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Why do Christians see no problem in drinking Alcohol and eating Swine?

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by placenta medicae talpae)
    I'm not here to try to tell anyone what they should believe or whatever, but I just thought it might be worth clearing up this common misconception about Christianity.
    Whatever they tell you about 'original sin', it's false.

    "The soul who sins is the one who will die.The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him." (Ezekiel 18:20)

    So on the Judgement Day, we aren't accountable for Adam's or Eve's or our great-grandparents' sins
    thats what i keep saying
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    (Original post by Bonnier)
    God punishes us for our own sins. Adam and Eve were just the first ones to rebel. We are not punished because they disobeyed God. Any of us in their place would have done the same thing.



    God made us in his own image. What is so dirty about him walking with us in his own creation?
    no im sorry we humans can never be an image of the most high...how can you even say that...your a worm mate...god never made us in is image...we are his slaves that is all....

    why does god have to create another then send him to earth and be god at the same time seriosuly so illogical
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    (Original post by AceStacks)
    Alcohol:

    I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

    Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

    Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

    Swine:

    Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

    The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?

    The evidence is clear? The only thing that is clear is that you dont know what you are talking about.

    There is nothing wrong with drinking wine in the bible, in fact jesus turned water into wine, what do you think people done with the wine jesus made? THEY DRANK IT!

    Joh 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
    Joh 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
    Joh 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
    Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.


    Psalm 104:14f: "[The LORD] makes ... plants for man to cultivate – bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man,


    Only drunkenness is bad not drinking wine in general.




    Actually, the koran also says wine is a good thing for wise people:


    And from the fruits of date-palms and grapes, you people derive intoxicant drink as well as good and recommended eatables and drinks. 16.67

    And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink) intoxicants. But this is abrogated. Tafsir IBN ABBAS http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

    it [the wine] is referred to by the verbal noun [sakaran, ‘intoxicant’], and this [verse] came BEFORE IT WAS PROHIBITED — which is mentioned, there is a sign, indicating His power, exalted be He, for a people who understand, [a people who] reflect. Tafsir 16:67. Al Jalalalyn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2


    You who have iman! do not approach the prayer when you are drunk. Aisha Bewley .



    As for eating pork:

    "Are you so dull?" he (Jesus) asked, "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean'." Mark 7:18-23


    (I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you...
    Surat-u Ali Imran (3):50


    (And (I come) confirming) and I have come confirming Allah's divine Oneness in the Religion (that which was before me of the Torah) and all other Scriptures, (and to make lawful) to give you legal dispensation regarding (some of that which was forbidden unto you) such as the meat of camels, the fat of bovines and sheep, the Sabbath, and other things. Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2


    Likewise, I have come to you, confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of that which was forbidden to you, in it. Thus he made lawful for them fish and birds which had no spikes; it is also said that he made it all lawful for them, so that ba‘d, ‘some’, means, kull, ‘all’). Tafsir al-Jalalayn http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2
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    In Acts 10:9-16 Peter had a vision of heaven opening and a large sheet, containing all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds, being let down to earth. He then heard a voice saying, ‘Get up Peter. Kill and eat’. When Peter protested because the items were unclean the voice said ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean’. In the vision, God was preparing Peter for the arrival of a Gentile (non-Jewish) guest. The unclean animals in the vision represented the Gentiles and God was saying that he counted them as ‘clean’. God wanted Peter to welcome everyone into the community of believers.

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    I defy anyone to resist bacon. Besides, they're actually very clean animals.

    Also, it says drinking to excess, not drinking full stop. Which is fine by me.
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    yes we muslims belive he is alive he never died and resurected...he will come back to provve to everyone he is not god but he was a prophet...

    im sorry god cannot be a son and god...god has given us brains to think not to start beliving he was god he as father he was son....
    You believe jesus has been alive for 2000 years until now but he is just a prophet? Which other prophets live for 2000+ years?

    In islam, why is jesus different? What was the purpose for the virgin birth?
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    (Original post by Truthman)
    You believe jesus has been alive for 2000 years until now but he is just a prophet? Which other prophets live for 2000+ years?

    In islam, why is jesus different? What was the purpose for the virgin birth?
    to show that with gods power he can create anything...if he can create adam without a father and mother then what is the big del of jesus being created without a father...in this case adam should be regarded even higher as he has no father or mother?

    yes jesus is alive till now (only because GOD has allowed yout hink if god did not allow him he would be alive till now? no) but not on this earth when he returns to this earth he will not be a prophet he will be a normal human who will prove to everyone he once was a prophet and not god...but man changed the words and tried making him a god which he never claimed...in the bible there is not one single verse where he says I AM GOD...worship me....

    jesus is different in islam because we dont claim he was god he is a prohpet like any other like Muhammad pbuh....
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    (Original post by AceStacks)
    Alcohol:

    I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

    Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

    Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

    Swine:

    Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

    The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?
    It says drunkenness not drinking alcohol. Clearly you don't know the difference between having a glass of wine with your dinner and being pissed.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    ill give you 20 if i lose


    my god is actualy limitless..my god doesnt rest like yours does on the 7th day right?...my god doesnt punish people for the sins of adam and eve....


    god can be whatever he wants im sure he wouldt want to turn into a man and live on this dirty earth...that should be forbidden to think like that...how can god so high so clean so light become a man and walk this earth cmon mate use your sense...god can do so many things but im sure god wouldnt degrade himself to a human...
    my god is actualy limitless..my god doesnt rest like yours does on the 7th day right?...my god doesnt punish people for the sins of adam and eve....
    actually, the word that has been translated as 'rest' can also be translated at 'cease'. God 'ceased' from what he was doing (creating).


    "your god" allah actually send all muslims to help, even the devout ones who obeyed allah all throughout their lives:

    It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that every one of you will be taken to hell. Sura 19.71. Muhammad Sarwar .

    there is not a single one of you, TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS, save that he will ENTER IT, i.e. HELL. (That is a fixed ordinance of YOUR LORD) it is a decree that MUST NECESSARILY take place.” Sura 19:71. Tafsir Ibn abbas http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2


    If your god allah was "limitless" he wouldnt have had to lie to muhummad to get muhummad to do jihad:

    Remember, when allah showed them to you in your dream, in your sleep, as few, and so you informed your companions of this, and they were delighted, and had He shown them to you as many, you would have faltered, TAFSIR AL JALALAYN. Sura 8.43
    http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

    The above shows that allah is powerless.

    Compare the above verse to:

    Judges 7:2-8 and see how a TRUE God works.


    god can be whatever he wants im sure he wouldt want to turn into a man and live on this dirty earth.
    You are sure? what makes you so sure? You know how a God works?

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.


    god so high so clean so light become a man and walk this earth cmon mate use your sense...god can do so many things but im sure god wouldnt degrade himself to a human
    Well thats exactly what he did, he lowered himself and became a man to redeem us through his blood sacrifice, otherwise we'd all have to go to hell like allah says all muslims have to go to hell.

    christ rescued us from hell. But your god allah rescues muslims from hell by placing the sins of the muslims upon christians and jews:

    Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTIAN, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians. sahih Muslim Book 037, Number 6668:
    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/c...m/037.smt.html
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    Yes it bothers me that most Christians I know think nothing of getting drunk these days.

    As for the pig thing, that's the old testament.
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    to show that with gods power he can create anything...if he can create adam without a father and mother then what is the big del of jesus being created without a father...in this case adam should be regarded even higher as he has no father or mother?

    yes jesus is alive till now (only because GOD has allowed yout hink if god did not allow him he would be alive till now? no) but not on this earth when he returns to this earth he will not be a prophet he will be a normal human who will prove to everyone he once was a prophet and not god...but man changed the words and tried making him a god which he never claimed...in the bible there is not one single verse where he says I AM GOD...worship me....

    jesus is different in islam because we dont claim he was god he is a prohpet like any other like Muhammad pbuh....
    to show that with gods power he can create anything.
    and it actually says that in the koran? where does it say that this is the reason why jesus is still alive today and why other prophets like muhummad are dead.


    if he can create adam without a father and mother then what is the big del of jesus being created without a father.
    show us what the koranic reason is for the virgin birth. The bible is clear why jesus is born of a virgin, but what dose the koran say?

    in this case adam should be regarded even higher as he has no father or mother?
    Adam is a created being, jesus is not created:

    Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OF OLD, FROM EVERLASTING.

    Psa 102:25 OF OLD hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

    The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Psalms 93:1-2

    Hab 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD MY GOD
    ..


    es jesus is alive till now (only because GOD has allowed yout hink if god did not allow him he would be alive till now? no)
    again you have given no koranic reason why jesus is still alive today and muhummad is dead.

    when he returns to this earth he will not be a prophet he will be a normal human who will prove to everyone he once was a prophet and not god.
    The islamic jesus returns as a judge, he is more than a prophet and a human being. He will also abrogate parts of the koran.

    .but man changed the words and tried making him a god which he never claimed...in the bible there is not one single verse where he says I AM GOD...worship me..
    Actually, there are many places where jesus proves his deity:

    Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, JUST AS they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22-23

    Jesus was worshipped throughout his life:

    Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him

    Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

    Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

    Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him



    Look what happened when someone tried to worship peter, notice the reason peter gave as to why he should not be worshipped:

    Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped (proskuneo¯) him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I MYSELF AM JUST A MAN. peter worshipped jesus, so that means peter knew jesus as being something other than a man


    Peter worshipped jesus and therefore shows that peter believed jesus to be more than a mere man.

    John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.


    .in the bible there is not one single verse where he says I AM GOD...worship me.
    Is there a verse in the koran where "he says" 'i am a prophet'?
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    (Original post by Truthman)
    and it actually says that in the koran? where does it say that this is the reason why jesus is still alive today and why other prophets like muhummad are dead.

    Jesus, according to the teaching of Islam, is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point:

    "And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things? Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." 6:100-102

    Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus did not die on the cross. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point.

    "And because of their saying: 'We slew the Messiah Jesus Son of Mary, the Messenger of God.' They slew him not nor crucified him, but appeared so unto them; and lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof but the pursuit of a conjecture; for certain they slew him not, but God took him up to Himself. God is Ever-Mighty, Wise." 4:157-158

    So basically Jesus is right now in the heavens according to Islam



    show us what the koranic reason is for the virgin birth. The bible is clear why jesus is born of a virgin, but what dose the koran say?

    003.047
    YUSUFALI: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!



    019.020
    YUSUFALI: She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

    Here we see two verses from the Quran which show Mary the mother of Jesus asking the angel how can she have a son when no man has touched her, and that she is a chaste lady. there are more verses but it will get too long then....

    just because he was born without father you guys go to next level saying he is gods son..o god wanted to create jesus he did just like that....



    Adam is a created being, jesus is not created:

    Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OF OLD, FROM EVERLASTING.

    Psa 102:25 OF OLD hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

    The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Psalms 93:1-2

    Hab 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD MY GOD
    ..

    well its pretty obvious hes created...like i said adam was created wihtout a mother...however like all us humans jesus pbuh was given birth...a god cannot be given brith....


    again you have given no koranic reason why jesus is still alive today and muhummad is dead.

    i have given verse above why jesus is alive.....


    The islamic jesus returns as a judge, he is more than a prophet and a human being. He will also abrogate parts of the koran.

    no he returns to prove to you peo9ple who have changed the bible many times to prove he was not god......

    Actually, there are many places where jesus proves his deity:

    Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, JUST AS they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22-23

    Jesus was worshipped throughout his life:

    Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him

    Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

    Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

    Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him



    Look what happened when someone tried to worship peter, notice the reason peter gave as to why he should not be worshipped:

    Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped (proskuneo¯) him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I MYSELF AM JUST A MAN. peter worshipped jesus, so that means peter knew jesus as being something other than a man


    Peter worshipped jesus and therefore shows that peter believed jesus to be more than a mere man.

    John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.


    these still does not mean he is god,....why all these roundabouts if he was god he should firmly say it i am god...if someone says to me are you muslim i wont give a whole paragrpah the things i do to be muslim...i will say i am a muslim yes...why did jesus not say i am god....i have twice as more evidence from your bible why he was not god with quotes but they are about 3 pages so i will not write here....

    Is there a verse in the koran where "he says" 'i am a prophet'?
    019.030
    He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

    here are verses...Jesus is mentioned more times in the quran then muhammad pbuh: about 25 times:

    2:87] We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

    [2:136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses andJesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

    [2:253] Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

    [3:45] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

    [3:52] When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

    [3:55] Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

    [3:59] The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

    [3:84] Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

    [4:157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

    [4:163] We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

    [4:171] O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

    [5:46] And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

    [5:78] Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

    [5:110] Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

    [5:112] Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."

    [5:114] Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."

    [5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

    [6:85] And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous:

    [19:34] Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

    [33:7] And remember We took from the prophets their covenant: As (We did) from thee: from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary: We took from them a solemn covenant:

    [42:13] The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).

    [43:57] When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)!

    [43:61] And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

    [43:63] When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.

    [57:27] Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.

    [61:6] And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"


    [61:14] O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples, "We are Allah's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed. In the Arabic original text of the holy Quran, Jesus Peace be upon Him is mentioned explicitly by name exactly 25 times.

    [/B]
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    019.030
    He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

    here are verses...Jesus is mentioned more times in the quran then muhammad pbuh: about 25 times:

    2:87] We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

    [2:136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses andJesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

    [2:253] Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

    [3:45] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

    [3:52] When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

    [3:55] Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

    [3:59] The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

    [3:84] Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

    [4:157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

    [4:163] We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

    [4:171] O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

    [5:46] And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

    [5:78] Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

    [5:110] Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

    [5:112] Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."

    [5:114] Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."

    [5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

    [6:85] And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous:

    [19:34] Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

    [33:7] And remember We took from the prophets their covenant: As (We did) from thee: from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary: We took from them a solemn covenant:

    [42:13] The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).

    [43:57] When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)!

    [43:61] And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

    [43:63] When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.

    [57:27] Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.

    [61:6] And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"


    [61:14] O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples, "We are Allah's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed. In the Arabic original text of the holy Quran, Jesus Peace be upon Him is mentioned explicitly by name exactly 25 times.

    [/B]
    He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
    Good.


    The rest is actually meaninless, because of course jesus would be mentioned more than muhummad because muhumamd was nobody at the time. Using the name jesus is known as "name dropping" to sucker christians in. Moses is used more times than jesus, but what does that prove?


    Its like muslims who say that mary is more respected by muslims because she has her own chapter in the koran, but they dont realize how meaningless that is and also the fact that a cow has a chapter named after it, and a spider too.

    But anyway, thanks for clearing up the "where did jesus say he is a prophet".
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    Originally Posted by umarrehman187
    Jesus, according to the teaching of Islam, is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point:
    We are not talking about Islamic teachings, Islamic teachings teaches that Alexander the great is a prophet. The Muslims have their isa, the Muslim isa is not the biblical jesus and jesus warned about false Christs and false prophets.


    does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical.
    "And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things? Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." 6:100-102

    There you go, allah needs a wife to have a child, the biblical God doesn’t.

    6.101.. The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?

    He is, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, which He originated uniquely without precedent; how should He have a son, when He has no consort, spouse, Tafsir al-Jalalaynhttp://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo= 74&tSoraNo=6&tAyahNo=101&tDispla y=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2



    But if allah wanted a son who could go on a date with the houri:

    21.17 Had We wanted to have some amusement, We would have taken Ourselves, if We had really wanted to. http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_d...1&translator=8

    Had We desired to find some diversion, that which provides diversion, in the way of a partner or a child, We would have found it with Ourselves, from among the beautiful-eyed houris or angels,. Tafsir al-Jalalayn http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2


    Then Allah revealed the following, when they said that the angels are Allah's daughters: (If We had wished to find a pastime) if We wished to have daughters; and it is said that this means: if We wished to have a wife; and it is also said that this means: if We wished to have children, (We could have found it in Our presence) from Us from among the maidens of Paradise (if We ever did) Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2


    You also ignore the fact that the god allah from mecca who used to live in the kaba DID have children once.


    Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

    It is the historical fact that the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House of Allah at that time. The name of the God whom the Arabs worshipped was the god of pantheon—Ali-ilah the god, the supreme, the predeterminer of everybody’s life or destiny—the chief God “Allah”

    ‘It is certain that they regarded particular deities (mentioned in 1iii. 19-20 are al-‘Uzza, Manat or Manah, al-Lat; some have interpreted vii, 179 as a reference to a perversion of Allah to Allat) as daughters of Allah (vi. 100; xvi, 59; xxxvii, 149; 1iii, 21); they also asserted that THAT HE HAD SONS (vi. 100) First Encyclopedia of Islam E.J. Brill, 1987, p. 302)’



    When in history was allah not an idol? (proof needed not words)


    Basically, it would be the equivalent of a modern prophet of zeus destroying the other gods in the greek pantheon. Yet the fact would remain that zeus was originally one of many gods with sons and daughters.

    Being able to murder everyone who disagrees still wouldn’t make zeus the god of Abraham would it?


    Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus did not die on the cross. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point.

    "And because of their saying: 'We slew the Messiah Jesus Son of Mary, the Messenger of God.' They slew him not nor crucified him, but appeared so unto them; and lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof but the pursuit of a conjecture; for certain they slew him not, but God took him up to Himself. God is Ever-Mighty, Wise." 4:157-158

    So basically Jesus is right now in the heavens according to Islam

    I don’t see what the point you are making, you are stating Islamic beliefs, but they are just that ‘islamic beliefs, they have no real relevance as to what I was asking as to do humans really live for 2000 years? Come back to earth how exactly? Coming from where exactly? You havent explained why jesus is in heaven and not dead like muhummad.

    Also, your god allah created what you hate about Christianity because it was allah who deceived people into thinking that jesus died on the cross, as allah says ‘allah is the greatest deciever’, but then that forces the question ‘how do Muslims know that it is not them who have been deceived by allah’ seen as though allah is such a good deceiver.
    originally posted by truthman:
    show us what the koranic reason is for the virgin birth. The bible is clear why jesus is born of a virgin, but what dose the koran say?


    003.047
    YUSUFALI: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
    NO REASON GIVEN FOR THE REASON WHY JESUS HAD A VIRGIN BIRTH. ALL YOU ARE SHOWING IS THAT MARY WAS TOLD SHE WOULD HAVE A CHILD WITHOUT BEING TOUCHED, BUT NO REASON GIVEN FOR THIS.

    019.020
    YUSUFALI: She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
    NO REASON GIVEN FOR THE REASON WHY JESUS HAD A VIRGIN BIRTH. ALL YOU ARE SHOWING IS THAT MARY WAS TOLD SHE WOULD HAVE A CHILD WITHOUT BEING TOUCHED, BUT NO REASON GIVEN FOR THIS.


    Here we see two verses from the Quran which show Mary the mother of Jesus asking the angel how can she have a son when no man has touched her, and that she is a chaste lady. there are more verses but it will get too long then....
    NO REASON GIVEN FOR THE REASON WHY JESUS HAD A VIRGIN BIRTH. ALL YOU ARE SHOWING IS THAT MARY WAS TOLD SHE WOULD HAVE A CHILD WITHOUT BEING TOUCHED, BUT NO REASON GIVEN FOR THIS.


    just because he was born without father you guys go to next level saying he is gods son..o god wanted to create jesus he did just like that....
    No, we don’t take things anywhere. We are only going by what the bible says. The bible clearly says that jesus is the son of God:

    Surah 5:47
    Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.


    well its pretty obvious hes created...like i said adam was created wihtout a mother...however like all us humans jesus pbuh was given birth...a god cannot be given brith...
    .

    hhhh? Are you a god expert? How many Gods have you known personally? Remember, muhummad never even saw or heard his own god allah.

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.


    So in fact it islam which is a godless cult which depends on the words of one man muhummad who himself had no witnesses that gabriel was coming to him, and who also said he would kill anyone who didn’t accept him as a prophet:

    "The messenger of allah said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'" http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...SubjectID=9927




    i have given verse above why jesus is alive.....
    No you have not, you have said that jesus was taken up but as yet you have not given a reason why he got this special treatment and why muhummad dead.


    no he returns to prove to you peo9ple who have changed the bible many times to prove he was not god.....
    The Prophet said: Verily Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as an equitable judge and fair ruler. Hakim Mustadrak (see ibn kathir too)

    (
    these still does not mean he is god,....why all these roundabouts if he was god he should firmly say it i am god...if someone says to me are you muslim i wont give a whole paragrpah the things i do to be muslim...i will say i am a muslim yes...why did jesus not say i am god....i have twice as more evidence from your bible why he was not god with quotes but they are about 3 pages so i will not write here....
    2:651) # 4162 as related by Abu Harayra quoted in Kabbani, p. 237
    I could very well easily say the same about muhummad and allah. Allah says he is God, but no one has ever seen or heard the islamic god allah. Muhummad said gabriel comes to him, but no one else EVER saw gabriel. The people asked for a miracle to be sent, some even said they would believe if a miracle was sent, but no miracle was sent. Islam itself is baseless and people have to accept islam or die.

    Clearly, that cannot be from god.
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    yes we muslims belive he is alive he never died and resurected...he will come back to provve to everyone he is not god but he was a prophet...

    im sorry god cannot be a son and god...god has given us brains to think not to start beliving he was god he as father he was son....
    Are you trying to turn us into Muslims?


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    no im sorry we humans can never be an image of the most high...how can you even say that...your a worm mate...god never made us in is image...we are his slaves that is all....

    why does god have to create another then send him to earth and be god at the same time seriosuly so illogical
    Who the hell are you to call him a worm? He has an opinion. Respect that. This country has freedom of speech. So learn to respect other people rather than insulting them because you have different religious beliefs!!


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    I know, I was copying you in for clarity

    Also you didn't mention the Trinity, so I assumed it was something you weren't aware of, though what you said wasn't factually incorrect.
    I didn't mention the trinity because it had nothing to do with my point that an omnipotent God could do absolutely whatever they wanted. I don't feel the need to explain to people what the trinity is unless they are asking me (or saying stupid things regarding it) since I don't believe in it, or any other aspect of any other religion.
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    (Original post by anthonyfl)
    Are you trying to turn us into Muslims?


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    have i said anything there where it shows im trying to convert?
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    (Original post by boba)
    I didn't mention the trinity because it had nothing to do with my point that an omnipotent God could do absolutely whatever they wanted. I don't feel the need to explain to people what the trinity is unless they are asking me (or saying stupid things regarding it) since I don't believe in it, or any other aspect of any other religion.
    ok? :confused:

    I'm not really understanding where your angst is coming from, so I'm just going to leave this.
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    Its all about interpretation and not taking all this **** so seriously thats where your all going so wrong. peace

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