[The Marshall]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I can honestly tell you nobody gives a crap or thinks twice about it, I do however know it is a big deal to you Americans.

We're much more concerned with how a small Island is a world-leading country, has had the biggest empire in History and once owned a quarter of the world.

Spain had the biggest Empire in South America,
France had some of the largest Empires

[Historophilia]

(Original post by Psyk)
Considering "Britain" as a state hadn't even existed for a century by that point, I'd say you're wrong

I guess you could say Ireland was part of the "English empire"? That term isn't used very often though. But I think it's fair to say England had dominated Ireland for centuries before that.

Completely accurate point but I was attempting to simplify it down, considering that the OP knows so little about the structure and history of the British Isles I felt that having to explain the difference between Britain and England might be more that I could cope with.

[madders94]

Happy 4th of July to the Americans in this thread

[RyanT]

(Original post by F Ellen)
I'm going slightly OT here, but I always find this somewhat of a shame. Then again, being an island, we do seem to have a long history of being invaded.

Eh, we've been invaded a lot less then nearly all the continental states have.

[Maerzin]

(Original post by The Marshall)
I'm not really happy at the way you're responding to the Lady. This just's give the British a very bad pereception and a great sterotypical view.

You'll find the reason people are reacting to Christianlady the way they are is largely due to her initial implication that the British were to blame for the atrocities against Native Americans and the slave trade while seemingly absolving Americans of most of these things. She only conceded much later on that the Americans shared the blame and even then continued to imply the British were the main culprits.

While I'm not saying either nationality has a fixed negative stereotypical behaviour, if I were to go simply by this thread it represents Americans quite poorly. I think it's because some Americans (like nationalists from any other nation) come across as so nationalistic that no only do they tend to berate other nationalities but hold a persecution complex that everyone else is actually irrationally intolerant of them.

For the record I'm not British.

(Original post by The Marshall)
Spain had the biggest Empire in South America,
France had some of the largest Empires

The British empire was the largest in history with the Mongolian one coming in second place. That is what the poster was stating. In fact it was bigger than the Spanish and French empires combined.

[Mequa]

Britain is not an empire anymore, I don't think contemporary Britons think much of our defeat back in the 1700s.

From my knowledge of history, the British empire was pretty oppressive on the American colonies particularly in terms of taxation, so the revolution which led to the formation of the United States as an independent country seemed to be the right thing. What I admire about the US Founding Fathers was their drawing up of a secular Constitution based on Enlightenment values. The influence of British philosophers such as John Locke on the likes of Thomas Jefferson were profound.

This topic made me think of US-UK relations today. What I'm most concerned about is that it is exceptionally difficult for a Briton to get a Green Card to emigrate to the States. I've written to Obama asking if he could possibly rectify this situation, but I seriously doubt he's read it.

[megan.c]

(Original post by Christianlady)
I wonder why y'all don't learn about the American Revolution? Just curious

Of course it is a part of American history here in the States, because even though it happened a long time ago, Americans today are still extremely proud of fighting for their freedom. It basically helped shape the mentality of Americans in general.

Do you not learn about Gandhi and India in history at school? I LOVE Gandhi and what he did. It is amazing how he basically shamed the British out of controlling India. I wonder if the English colonists could have done that, without fighting?

Yeah the Civil Rights Movement in the USA is awesome!!! I LOVE Martin Luther King Jr.!!!

Because it's not an integral part of British history and we have more to be getting on with.
You seem very anti-British. Not sure if that's how you're trying to come across but it is - you don't need to keep being ashamed of 'the British' for being a bit mean to native Americans and Aborigines, they aren't my ancestors so I'm not going to feel guilty.

And do you learn about the English civil war? Ancient Roman and Greek society? Medieval England? The development of medicine? All these things would have helped shape the modern world, including America, and from what I can gather you barely seem to touch on them.

Most British history programmes concentrate on history in Europe in general, for instance at my school the A Level students did a module on leading up to the French revolution and then another on the development of medicine in the western world and the eastern world.

How much do you learn about Vietnam I wonder? And any other of America's losses?

[Emaemmaemily]

It is the pure fact that Christianlady has said "I have found a lot of interesting things to write to my fellow Americans" in this context that worries me right now. You seem to think that us not really thinking about the 4th of July at all (and, why would we?) to be a sign of us having bad feelings towards the USA. This is untrue, and not the point.
We don't think about it, nor care greatly, because it has nothing to do with us. It's great that they gained independance; if I was alive in those times, I probably would have been one of those who left the corruption of the UK at the time, and may well have been involved. However, it doesn't have anything to do with those of us alive in the UK today. WE weren't defeated, our ancestors were, and the way the empire was run is something that most people in the UK wouldn't stand for now!
There's no reason to celebrate the independence of another country. We have our own national holidays that are relevent to us. It's got nothing to do with mallice or bad feeling, it just has no significance in our lives.

Do you recognise Cuba's independence from the USA on May 20th? Or Liberia on July 26th? Of course not, because while it's a big deal to the people who live there, it has nothing to do with you personally.
Did you know July the 4th is also the independence day for Abkhazia?

[standreams]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Your remark about not " If we were to care properly about the independence days of former colonies then we would have to pick one or two as it would be simply impossible to care fully about them all" I personally find that to be condescending and dreadfully apathetic to people in those "former colonies". I am grateful and glad that said former colonies are no longer under British rule.

So, it is good that I wrote this thread. I have learned a lot about the meanness, apathy, and rudeness about some people from the UK who post on this forum. I have gotten interesting material to write about to fellow Americans concerning what people in the UK today think about concerning the Fourth of July.

Since it bothers you that I bless people, I won't bless you. I will wish you a nice life, and I hope someday you come to the USA and are blessed with the kindness of Americans who aren't as hateful to British people as some people on this forum are to Americans who believe differently than them. It would be interesting if we ever meet.

I trust that you will be marking the Independence Days of the Philippines, Cuba and Liberia from US colonial rule (in the Philippines case, after a particularly brutal war during which thousands of Filipinos were massacred by American soldiers)? I am sure many people in occupied Samoa and Puerto Rico also yearn to be freed from the yoke of American colonial rule.

If not, then you are a hypocrite to expect British people to care about your Independence Day.

And I do hope you are joking if you truly intend to extrapolate the views of a few people on an internet forum aimed at students as being representative of the UK national viewpoint- how absurd!

To answer your question- US Independence Day has no more bearing or relevance on my life than Brazilian Independence, Ukrainian Independence, or Somali Independence. I know my American friends celebrate it and I'm glad they do- but why on Earth would you expect British people to care about, mark, or otherwise even think about the occasion? We are not Americans, and therefore it is of no relevance and only minor passing interest to us. The USA is just one of many countries, and American independence was only a minor event in British history, of far less historical significance than many others. Hence why it is rarely studied.

[nosceteipsummm]

Welp. This sums it up for me.


"Independence did not mean chauvinism and narrow nationalism."
-Said Musa

[megan.c]

At what point does ignorance such as this just turn into racism?

[nosceteipsummm]

(Original post by megan.c)
At what point does ignorance such as this just turn into racism?

I'm pretty sure it has long since passed the line over to xenophobia.

[timeofflight]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Your remark about not " If we were to care properly about the independence days of former colonies then we would have to pick one or two as it would be simply impossible to care fully about them all" I personally find that to be condescending and dreadfully apathetic to people in those "former colonies". I am grateful and glad that said former colonies are no longer under British rule.

So, it is good that I wrote this thread. I have learned a lot about the meanness, apathy, and rudeness about some people from the UK who post on this forum. I have gotten interesting material to write about to fellow Americans concerning what people in the UK today think about concerning the Fourth of July.

Since it bothers you that I bless people, I won't bless you. I will wish you a nice life, and I hope someday you come to the USA and are blessed with the kindness of Americans who aren't as hateful to British people as some people on this forum are to Americans who believe differently than them. It would be interesting if we ever meet.

Can you explain why you find it "condescending and dreadfully apathetic" to not be that interested the 40 odd independence days of other countries from the UK. I, also, am "grateful and glad that said former colonies are no longer under British rule", though you say it with the implication that I am not. I think it would be interesting for you to clarify what you meant by that.

I don't know why you are surprised by the apathy. I really don't know what you expected. I would be really interested to hear what you did expect. I would like to point out to you that you are posting in the student room and if you expected some sort of high brow moral debate then you were looking in the wrong place. The people on here are mainly kids, I am 20.

Interestingly, I have visited the USA many times (aprox. 15) and have traveled fairly widely during this time. I have come across some small minded people, and some really nice ones. A few people judged me as "British" but most people didn't.([I found it no less raciest that the UK.) Of course you will find some racists in the UK, you will anywhere. On this forum however, apart from a few trolls (which TSR has it's fair share of) I don't think you have met any raciest people. Yep, they don't like you and your beliefs, but it is because of your beliefs, not the fact you are american.

[megan.c]

(Original post by nosceteipsummm)
I'm pretty sure it has long since passed the line over to xenophobia.

I want to bake a cake of rainbows and smiles

But seriously, stuff like this makes me sad. Not only the fact that some Americans feel so openly able to criticise the British (there was a really racist episode of family guy lately) but they make their voices heard so much it takes a lot of effort to see past all the crazies at Americans like you who are nothing but the voice of reason.
Then stuff goes back in a full circle with British being all "Ahh 'mericans are all so ignorant and self obsessed" to a bunch of very reasonable and normal Americans.
Is there no end to this madness?!

[SimonRob]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Have you ever studied American history? Just curious. They became "Americans" after declaring independence from England. Funny how that works Before, they were English colonists who were expected to serve England.

Please read the Declaration of Independence, as well as concerning the history of people such as George Washington, the first American president. He was an English colonist who served in the English (not American) army before the American Revolution.

"George Washington, a young lieutenant colonel in the British Army and future president of the United States, leads an attack on French forces at Jumonville Glen on this day in 1754. The battle is later credited with being the opening salvo in the French and Indian War (1754 to 1763). "
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...for-first-time

Please note that when George Washington was serving in the British Army, neither he nor the British Army foreknew he would become the first President of the USA.

Please see http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm and note how the Declaration states "colonies". Who make colonies? Colonists. Where were these (in the USA since 1776) colonists from? England. Who do they call their brethren (those who signed this Declaration of Independence)? the "British brethren"

I'd just like to point out that the British Army came into existence with the Act of Union in 1707, superseding the respective armies of England and Scotland. You get this right later on so please try not to forget the lives of Scots (and other nationalities) lost in conflict for Great Britain and later the United Kingdom.

[Snagprophet]

I don't get why anyone bashes the British Empire about the bad stuff it did so much. It's not like it particularly stood out from any other civilisation.

[Historophilia]

(Original post by Snagprophet)
I don't get why anyone bashes the British Empire about the bad stuff it did so much. It's not like it particularly stood out from any other civilisation.

True to be honest.

While obviously you couldn't say being part of the British Empire was a bed of roses for the most part the British Colonialists weren't too bad.

There's no equivalent to the Herero and Namaqua Genocide in German Namibia for example or the Belgian Congo.

[Snagprophet]

(Original post by Historophilia)
True to be honest.

While obviously you couldn't say being part of the British Empire was a bed of roses for the most part the British Colonialists weren't too bad.

Well there wasn't really a modern standard to compare to, such as hygiene, human rights, even modern medical care.

[AntisthenesDogger]

I think you're too selective about your own history.

That and it should really be called revolutionary day. Not independence.

[Historophilia]

(Original post by Snagprophet)
Well there wasn't really a modern standard to compare to, such as hygiene, human rights, even modern medical care.

Well no you'd compare the British empire to another Empire that was around at about the same time.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here, could you elaborate or rephrase?