[.eXe]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Ok well the same question can be asked why do most Christians have no problem with getting drunk?

Now you are just being silly.

So you know most Christians eh?

There are mass amounts of Christians just going around drunk eh?

Accidental or otherwise, you're certainly managed to look foolish I'll give you that much. Congrats.

[boba]

(Original post by Architecture-er)
Well God doesn't have a son, you two should check out the Trinity, the idea is that it's just God, but he has three parts to him. Jesus wasn't God's blood son, he was a part of God's psyche that is subordinate to the Father part.

I quite clearly didn't say that he did I simply pointed out that the idea that an all powerful being couldn't have a son if they so chose was stupid and contradictory to the idea of being all powerful.

[Redheaded_Dancer]

Well, for one thing all of the examples that you have given are from the Old Testament and Christians believe that when Jesus died for our sins he made what is said in the Old Testament null and void, thus meaning this is no longer a sin.
Also, it doesn't say that drink is the problem, more that being drunk is.

[kaypc]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Alcohol:

I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

Swine:

Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?

lol, its not Christians disobeying rules. we drink wine as part of the eucharist and God's blood. plus Saint Paul adviced a man to drink alcohol to help with indegestion in the Bible. christians don't tolerate indecent behaviour caused by drinking too much alcohol though. jesus turned water to wine... these are all reasons we are allowed to drink it in moderation.

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by Huz)
I think you're trying to cause trouble with this. Although i agree Christians follow the wrong religion.

Jesus was a prophet, but not the son of God. How can God have a son

God can do whatever the **** he wants. That's how he can have a son.

[Architecture-er]

(Original post by boba)
I quite clearly didn't say that he did I simply pointed out that the idea that an all powerful being couldn't have a son if they so chose was stupid and contradictory to the idea of being all powerful.

I know, I was copying you in for clarity

Also you didn't mention the Trinity, so I assumed it was something you weren't aware of, though what you said wasn't factually incorrect.

[.eXe]

(Original post by kaypc)
lol, its not Christians disobeying rules. we drink wine as part of the eucharist and God's blood. plus Saint Paul adviced a man to drink alcohol to help with indegestion in the Bible. christians don't tolerate indecent behaviour caused by drinking too much alcohol though. jesus turned water to wine... these are all reasons we are allowed to drink it in moderation.

Exactly. OP clearly has an agenda and is just trying to permeate the weak-minded people on TSR with it.

Say something objective to him and the neg brigade emerges quickly.

[Architecture-er]

(Original post by Redheaded_Dancer)
Well, for one thing all of the examples that you have given are from the Old Testament and Christians believe that when Jesus died for our sins he made what is said in the Old Testament null and void, thus meaning this is no longer a sin.
Also, it doesn't say that drink is the problem, more that being drunk is.

Thank God (quite literally! haw haw haw) for that extra vowel

[MMoor18]

For a start the Old testament is the same book as the jewish Torah more or less, hence Jews still adhering to those rules.

Christians believe in Jesus therefore the rules HE laid down are the important ones, not the old testament or ten commandments.

Also this is a christian country so if pushed to answer most people would claim to be be christian, but very few practice or believe. A lot of people don't see the difference between being christened and being a christian.

Personally I have no religious views but tbh if the OP had done the tiniest bit of research they wouldn't of embarrassed themselves......

[LuisSuarez7]

(Original post by .eXe)
So you know most Christians eh?
.

To be fair on TSR you act like you know most Muslims. Swings and roundabouts and all that.....

[Howard]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Alcohol:

I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

Swine:

Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?

Nice bible cherry picking.

[Howard]

(Original post by Huz)
I think you're trying to cause trouble with this. Although i agree Christians follow the wrong religion.

"Oh, my fairy tales are more believeable that yours......

[gm15]

(Original post by Huz)

Jesus was a prophet, but not the son of God. How can God have a son

I'm not religious and find the whole trinity thing bonkers but...
God is meant to be all powerful so surely he can do anything. Older religions are full of gods having kids with mortals

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

[BeanofJelly]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Ok well lets rephrase the question, why do most Christians have no problem with getting drunk?

There's a lot of interpretation to be had in those statements. Let's take them one at a time:

(Original post by AceStacks)
Alcohol:

I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

1. Does getting drunk occassionally make one a "drunkard"?

Being a drunkard sort of means being perpetually or habitually drunk, an alcoholic as it were. Most drinkers, even if they ocassionally binge drink, don't really fit that description.

Secondly, even if someone is an alcoholic - well part of the definition is that you are addicted to alcohol, dependant upon this substance that is ruining your life. People don't choose to be like that, mostly they feel guilty about it but they are trapped by their addiction.


2. Drunkenness may be improper behaviour. But "improper"'s not a very strong word is it?
Some Christians may reasonably feel that as long as their drinking is good-spirited and social then getting drunk occassionally is dandy. After all.. Jesus did (purportedly) once produce 150 gallons of wine at a party where everyone was already drunk (wedding at Cana). He clearly thought there are occassions where a little improperness doesn't go amiss.


3. Well duh. It's common knowledge that drunk people aren't wise! Not being wise isn't the same as being morally wrong. I regard that passage as virtually tongue-in-cheek.


I'd say it's not at all "very clear" that drinking or even drunkness, is a sin. Especially given how apparently fond Jesus was of wine and drinking, whilst all round being a cool/good dude and also basically God himself in a human costume.

(Original post by AceStacks)
Swine:

Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Yeah, and as everyone says again and again.. Shellfish, fabric blends and polyculture crops. These are all "sinful" too.

I feel it's a bit of an elephant in the room that there's some dippy stuff in Leviticus that we're all better off ignoring*. It's like that with any old book that was written by about 50 different people. Some of them are bound to be mad!

*The New Testament as much says so.
*Ever noticed that whenever someone goes on a Bible bash, the quotes are always Leviticus (occassionally Deuteronomy)?


EDIT: You ought to have inferred I'm not a Christian, but even without being one I think your points are rather silly.

[MMoor18]

(Original post by gm15)
I'm not religious and find the whole trinity thing bonkers but...
God is meant to be all powerful so surely he can do anything. Older religions are full of gods having kids with mortals

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

This, all Norse, Greek, Roman and Celtic mythology has multiple gods who have children brothers wives etc. etc. Just because modern religions have simplified their dieties doesn't make one idea better than another. My friend thinks the most likely scenario is that aliens came down and ****ed monkeys....... no less crazy than being made out of a rib or or any other religious idea

[xander93]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Alcohol:

I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

Swine:

Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

I actually was discussing this with a friend recently, it's quite an interesting topic.

Okay firstly you've got to examine context:

Firstly, these are just two examples of certain supposed 'sins'. There is no mention in the Decalogue of 'Thou shall not eat pork/drink liquor', therefore it is arguable that they are minor aspects to Christian faith, and only ultra-orthodox denominations would follow it to a tee. Indeed, the Bible contradicts itself in some places. It is also true that the Old Testament, while still part of the Bible and therefore Christianity as whole, it is generally the New Testament which Christians focus on, which differentiates them from Jews who focus on the Torah, the first five books.

The sources you've cited, therefore, are from different parts of the Bible and can't really pin down any true rules or obligations of Christians.

(Original post by AceStacks)
The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?

This is just narrow minded. I know many people of different faiths who break apparent rules in the religion, yet it does not affect their view of how pious they are.

[M'Ling]

Because if they didn't eat swine or swig wine, then fewer people would join the religion.

More people = more power.

[gm15]

(Original post by MMoor18)
For a start the Old testament is the same book as the jewish Torah more or less, hence Jews still adhering to those rules.

Christians believe in Jesus therefore the rules HE laid down are the important ones, not the old testament or ten commandments.

Also this is a christian country so if pushed to answer most people would claim to be be christian, but very few practice or believe. A lot of people don't see the difference between being christened and being a christian.

Personally I have no religious views but tbh if the OP had done the tiniest bit of research they wouldn't of embarrassed themselves......

How does that work then? God hands down rules which you have to follow then eventually sends down a son to tell you to ignore certain rules yet those rules are still included in the new combo holy book (bible)?!

One reason i'm not religious is I think a god would do a better job of writing a book. For example doing it all in one go and not bringing out a revised edition thousands of years later.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

[NuckingFut]

(Original post by .eXe)
Exactly. OP clearly has an agenda and is just trying to permeate the weak-minded people on TSR with it.

Say something objective to him and the neg brigade emerges quickly.

You mean like this thread you started?

Or this one?

How about this one?

But the ultimate "stupid" prize is reserved for our winner.

[unprinted]

Nearly every person who has a religion picks and chooses which bits they want to believe / follow.

Given the contradictions inherent in all the major religions, the alternative is rather dangerous.