NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)
Discussion about medicine applications and medicine.
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NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)I was just wondering what peoples opinions are on the following about the new NHS bursaries for Graduate Medical Courses from 2012/13:
1. The NHS no longer fully funds tuition for years 2 - 4
2. The NHS still fully funds the tuition fees for nursing students
I feel a bit discriminated against compared to nurses who seem to get it all paid for
Plus the loans they expect you to take from the SLC are interested at RPI+3% even, while you study :O -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)Not the point. The point is that there is an unfair scheme in place and they shouldn't really discriminate between anyone and should make it fair.(Original post by anoldbaby)
you can always study nursing if thats so important to you :P
life is about compromises
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)Simple economics; the price to train a doctor is far more than the price of training a nurse. Adding tuition fees onto the list of things to pay for isn't quite up there on the Government's agenda at the moment.(Original post by Funky_Climber)
Not the point. The point is that there is an unfair scheme in place and they shouldn't really discriminate between anyone and should make it fair. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)would I want my studies to be fully funded - yes(Original post by Funky_Climber)
Not the point. The point is that there is an unfair scheme in place and they shouldn't really discriminate between anyone and should make it fair.
do I think that I should be fully funded - yes
do I think it is unfair when I am not fully funded - no
what is fair anyway.... shall we fund all the phd/DPhil studentships too? what about msc? -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)They aren't NHS courses so NO(Original post by anoldbaby)
would I want my studies to be fully funded - yes
do I think that I should be fully funded - yes
do I think it is unfair when I am not fully funded - no
what is fair anyway.... shall we fund all the phd/DPhil studentships too? what about msc? -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)It doesn't matter, you're asking for an extra one or two years funding for medicine compared to nursing which is three years. 36-45k of funding PER PLACE is a lot of money to fund, and as much as I'd love it to be the case that the government would fund us, it's not going to happen.(Original post by Funky_Climber)
They aren't NHS courses so NO
Also, for graduate-entry careers it's often assumed that you've been working prior to applying, and you could have amassed some savings to help you fund yourself through University.
Besides, it's irrelevant -- you can hypothesise all you like but we DO have to pay, so we may as well get on with it! -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)I agree its unfair tbh with the wages Nurse are now earning id like to see them pay just like the rest of us. I'm a biomedical scientist so start on the same wages as a nurse with similar progression, I had to fund all my degree why don't nurses??
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)I don't want more funding. I'd expect 3 years tuition covered for all NHS students:(Original post by MattKneale)
It doesn't matter, you're asking for an extra one or two years funding for medicine compared to nursing which is three years. 36-45k of funding PER PLACE is a lot of money to fund, and as much as I'd love it to be the case that the government would fund us, it's not going to happen.
Also, for graduate-entry careers it's often assumed that you've been working prior to applying, and you could have amassed some savings to help you fund yourself through University.
Besides, it's irrelevant -- you can hypothesise all you like but we DO have to pay, so we may as well get on with it!
a 4 year medic would pay one year tuition and have 3 paid for
a 3 year nurse would have 3 paid for
Also, a graduate student that starts in 2012/13 will combine with 3rd years on the 5 year course during the 2nd year of their graduate course. Therefore, it makes no sense that one part of the class are paying 1/3 the fees of some. You can't exactly say that the level of the course is better than it was during the 3000 fees since people are paying the same. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)I dont even mind it not being covered aslong as we can get a fee loan for it. Paying it back once were earning only seems fair tbh(Original post by Funky_Climber)
I don't want more funding. I'd expect 3 years tuition covered for all NHS students:
a 4 year medic would pay one year tuition and have 3 paid for
a 3 year nurse would have 3 paid for
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)At present on the 4-yr accelerated medicine programmes (i.e. for grads starting Sept-2012) the NHS bursary funds the first £3,465 of your tuition fees in years 2-4 and SFE provides the balance by means of a tuition fee loan. On top of this in years 2-4 you will receive the NHS bursary (as the other health students do) and a reduced rate maintenance loan.(Original post by LSESUguy)
I'm confused. Does the NHS bursary no longer fund any of years 2-4 for graduate students?
In year 1 you self-fund the £3,465 and get a tuition fee loan for the remainder. On top of that you get a maintenance loan (but no grant) from SFE. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)(Original post by Funky_Climber)
I was just wondering what peoples opinions are on the following about the new NHS bursaries for Graduate Medical Courses from 2012/13:
1. The NHS no longer fully funds tuition for years 2 - 4
2. The NHS still fully funds the tuition fees for nursing students
I feel a bit discriminated against compared to nurses who seem to get it all paid for
Plus the loans they expect you to take from the SLC are interested at RPI+3% even, while you study :O
It's a tough one, and I guess that it's perhaps because of the future earnings of doctors. It's not only nurses who don't pay fees....it's student midwives, physios, speech & language therapists and radiographers too. I have to say that I did question it when my daughter did biomed and now has £20k to repay, whilst student nurses get fees paid and NHS bursaries. However, she said she has no problem with it and reckons they deserve it due to the job they do.
Personally, I wonder whether the fact that they don't pay their own fees has perhaps played some part in the very high attrition rate from some institutions.
Oh...by the way, I am a nurse!Last edited by Supportive mum; 05-07-2012 at 18:40. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)Why would the fact that nurses don't pay their fees reduce the number of nurses that train? I would have thought that because nurses don't have to pay for their fees, it would increase the number of people that train to be nurses(Original post by Supportive mum)
It's a tough one, and I guess that it's perhaps because of the future earnings of doctors. It's not only nurses who don't pay fees....it's student midwives, physios, speech & language therapists and radiographers too. I have to say that I did question it when my daughter did biomed and now has £20k to repay, whilst student nurses get fees paid and NHS bursaries. However, she said she has no problem with it and reckons they deserve it due to the job they do.
Personally, I wonder whether the fact that they don't pay their own fees has perhaps played some part in the very high attrition rate from some institutions.
Oh...by the way, I am a nurse!
Wait I know that we get a bursary in years 2-4 to cover part of our tuition fees (£3,465) but I didn't realise we get an extra NHS bursary with our maintenance loan?? That is great if true(Original post by nearlybled2death)
At present on the 4-yr accelerated medicine programmes (i.e. for grads starting Sept-2012) the NHS bursary funds the first £3,465 of your tuition fees in years 2-4 and SFE provides the balance by means of a tuition fee loan. On top of this in years 2-4 you will receive the NHS bursary (as the other health students do) and a reduced rate maintenance loan.
In year 1 you self-fund the £3,465 and get a tuition fee loan for the remainder. On top of that you get a maintenance loan (but no grant) from SFE.
Last edited by groovyangel2008; 05-07-2012 at 19:24. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)That is what I'm saying! A high attrition rate means many drop out before completing their courses, at considerable cost to the NHS. I would suggest that a number of these would not drop out if they were responsible for the fees themselves. It obviously varies between universities, but I think that a certain percentage of unsuitable people enter nursing as it's a way of achieving a degree with a considerably lower personal financial commitment.(Original post by groovyangel2008)
Why would the fact that nurses don't pay their fees reduce the number of nurses that train? I would have thought that because nurses don't have to pay for their fees, it would increase the number of people that train to be nurses -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)Actually, the way it works means that the lower paid won't pay near as much as their debt is and the higher paid will pay much more. It is even more confusing for a graduate going in to the 2012/13 course as they will have a loan on the old scheme and a loan on the new scheme. Will they pay back one and then the other, both at the same time or what?(Original post by blueeyedgal)
It may seem unfair but bear in mind that Nurses wages are nowhere near Doctors. A Doctor isn't going to struggle in a few years time to repay a student loan - a Nurse might. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)If they are funding nurses and they drop out then they should have to repay the money as they aren't going to be working in the NHS.(Original post by Supportive mum)
That is what I'm saying! A high attrition rate means many drop out before completing their courses, at considerable cost to the NHS. I would suggest that a number of these would not drop out if they were responsible for the fees themselves. It obviously varies between universities, but I think that a certain percentage of unsuitable people enter nursing as it's a way of achieving a degree with a considerably lower personal financial commitment.
It would be cheaper to fund 3 years of medical students fees instead of nurses and save the NHS money, fact. Since there are more nurses than doctors. -
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Re: NHS Bursaries (Graduate Medical Students)I certainly think that there could/should be a case for committing people to a certain period of time working in in the NHS, particularly with the new fees. Students on the GEM course are probably some of the most focused out there. (I have 2 nephews who have done this). However, I'm sure there would be some loophole whereby weak uncommitted students could find some way to avoid it. Sadly, many lower ranking institutions don't care. They take on weak students as 'bums on seats' means they keep their jobs, whether they drop out or not.(Original post by Funky_Climber)
If they are funding nurses and they drop out then they should have to repay the money as they aren't going to be working in the NHS.
It would be cheaper to fund 3 years of medical students fees instead of nurses and save the NHS money, fact. Since there are more nurses than doctors. -
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The reason nurses are fully funded was to encourage people into nursing. There was a significant shortage of people undertaking the course leaving the nhs short of nurses and having to bring in overseas nurses to fill vacancies. Funding their studies was introduced as an incentive to get more people into nursing. The average age for a student nurse is 30, with many of them coming into nursing from working low paying jobs such as HCAs or being stay at home parents. It was thought that these people as mature students (not graduates) never had the resources to save up to fund a degree.
Traditionally nurses were taught on the job so to speak, with students forming a high proportion of the work force in the wards and were paid salaries. Then reforms put the student nurses into university and the structure of training changed.
The courses are 45 week, they spend half of this time working full time on the wards as students, following a shift pattern covering nights and weekends. This makes having a part time job difficult, and without the long summer holidays the majority of students get, there is no opportunity to have a summer job and put aside money to cover you while at uni.
I agree with the above poster, there is a high attrition rate, and I'm sure a number of students go into nursing as it is a funded degree, but many drop out when the realities of life as a nurse hits them (usually on care of elderly placement!)
So it might not seem fair to other students about the funding, but if you look into the details further, then hopefully you may understand more!
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