not to mention MIT

[Design_Me_A_Tom]

(Original post by RyanT)
Debt enslavement only works if you have assets to lose, otherwise you can just shrug your shoulders and not pay back. Which brings in the danger of having a lot of indebted young people unable to afford the main asset used as social control due to spiraling house prices.

Personally I'm warming to the idea of wracking up big debts for education, going bankrupt and then moving abroad. Screw them back as hard as they're screwing you. Never forget that this current generation has taken freebies off their parents and then retracted their commitments to their children, whilst awarding themselves increasingly higher pensions and indirect subsidies (free bus passes, winter fuel allowance for millionaires, pensions etc)

I've considered the idea of gettin my degree then relocating abroad and leabing the debt behind, however you would expect the government to be able to still collect your student loan repayments off of you, they can't be that incompetant can they?

[Norton1]

(Original post by Design_Me_A_Tom)
I've considered the idea of gettin my degree then relocating abroad and leabing the debt behind, however you would expect the government to be able to still collect your student loan repayments off of you, they can't be that incompetant can they?

Do so by all means. But you can never - and I mean never - come back.

Also, the bankruptcy idea doesn't work AFAIK:

Question: If I am made bankrupt, will I still have to repay my student loan?
Answer: Yes. Since 1 September 2004 all outstanding student loans cannot be claimed in bankruptcy. They remain the responsibility of the (former) student to repay within the terms of the loan arrangement.
If you were made bankrupt before 1 September 2004 you may still have to repay your student loan. Clarification should be requested from the Official Receiver who is dealing with your affairs.

[Design_Me_A_Tom]

(Original post by Norton1)
Do so by all means. But you can never - and I mean never - come back.

Also, the bankruptcy idea doesn't work AFAIK:

Why can I never come back? Does that also count for holidays in the UK and visiting relatives? Is that because when you check back into the country they will see on your record that your wanted for avoiding loan repayments?

[Clip]

(Original post by Design_Me_A_Tom)
I've considered the idea of gettin my degree then relocating abroad and leabing the debt behind, however you would expect the government to be able to still collect your student loan repayments off of you, they can't be that incompetant can they?

Have you considered that the government might be calculating that default on your student loan is a price well worth paying to get rid of you out of the country forever?

[Norton1]

(Original post by Design_Me_A_Tom)
Why can I never come back? Does that also count for holidays in the UK and visiting relatives? Is that because when you check back into the country they will see on your record that your wanted for avoiding loan repayments?

Your student loan is linked with your NI number, so you'd never be able to work. No idea if they'd have a report out on your passport. Would I put it beyond them? Probably not.

[Design_Me_A_Tom]

(Original post by Clip)
Have you considered that the government might be calculating that default on your student loan is a price well worth paying to get rid of you out of the country forever?

Cynical, especially since we have a loose immigration system for others to enter the UK.