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2:2.

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To be honest, it sounds more like your degree is the problem, rather than your grade. A drama degree isn't really the most desirable qualification when you're recruiting for marketing roles, I'd imagine..
Sorry to sound blank, but hat do 2:2 and 2:1 mean?
Reply 42
This should do the job (pun intended)
I got a 2:2 in my MSci, but I got a 2:1 average over the bachelors years. Will I let a lazy company's auto-checker software bar me from graduate schemes because I was competent enough to stay on, defer my cap and gown and try to get a better degree? Hell no!
Reply 44
Original post by cloop
I completely disagree. I know, having spoken to people directly involved with recruitment in competitive industries, that they are focussing more on what else the candidate has to offer. In someone else's words; "anyone can do nothing but work and get a first. If everyone devoted all their time to their studies then a first would be expected. It's those that do a lot more than that who are of interest to us. Ideally, a 2.1 would be our preferred candidate grade because it suggests that there is just more to them than work".

Yeah, a 2.1 isn't a 2.2, but a first without experience isn't worth as much as it would have done in the past.


Fact is it is pretty hard to get a 2.2 these days: the majority of candidates get a 2.1 or above. It is all very well saying that 'if you just work hard and get a first but have nothing else then so what' but that doesn't explain the 2.2. Either you didn't work hard enough or you did so many things that it detracted from the main reason you were at university - to get a good degree - so that is bad judgment. The candidate with the 2.1 is likely to be looked upon more favourably, as will the candidate with a first - especially is they have other things on the CV.

But to the point - a 2.2 is not the end of the world, but it is a disadvantage and you may have to justify it at interview. If you want to explain your personal circumstances then fair enough. Once you get your foot in the door somewhere and gain some experience and expertise then your degree classification will matter less and less: it's getting on the ladder that will be the toughest thing.

Best of luck.
Original post by ThePants999
In my experience, degree classification is a better reflection of how hard you worked than your innate abilities. A first requires graft much more than it requires genius. I wouldn't be too bothered if my kid's teacher had slacked a bit at uni.


Depends massively on the subject. Sciences it's possible to get a first with relatively much less work than an arts subject, if you're very bright.
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(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 47
Original post by Coben
I can assure you that a first in the right course and the right university can get people places, my sister has limited worldly experience however got a 1st in Economics from LSE and is now earning £120,000 a year at the age of 29 working in a hedge fund. Her educational background got her there, it would be naive not to acknowledge this.

No-one should downplay academic achievement, I find it very laughable how everyone I know who got a mediocre grades at university somehow consider teaching, these people never wished to be teachers however they saw it as an 'option' when they had nothing else to do.

It's no surprise the education system is now in pits, with all these idiots who partied through university, gained mediocre grades all turn to teachers training as a last resort, in former generations people actually wanted to teach and make a positive difference, now it is simply a back up or 'option' for the dullards who didn't do well. Got a 2:2 ? Teaching is an option! I'd not want my child to be taught by such people.

A mediocre role in marketing and going to become a teacher as a last resort is not a huge success story for a 2:2 student.


Teaching has always been my plan, yet I don't plan to do it until I'm at least 30 as I never wanted to do it straight after university.

You know nothing of my marketing role, and it isn't mediocre. People that know me can vouch that I have worked extremely hard over the last 4 years, just not in my studies as this wasn't my priority.

I didn't downplay getting a first, I said that people that i've spoken to have. All my best friends and housemates got firsts and I'm so so proud of them. Coincidentally, they also have a social life, so I'm even prouder. They deserve it.

Even if I would have obtained a first, I would still be in the position I am today. I did my degree so that I could communicate with a wider audience, and after having lived in Brazil for a year, and France for longer, you can judge me all you like for my 2.2 but my life is going exactly the way I planned it.
Original post by Christopher1988
Ok I know I posted for comments but this is ridiculous ignorant. The world isn’t divided into 2:1/2:2 candidates, and many teachers out there work hard and that is what we should recognise, not their motives for choosing that line of work.
At graduate entry level, it literally is. At most places the computer will delete all the 2.2 and below CVs before anyone reads them. Of course this doesn't persist in the long term but for the first 1-3 years out of university it really is quite a big deal. If you had a quantitative/engineering degree it may not be as bad, but in your situation I think teaching and non-graduate entry (which is not to say you will remain at that level for your entire career) are the realistic options.

edit:
WarriorInAWig
I got a 2:2 in my MSci, but I got a 2:1 average over the bachelors years.

I know a (very small) number of people this has happened to, and it's an absolutely absurd situation to be in that should not really be possible. With the system as it is it would be better if they considered 2.2 to be a fail mark at MSci and just awarded the bachelors.

---

fwiw, I got a 1st, and I completely agree that the difference between a 59% and a 71% is mostly willingness to grind through a lot of tedious revision. But the world works the way it does. Companies don't care about being absolutely fair to everyone, they just want enough good-enough candidates with the lowest search costs. After your first job, this will come down to experience and interview performance. For graduates, the degree class is one of the few pieces of information they have for everyone, and deleting all the 2.2s and below is simply a cheap way to cut down the number of CVs that need to be read.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by DynamicSyngery

I know a (very small) number of people this has happened to, and it's an absolutely absurd situation to be in that should not really be possible. With the system as it is it would be better if they considered 2.2 to be a fail mark at MSci and just awarded the bachelors.


Many people will neg me but the truth of the matter is that I have a 2:1 equivalent degree with a signed transcript by my university to prove it. I am very happy with my Master's certification but there is no way I'm going to let bachelors 2:1 people have an easy ride when I too also got the same qualification (and tried to better it by staying an extra year). It's just a matter of explaining it to an employer.
Reply 50
Original post by WarriorInAWig
Many people will neg me but the truth of the matter is that I have a 2:1 equivalent degree with a signed transcript by my university to prove it. I am very happy with my Master's certification but there is no way I'm going to let bachelors 2:1 people have an easy ride when I too also got the same qualification (and tried to better it by staying an extra year). It's just a matter of explaining it to an employer.


Whilst it might be a slightly different case, I feel this is echoed in the case when you have those who were working towards a First and somehow end up with a 69/68% and those who end up with a 60/61%. GPA introduction FTW. (This however, is another discussion in itself...)
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by kikkoman
Whilst it might be a slightly different case, I feel this is echoed in the case when you have those who were working towards a First and somehow end up with a 69/68% and those who end up with a 60/61%. GPA introduction FTW. (This however, is another discussion in itself...)


GPA has a lot of other problems, like it being impossible to recover dropping a grade in any course. It rewards extreme consistency over anything else.

The main problem is that we have only 3 actual degree results - Excellent (1st), Mediocre (2.1), and Fail (< 2.1). If we had an honours class system where all four classes were in the current 2.1-1st range, it would allow more distinction and hopefully not have cliff-face drops in degree worth over fine boundaries.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 52
Original post by DynamicSyngery
GPA has a lot of other problems, like it being impossible to recover dropping a grade in any course. It rewards extreme consistency over anything else.


How does it come to a different end result?

You add all the course Grade Points together, divide them and come up with an overall GPA. In America they still have classifications of cum laude etc.You do the same for percentages and classifications.

What am I missing?
Original post by Norton1
How does it come to a different end result?

You add all the course Grade Points together, divide them and come up with an overall GPA. In America they still have classifications of cum laude etc.You do the same for percentages and classifications.

What am I missing?

An extreme case:

1st = >70% in a course == A = 4.0 GPA
2.1 = 60-70% in a course == B = 3.0 GPA

Suppose you have 10 courses, get 69% in 5 and 71% in 5. In the current honours system you get 70% and a first. In the GPA system you get 5As and 5Bs which corresponds to a GPA of ((5*4.0) + (5*3.0)/10) = 3.5 GPA. This corresponds to a mid 2.1.

The American system rewards scraping a first in every class. The British system rewards exceptional performance. Nb, in America itself this isn't considered a problem because their exams are so easy - often entirely multiple choice - that you need >90% to get an A, and there's essentially no scope for scoring above a first to start with. I think both those things would be negative developments.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 54
Original post by DynamicSyngery
The main problem is that we have only 3 actual degree results - Excellent (1st), Mediocre (2.1), and Fail (< 2.1). If we had an honours class system where all four classes were in the current 2.1-1st range, it would allow more distinction and hopefully not have cliff-face drops in degree worth over fine boundaries.


Something like 40% of people get less than a 2:1, would your system not mean all of them failing?

Original post by DynamicSyngery
GPA Explanation


Thank you, that helped a lot.
Original post by Norton1
Something like 40% of people get less than a 2:1, would your system not mean all of them failing?
They'd get a pass degree. A 3rd or a pass in the current system is already a fail for all intents and purposes.
I know people who got 2:2 degrees from modern universities and walked into jobs paying £30K+, with a few having multiple offers as well at that salary range.

As long as there isn't an auto-filter in place that removes the 2:2 applicants, then you're not really any more ****ed than people with 2:1s who have a similar overall quality CV.

So what I'm saying is that if an employer sees a CV with a 2:2 and a CV with a 2:1 and neither have anything in the way of experience, they're both going to get binned anyway.
Original post by Norton1
I would say that it's clearly very important to graduate recruiters as they consistently specify they want at least a 2:1 for graduate schemes. There's a reason the 2:2 is known as the drinkers degree, because as a general rule (and of course on the internet everyone has gigantic mitigating circumstances so I'll take it as read you have them and you don't need to tell me. OP, for example states he has OCD, fair enough I can see that makes things difficult) people who get 2:2's don't work all that hard. It's got to make you think twice about someone who knew that 3rd year was the most important year of their university life and still buggered about.

I suspect that anyone would play down the importance of classification to someone who got a 2:2 or a third. This thing of everyone having the ability to get a first is just nonsense. Absolute rot. The thing about all this is that I actually was constructive, and suggested he aim for programs which don't ask for a 2:1, I'm not saying a 2:2 isn't saveable, I'm saying that it is important. And it is seen as important by the actual people giving out the jobs.


Spot on.
the yearly 2.2 hate on tsr seems to have started.

People do well with 2.2, people do poorly with 1st, just because someone has a great grade doesn't mean they will become millionaires. It is how you use your degree that matters, the skills you have to fit a job, the experience, and your interpersonal skills . These no point sitting on your ass going I don't need any work experience I have a 2.1

people get 2.2 for a load of reasons not just because they are lazy, Tony Blair only had a 2.2. The system has flaws, but for some reason anyone who says that gets the respond of oh well you must of got a 2.2 thats why you are saying it is flawed. Companies only place filters to cut down the number of people applying not because you are special, because going though thousands of applications is not fun so the only way to cut down that field is to use online test and place UCAS and degree class filters.

Get experience as that count for much more

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