[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Rtcw)
No. Islam is an abrahamic religion, I think you can work that out from here.

yes, but how does that answer the question of christ being seen as the prophet of the israelites but also the messiah of islam and for all mankind? He has two roles? If Islam is so perfect, why do they need christ for its "cause"?

[Rational Thinker]

Muhammad(pbuh) was;

1. Rich. He had enough money to live a very comfortable life, and his wife Khadija(ra) was also very rich due to being a business woman.

2. Apart of the Qureysh tribe, which at that time, were the "boss" tribe of Mecca.

3. His uncle, Abu Talib ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, was the leader of the Banu Hashim clan (which is apart of the Qureysh tribe).

4. He was known amongst his community as "the Trustworthy" (due to Mecca's lawless society, people would entrust Muhammad with their property, wealth and even women, for whenever they had to leave town).


That just proves my point you think because someone has money they don't want more? The rich often go into politics. You think him being a member of a boss tribe is impressive, it just makes Mohammed sound like a gangster.

[B-Man.]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Right Mohammed's sexuality he married a nine year old girl. I know you can say it was the norm back then but the Koran is either the everlasting word of God or it isn't therefore either paedophillia is ok or the Koran is wrong.

Secondly the translation was from a good book store and high quality. Also to the person who said you lose something in the translation if it is translated correctly why should you? Sounds too much like a getout clause to me.

Lets keep it objective people no hurling of insults just state whether you like me don't believe in Islam or you do and why you don't believe or believe.

Wait, are you claiming to have read the 'Koran' and I mean all of it?

[Rational Thinker]

Muhammad(pbuh) wasn't some poor begger seeking attention. This was one of the things that perplexes the critic, because he had a very comfortable life, a lot of respect, well known, a lot of power, knowing people in all the high places etc.


That isn't that special. The buddha came from a rich family and left to a religious life only difference is Buddha didn't go on to conquer lands and kill people.

[Inverse]

(Original post by Huz)
The only problem is those who criticize Islam without ever reading the Qu'ran. lol I can't wait till you find out the truth, but by the end of time that will be too late.

Everybody who slanders Islam will have their dues.

Yh seemz legit bro lletz all get arranged marriages xoxox

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my HTC One X

[Kosmos]

I'm sorry but how is he the best example for humans if he said that theft should bring about amputation (5:38) and the death penalty should be for anyone who leaves Islam (4:89).

[Rational Thinker]

Are you claiming to have read the 'Koran?'

Yes I have read the Koran.

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Muhammad(pbuh) was;

1. Rich. He had enough money to live a very comfortable life, and his wife Khadija(ra) was also very rich due to being a business woman.

2. Apart of the Qureysh tribe, which at that time, were the "boss" tribe of Mecca.

3. His uncle, Abu Talib ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, was the leader of the Banu Hashim clan (which is apart of the Qureysh tribe).

4. He was known amongst his community as "the Trustworthy" (due to Mecca's lawless society, people would entrust Muhammad with their property, wealth and even women, for whenever they had to leave town).


That just proves my point you think because someone has money they don't want more? The rich often go into politics. You think him being a member of a boss tribe is impressive, it just makes Mohammed sound like a gangster.

what the hell is a "boss tribe" ?

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Muhammad(pbuh) was;

1. Rich. He had enough money to live a very comfortable life, and his wife Khadija(ra) was also very rich due to being a business woman.

2. Apart of the Qureysh tribe, which at that time, were the "boss" tribe of Mecca.

3. His uncle, Abu Talib ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, was the leader of the Banu Hashim clan (which is apart of the Qureysh tribe).

4. He was known amongst his community as "the Trustworthy" (due to Mecca's lawless society, people would entrust Muhammad with their property, wealth and even women, for whenever they had to leave town).


That just proves my point you think because someone has money they don't want more? The rich often go into politics. You think him being a member of a boss tribe is impressive, it just makes Mohammed sound like a gangster.

so he wanted more money/wealth? What do you base this on?

[Rational Thinker]

I think a boss tribe is one that was good at hurting other people and bullying them a bit like the Mafia?

[Trailblazer]

(Original post by Kosmos)
Why did you put peace be upon him after muhammad, are you a muslim?

I'm agreeing with you.

No I'm not a Muslim personally. I'm one of those radical and dangerous individuals called atheists . But religion, and religious believers do fascinate me as a Philosophy student. I said it out of respect really, in spite of my critique. I always try to see things from the language game of a religious believer.

The way your post read the first time it seemed as though you were watering down my arguments, my bad

[Starrstruck]

(Original post by Kosmos)
No but that means god treats everyone unequally, I don't care about bad lives and such you're shifting the goal posts, I'm saying that if he did exist and was just, he'd show himself to everyone as he apparently did to Muhammed and every other prophet or disciple, then people can decide to disobey him or not.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact about the bad lives, yes that'd be fine if he proved himself to everyone rather than a select favored few who have apparently been given the evidence.

Yes, but that's what religion is about - having faith in something without any clear evidence. I haven't had any but I still believe in Islam. Call me crazy but at least it's given me a purpose in life and sense of belonging. You have to remeber that prophets and ordinary humans are different, God showed himself to them so that they could carry out God's message. I understand what you're saying about showing himself to us but God works in mysterious ways. At the present moment, humans don't have the mental capacity to understand why he does certain things. It's good that people are questioning it though - just remeber that everything God does doesn't have a simple reasoning behind it, even Muslims might not know.

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Muhammad(pbuh) wasn't some poor begger seeking attention. This was one of the things that perplexes the critic, because he had a very comfortable life, a lot of respect, well known, a lot of power, knowing people in all the high places etc.


That isn't that special. The buddha came from a rich family and left to a religious life only difference is Buddha didn't go on to conquer lands and kill people.

buddha, hinduism and the rest are different. Islam is the direct challenger to christianity, both in terms of religion and political/geographical power. Islam is a way of life and they don't have the "turn the other cheek" policy.

[Kosmos]

You seriously cannot use the hadiths to reinforce your viewpoints considering most of them are either made up in order to further their political agenda or they're inconsistent with the qu'ran, we cannot know which are true or which are false.

Examples from the hadiths: "when you hear the crowing of a cock(not a penis) ask for Allah's blessings for it has seen an angel.."
"yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha,' Satan will laugh at him."

[Rational Thinker]

(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
so he wanted more money/wealth? What do you base this on?

More power than wealth but probably wealth as well. Mohammed probably realised if he splashed his cash to put it crudely. That this might help his cause. The fact is making up your own religion is often very profitable look at L Ron Hubbard.

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Starrstruck)
Yes, but that's what religion is about - having faith in something without any clear evidence. I haven't had any but I still believe in Islam. Call me crazy but at least it's given me a purpose in life and sense of belonging. You have to remeber that prophets and ordinary humans are different, God showed himself to them so that they could carry out God's message. I understand what you're saying about showing himself to us but God works in mysterious ways. At the present moment, humans don't have the mental capacity to understand why he does certain things. It's good that people are questioning it though - just remeber that everything God does doesn't have a simple reasoning behind it, even Muslims might not know.

yes different but also the same. They are not "superhuman". You muslims take christ to be the islamic messiah when he was only mentioned as the prophet of the israelites. Nothing more than that. why did the muslims steal christ for their "cause"?

[B-Man.]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Are you claiming to have read the 'Koran?'

Yes I have read the Koran.

Oh right. And you read about what I quoted below in that Koran then?

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
Right Mohammed's sexuality he married a nine year old girl. I know you can say it was the norm back then but the Koran is either the everlasting word of God or it isn't therefore either paedophillia is ok or the Koran is wrong.

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Rational Thinker)
More power than wealth but probably wealth as well. Mohammed probably realised if he splashed his cash to put it crudely. That this might help his cause. The fact is making up your own religion is often very profitable look at L Ron Hubbard.

what do you base all these assumptions about his wealth on?

[Rational Thinker]

buddha, hinduism and the rest are different. Islam is the direct challenger to christianity, both in terms of religion and political/geographical power. Islam is a way of life and they don't have the "turn the other cheek" policy.

Are you arguing for or against Islam. Are you an atheist criticising this about Islam or a Muslim who thinks using violence makes Islam endearing?

[Xotol]

(Original post by Kosmos)
You seriously cannot use the hadiths to reinforce your viewpoints considering most of them are either made up in order to further their political agenda or they're inconsistent with the qu'ran, we cannot know which are true or which are false.

Examples from the hadiths: "when you hear the crowing of a cock(not a penis) ask for Allah's blessings for it has seen an angel.."
"yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha,' Satan will laugh at him."

Actually, based on chain of narration, you can get a pretty good idea of what Hadiths are reliable or not. As far as I know, pure Quranists are rare.

The Qur'an does not give every single thing and even refers people to read Muhammad's words, so they're very important. For example, without Hadiths, Muslims wouldn't know how to pray.