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Why do Christians see no problem in drinking Alcohol and eating Swine?

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    because most of us have the common sense not to believe 2000 year old human manuscripts as having been handed down word perfect from a sky pixie of some description

    hope that helps
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    (Original post by BO'H)
    because most of us have the common sense not to believe 2000 year old human manuscripts as having been handed down word perfect from a sky pixie of some description

    hope that helps
    That would make you an atheist, OP addresses Christians
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    The argument that alcohol is allowed in moderation seems so flawed, given the ease with which an individual can become drunk...and many do (Christians), as can be seen today
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    (Original post by Hobo389)
    Show me a Christian who thinks the entire bible is a true story and i'll show you a liar (or an idiot, just to cover all the bases).
    So which parts are true or false and the evidence to support that?
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    Jesus turned water into wine...


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    First off I just wanted to clear that not every single thing in the Old Testament was made null and void by the coming of Jesus. For example the Ten Commandments weren't just suddenly disregarded.

    Then:

    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    to show that with gods power he can create anything...if he can create adam without a father and mother then what is the big del of jesus being created without a father...in this case adam should be regarded even higher as he has no father or mother?

    yes jesus is alive till now (only because GOD has allowed yout hink if god did not allow him he would be alive till now? no) but not on this earth when he returns to this earth he will not be a prophet he will be a normal human who will prove to everyone he once was a prophet and not god...but man changed the words and tried making him a god which he never claimed...in the bible there is not one single verse where he says I AM GOD...worship me....

    jesus is different in islam because we dont claim he was god he is a prohpet like any other like Muhammad pbuh....
    1. Holiness or highness in the Bible is not counted exactly on who has the smallest number of parents. And Jesus did have a father - God the Father. Adam was created for an entirely different reason than why Jesus became God incarnate. Therefore they're not regarded to be on the same "level of highness" at all.

    2. It is certainly false to say that Jesus never claimed to be God. In John 10:30, Jesus states: "I and My Father are one." What kind of a prophet would have the authority or audacity to say that if he was a true prophet, if not the son of God?

    In John 8:58 Jesus also states: "...before Abraham was, I AM." That could only be said by someone who was alive before being born, and the human prophets were not. And what's more, "I am" is quite a powerful statement. He could've said "I was" but "I am" refers to a continuous being.

    These two statements by Jesus (as well as a number of other) upset a lot of people because they were understood as Jesus clearly implying that he is God.

    Lastly, as for the original question, being drunk or otherwise not being in control of your body (eg effect of drugs) is the sin. Not drinking in itself, as has been pointed out here by others. Pork and other animals that were considered unclean at the time of the Old Testament were made clean by the events described in Acts 10:10-16, as was also pointed out.
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    If you can't see the difference between drinking alcohol and being a drunkard then I despair for you..

    And Leviticus' rules on food prohibition is seen as related to the times, when pig would've been far more unhygienic and disease-ridden.

    edit: I think I remember something when Jesus said "it's not what goes into one's mouth that is important, but what comes out"
    I've seen the light!

    Fellacio is fine!!! :absinth: :beer:

    I don't buy the whole "It's in the OT, so it's outdated" crap. It's your holy book, you believe it or you don't. Damn cherry pickers.
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    Who cares? If you don't like, don't live here. Simples
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    (Original post by AceStacks)
    Alcohol:

    I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

    Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

    Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

    Swine:

    Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

    The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?
    As for Leviticus, it was written in the Old Testament hence why Jews don't eat pork and Christians do. As for wine, yeah it frowns on getting wasted which is hardly a surprise but considering Jesus turned water into wine it's also clearly not forbidden to have a drink now and then
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    have i said anything there where it shows im trying to convert?
    Constant insulting at Christianity, quoting en masse from the Koran to try and claim our beliefs are somewhat inferior to yours.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    Jesus himself turned water into wine- hardly a banned substance
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    (Original post by Alpharius)
    I've seen the light!

    Fellacio is fine!!! :absinth: :beer:

    I don't buy the whole "It's in the OT, so it's outdated" crap. It's your holy book, you believe it or you don't. Damn cherry pickers.
    And what about when the opposite is also in your holy book? And is more recent?

    :confused:
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    I personally don't eat pork and as for Alcohol the bible makes a strong case against it.
    • 1. It slows the thinking process (Prov. 31:4-5).
    • 2. It makes one dizzy (Job. 12:25).
    • 3. It is associated with self-centeredness (Hab. 2:5).
    • 4. It causes sickness (Jer. 25:27).
    • 5. It causes forgetfulness (Prov. 31:6-7).
    • 6. It produces delirious dreams (Prov. 23:33).
    • 7. It results in sleepiness (Gen. 9:20-25).
    • 8. It produces complacence and laziness (Zeph.
    1:12).
    • 9. It numbs one’s feelings (Prov. 23:31-35).

    If your a Muslim and oppose Alcohol , I don't see how rivers of wine can be flowing in Heaven.
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    (Original post by anthonyfl)
    Constant insulting at Christianity, quoting en masse from the Koran to try and claim our beliefs are somewhat inferior to yours.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    i never quoted verses to convert you therfore if that is the case i have seen many verses that crhistains are throwing that means they are trying to convert me then?
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    (Original post by Forget that)
    Jesus himself turned water into wine- hardly a banned substance
    Wine was usually mixed with water in those days.
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    (Original post by SilverSun)
    First off I just wanted to clear that not every single thing in the Old Testament was made null and void by the coming of Jesus. For example the Ten Commandments weren't just suddenly disregarded.

    Then:



    1. Holiness or highness in the Bible is not counted exactly on who has the smallest number of parents. And Jesus did have a father - God the Father. Adam was created for an entirely different reason than why Jesus became God incarnate. Therefore they're not regarded to be on the same "level of highness" at all.

    they are equal adam and jesus becasue they are prohpets...your saying it so calmly yes they canot be compared because jesus unlike adam was born without a father so? so?.. why would jesus be made different to adam? why dont you say adam is song of god too? like i said yes you chrsitians make it out to be so big becasue jesus was born without a father (virgin birth) then in that case adam wasnt born with a mother or father why is a deal not made oout of that? you can just say oh no you see adam thats different and jesus is different err yh no reason but its different? doesnt make sense to me

    2. It is certainly false to say that Jesus never claimed to be God. In John 10:30, Jesus states: "I and My Father are one." What kind of a prophet would have the authority or audacity to say that if he was a true prophet, if not the son of God?

    you see its not him and his father are one meaning they are both god...christians like i said take things to extreme, when he means i and my father are one he means the message he means the purpose he does not mean oh me and him are both god....if like you say jesus can say such a powerful status I AM im sure he could have easily said i am god instead of saying me and my father are the same and leaving people confused till the end of days

    In John 8:58 Jesus also states: "...before Abraham was, I AM." That could only be said by someone who was alive before being born, and the human prophets were not. And what's more, "I am" is quite a powerful statement. He could've said "I was" but "I am" refers to a continuous being.

    well lets see here , Jesus was with his father (god) before the time ,, lets read here some interesting verses :

    Jeremiah was with his father before the time too then ...

    we read in Jeremiah 1:5

    5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

    Bingo ,,, Jeremiah is god too , he was with the father before he was born

    we read in Hebrews 7:1-4

    1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
    2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
    3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

    wowo Melhizedek has no father and no mother ,, Jesus has mother at least
    Melhizedek has no beginning no end, Jesus has end , when he died
    Melhizedek is more divine ...

    lets read what solomon has to say about this :

    Proverbs 8:22-31

    22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
    23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
    24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
    25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
    26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
    27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
    28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
    29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
    30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

    Solomon was realy detailed here , he explains that he was before anything was created ....BINGO thast means he must be son of god now?

    so my dear friend why don`t you admit...like i said when he says I AM he meant god......not himself.....moses ask god whats heis name he went I AM...thats what jesus said before abraham was i am...... just becasue it says I AM christinas do not look ast context and say ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he said before abraham was me wooo....he must be god



    These two statements by Jesus (as well as a number of other) upset a lot of people because they were understood as Jesus clearly implying that he is God.

    'implyin? implyin why imply why not say it? becasue he was not god and words have been changed to make people belive he was god (i do not know how many versions of the bible there are :s)....like is said it doesnt upset no muslim as its sitll not proof and there are many cases where proven he was not the god

    Jesus said ” (a) “Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? . . .” (Matthew 27:46)
    (b) “And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:” (Mark 12:29)
    (c) “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.” (Mark 10:18).

    you guys pick the closest verse just to try convince yourself oh look he said i and my father are one.....then you forget all other verses lol




    Lastly, as for the original question, being drunk or otherwise not being in control of your body (eg effect of drugs) is the sin. Not drinking in itself, as has been pointed out here by others. Pork and other animals that were considered unclean at the time of the Old Testament were made clean by the events described in Acts 10:10-16, as was also pointed out.
    ....
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    The Son of God

    Another of the evidences used for Jesus’ divinity is the application of the title “Son of God” to Jesus. However, there are numerous places in the Old Testament where this title has been given to others.God called Israel (Prophet Jacob) His “son” when He instructed Prophet Mosesto go to Pharaoh in Exodus 4:22-23, “
    22
    And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says theLord, “Israel is my first-born son,
    23
    and I say to you, ‘Let my son go that he may serveme.’ ” 5[5]In 2nd Samuel 8:13-14, God calls Prophet Solomon His son, “
    13
    He [Solomon]shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
    14
    I will be his father, and he shall be my son.”
    5[5] See also, Hosea 1:10, of the
    King James Version.


    God promised to make Prophet David His son in Psalms 89:26-27: “
    26
    He shallcry unto me, ‘Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation,’
    27
    Also I willmake him my first-born, higher than the kings of the earth.”6[6]Angels are referred to as “sons of God” in The Book of Job 1:6, “Now there was aday when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan alsocame among them.”7[7]

    In the New Testament, there are many references to “sons of God” other than Jesus.

    For example, when the author of the Gospel according to Luke listed Jesus ’ancestors back to Adam, he wrote: “The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam,the son of God.”8[8]

    Some claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the onlybegotten9[9] Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God isrecorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7,

    “I will tell the decree of the Lord: Hesaid to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’ ”It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually callhimself “Son of God”.10[10] Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself“Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times.

    And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejectedbeing called “Son of God”:
    “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are theSon of God!’ But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because theyknew that he was the Christ.”Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children inany literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them“Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God,as a son is to a father.
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    (Original post by AceStacks)
    Alcohol:

    I Cor 6:9-10 - "A drunkard cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

    Rom 13:13 - "Carousing and drunkenness is improper behavior"

    Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise"

    Swine:

    Leviticus 11:7-8 - "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

    The evidence is clear so why don't Christians admit to their sins?
    Alcohol The problem is with being drunk rather than alcohol.

    Swine "There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” Mark 7:15
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    (Original post by Dutchman81)
    Wine was usually mixed with water in those days.

    It might have been a little bit more watered down, but remember why Jesus had to turn the water into wine in the first place- it was all gone!
    Also people were saying, 'Oh, you've saved the best till last, great, usually people don't do that' indicating that by this time intoxication would have already taken place.
    This is a great memory exercise
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    And what about when the opposite is also in your holy book? And is more recent?

    :confused:
    Don't care, I'm cherry-picking to suit my preferences.

    I'm not religious, as a side note. I'm just taking the piss out of theists who are always cherry-picking to suit their own needs.

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