[Skill]

(Original post by Ham_Sandwich)
No. I don't. I mean normal girls working in high street shops for minimum wage. There's bonuses there too.
Is the problem waitresses doing their job and trying to make sure you have a nice meal or the fact that you seem to think all women are whores?

Bonuses like? Give me an example please as I have never come across or heard of such a bonus.

[Ham_Sandwich]

(Original post by Skill)
Bonuses like? Give me an example please as I have never come across or heard of such a bonus.

I used to work in a shoe shop, minimum wage. We were given targets to meet on both shoes and extras at the till (like cleaning spray and insoles and whatever). If we didn't meet those targets 2 months in a row we got sacked, if we went over them you got part of the staff bonus.

[Skill]

(Original post by Ham_Sandwich)
I used to work in a shoe shop, minimum wage. We were given targets to meet on both shoes and extras at the till (like cleaning spray and insoles and whatever). If we didn't meet those targets 2 months in a row we got sacked, if we went over them you got part of the staff bonus.

Well at least you were selling something. What are the waiters selling for their tip?

[megan.c]

(Original post by Skill)
Well at least you were selling something. What are the waiters selling for their tip?

Flawed logic is flawed.

They were selling something. They work in a shop, it's the purpose of their job, they get extra if they do it well.
Waitresses provide service. It's the purpose of their job, with tips they get extra if they do it well.

[Skill]

I'll tell you another reason I think it's actually 'immoral'.

These girls will claim that they provide customer service not because of the tip but because they want to provide good customer service.

Could you imagine if David Beckham or Richard Branson turned up at the restaurant ... you can bet your life that the waiter/waitress will try their utmost best to be as exceptionally friendly and polite and so on to get a nice tip. A hot girl will try be nice, flirt and smile with them and basically pander up to this guy and lick his arse just to get her tip off.

That's why I find tips immoral. I've just proven that the overly friendly customer service is actually rather fake and over the top. Because when a man with money appears, they'll do their best to get their tip. I'd say it's equal to prostitution when it comes to that.

[Skill]

(Original post by megan.c)
Flawed logic is flawed.

They were selling something. They work in a shop, it's the purpose of their job, they get extra if they do it well.
Waitresses provide service. It's the purpose of their job, with tips they get extra if they do it well.

No they get paid bonus for selling a premium good that doesn't get sold often. Waiters are just banking on their politeness and overbearing friendliness. They wouldn't be so friendly outside of work so it's pure fake.

[Ham_Sandwich]

(Original post by Skill)
Well at least you were selling something. What are the waiters selling for their tip?

Their time? Service? Knowledge of the menu? Waitressing is far more hands-on than most customer service jobs. You've basically got them at your beck and call for 3 hours and on top of that they often clean and prepare the restaurant before you come in, and helping out in the kitchen isn't unheard of. It's like 3 jobs in one but we don't get paid any more for doing it.
My point was however, that being friendly to customers so they'd buy more in order to get more money is no more fake than a waitress smiling to get a tip, yet you don't seem to have a problem with that.

[CurlyBen]

(Original post by Skill)
I'll tell you another reason I think it's actually 'immoral'.

These girls will claim that they provide customer service not because of the tip but because they want to provide good customer service.

Could you imagine if David Beckham or Richard Branson turned up at the restaurant ... you can bet your life that the waiter/waitress will try their utmost best to be as exceptionally friendly and polite and so on to get a nice tip. A hot girl will try be nice, flirt and smile with them and basically pander up to this guy and lick his arse just to get her tip off.

That's why I find tips immoral. I've just proven that the overly friendly customer service is actually rather fake and over the top. Because when a man with money appears, they'll do their best to get their tip. I'd say it's equal to prostitution when it comes to that.

The flaw in that 'logic' is that it implies that customer service in a shop or any other place where tipping is not expected would be terrible. I've had terrible service in restaurants and great service in shops (and vice versa, obviously) - by your logic that implies tipping discourages good customer service.

Alternatively, some people are nice and will do their best for you regardless of tips, and some couldn't care less, regardless of tips.

[megan.c]

you are so, so, so naive. It's painful.

Waitresses are encouraged to give good service to attract business. If someone goes to a cafe/restaurant and receives good service they are likely to come back again which means more business and more sales for the cafe owner.

And, as I have stated before, I would be fired if I didn't give exceptional service at all times.

Personally, I don't alter myself too much with customers, I treat them how I feel they would like to be treated when being served. In real life I treat people as I feel they want to be - unless of course they are a complete ****, constantly insults me and doesn't warrant anything good natured, suc as yourself

[Persephone9]

(Original post by Skill)
The fact that you built your work experience solely on waitressing is your problem. You've therefore created a problem for yourself.

Yep, unfortunately being a full time student, plus all that pesky volunteering I did whilst in school, limits the amount of time I can work, and so who will take me on as staff, so I take what I can get. That is largely catering. The majority of us don't have the luxury of just packing in a job that we don't particularly like as there isn't many others

If you'd like to tell me I should go on a course to improve my skills to get a job, I am essentially on one. Unfortunately, from start to finish it's at least 5 years till I can get a job out of it, so looks like I shall have to waitress in the mean time.

(Original post by Skill)
I'm not saying you're necessarily flirting as such ... but it's being clever with your sex, your looks and using it to sweeten men a bit. You wouldn't be acting super friendly if you met some fat balding 40 year old on the street would you? No. It's being clever and using that motivation of getting a tip which drives the over friendly customer service. From the polite talk to the guys and girls who stand by the exit and wave you goodbye. Pure arse licking for your money. Don't like.

Being clever with my sex...? Not actually something I chose myself.
Jokes aside, I'm being friendly because as I said, customer service is part of my job. Being super friendly to only those I am sexually interested in is not part of my job.

(Original post by Skill)
Bonuses like? Give me an example please as I have never come across or heard of such a bonus.

My housemate works in PC world. They have someone who stands at the front of the store to be polite and smile and welcome you (usually a girl), and so do Next (especially in sale periods). They do this because in their experience it helps them sell things.

Anyway, the girl who works in PC world, when they exceed their sales targets they get a bonus. If they didn't exceed them, they would still get their basic pay packet. Gosh darn those PC world staff, being friendly to customers so they buy more stuff, pushing them closer to the sales target so they can have a bonus.

[Arekkusu]

It's a good system - the most effective way, I think, of rewarding and incentivising good service. The only way a company could approximate it would be to give each diner questionnaires to fill in and then rewarding workers at the end of the month.

The only downside is it probably means the restaurant can get away with paying very poor wages.

[moonkatt]

You lot are getting trolled to **** in this thread here.

[Skill]

(Original post by Ham_Sandwich)
Their time? Service? Knowledge of the menu? Waitressing is far more hands-on than most customer service jobs. You've basically got them at your beck and call for 3 hours and on top of that they often clean and prepare the restaurant before you come in, and helping out in the kitchen isn't unheard of. It's like 3 jobs in one but we don't get paid any more for doing it.
My point was however, that being friendly to customers so they'd buy more in order to get more money is no more fake than a waitress smiling to get a tip, yet you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Sorry but why is that different from a retail job? My shop is busy and I am port of call for my shift time also. Knowledge of menu? Knowledge of products on the shelf .... sorry but it's all the same as much as you try to differentiate.

I don't have a problem with that because there is a product to be sold so there is a reason for the money to be exchanged. Bonuses such as what the girl mentioned are not that common and if the product is sold I highly doubt it goes to the person who sold it - that is a salesman not a retail assistant.

[Skill]

(Original post by megan.c)
you are so, so, so naive. It's painful.

Waitresses are encouraged to give good service to attract business. If someone goes to a cafe/restaurant and receives good service they are likely to come back again which means more business and more sales for the cafe owner.

And, as I have stated before, I would be fired if I didn't give exceptional service at all times.

Personally, I don't alter myself too much with customers, I treat them how I feel they would like to be treated when being served. In real life I treat people as I feel they want to be - unless of course they are a complete ****, constantly insults me and doesn't warrant anything good natured, suc as yourself

I am naive? Says the 19 year old earning piss poor money in some poxy cafe. Well done. Honestly you're better off claiming JSA and chilling out. Now that is naive .. you'd probably earn more!

[theonefrombrum]

(Original post by dean01234)
You type of people disgust me...

You get a nice meal and drinks brought to your table, they manage any queries and any substitutions/changes to the menu, check if you are ok and if not they take care of any complaints.

Yet still you wont pay a tiny bit extra to show your gratitude and supplement their small salaries. Sure if they do a poor job you shouldn't tip but for the average server doing their best to ensure your happiness you should tip a little.

Why should you tip a waiter who has done this (the job that they're paid to do) but not an assistant in boots for example who is really helpful and as attentive? Or the bin man? Or the bus driver who drives you to where you want to go? T me it's completely ridiculous that waiters and waitresses are the only people who think that they are entitled to tips, when there's other occupations out there which are more menial, more helpful to a person where if you were to give a tip it would be considered weird.

[Ham_Sandwich]

(Original post by Skill)
Sorry but why is that different from a retail job? My shop is busy and I am port of call for my shift time also. Knowledge of menu? Knowledge of products on the shelf .... sorry but it's all the same as much as you try to differentiate.

I don't have a problem with that because there is a product to be sold so there is a reason for the money to be exchanged. Bonuses such as what the girl mentioned are not that common and if the product is sold I highly doubt it goes to the person who sold it - that is a salesman not a retail assistant.

Are you meant to know every single item in that shop at where/how/from what it's made at any give time? Are you meant to meant to know what's in stock and what isn't? And what's been popular? And whether that jumper has wool in it because the customer is allergic to it? Without your walkie-talkie or computer to check all this? Are you meant to remember what everyone in your shift bought? Do people come in and say that they'd really like this dress but in a different colour and expect you to ensure the manufacture makes one like it?

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by Origami Bullets)
I worked in one place where we weren't allowed to accept tips, and customers were treated with disdain, to the point of contempt, because we just didn't care.

If an employee won't do their job properly unless they're given arbitrary amounts of change to perform a service they're already being paid for, they shouldn't be employed.

If they consider the work to be beneath them without being given tips, she should find another job.

I say this all as a former waiter and an individual who supports a good high wage for waiters/waitresses but no tipping.

[Hravan]

If you go to America you have to tip. In America tips make up the wait staff's wages, not on top of it.

To explain... Minimum wage in the UK is £6.08 an hour for over 21s and you know that your waiter/waitress will be getting that and that your tip is an extra on top of that. If we had the American system, the min wage would still be £6.08 an hour but they would only be paid about £3.50 an hour by their boss and they would have to make up the shortfall with their tips. Oh and they (the waiter/waitress) also have to give some of their tips to the chefs/people working in the kitchens.
So even if the service isn't great, you do need to tip in America. (A lot of wait staff in America hate serving foreigners because we don't tip because we don't understand their tipping culture. )


You don't have to tip in the UK. I don't unless it was exceptional service. I get paid nat min wage and I don't get tips. (It doesn't really come up though because I can't actually afford to eat out )

[Skill]

(Original post by Hravan)
If you go to America you have to tip. In America tips make up the wait staff's wages, not on top of it.

To explain... Minimum wage in the UK is £6.08 an hour for over 21s and you know that your waiter/waitress will be getting that and that your tip is an extra on top of that. If we had the American system, the min wage would still be £6.08 an hour but they would only be paid about £3.50 an hour by their boss and they would have to make up the shortfall with their tips. Oh and they (the waiter/waitress) also have to give some of their tips to the chefs/people working in the kitchens.
So even if the service isn't great, you do need to tip in America. (A lot of wait staff in America hate serving foreigners because we don't tip because we don't understand their tipping culture. )


You don't have to tip in the UK. I don't unless it was exceptional service. I get paid nat min wage and I don't get tips. (It doesn't really come up though because I can't actually afford to eat out )

I'm 22. I earn £6.50. So the minimum I would earn as a waiter is £6.08

Wow. It's not so bad after all. Definitely do not need tips if that's the case. How is that poor money?

[Ham_Sandwich]

(Original post by Hravan)
If you go to America you have to tip. In America tips make up the wait staff's wages, not on top of it.

To explain... Minimum wage in the UK is £6.08 an hour for over 21s and you know that your waiter/waitress will be getting that and that your tip is an extra on top of that. If we had the American system, the min wage would still be £6.08 an hour but they would only be paid about £3.50 an hour by their boss and they would have to make up the shortfall with their tips. Oh and they (the waiter/waitress) also have to give some of their tips to the chefs/people working in the kitchens.
So even if the service isn't great, you do need to tip in America. (A lot of wait staff in America hate serving foreigners because we don't tip because we don't understand their tipping culture. )


You don't have to tip in the UK. I don't unless it was exceptional service. I get paid nat min wage and I don't get tips. (It doesn't really come up though because I can't actually afford to eat out )

Not every restaurant is like though. A lot of waiting staff are cash in hand and aren't paid minimum wage, and plenty have to share tips between all the staff. There's no hard and fast rule about it.