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Syria: Support

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Post on TSR and win a prize! Find out more... 10-04-2014
  • View Poll Results: ..
    The Syrian Government/Alawites/Shia Population/Christian Population
    11
    28.21%
    Free Syrian Army/Assorted rebel Groups
    16
    41.03%
    Neither/Undecided
    10
    25.64%
    Outside Inteference supporter FSA/Rebels
    2
    5.13%

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    The FSA as well as the other peaceful protesters in Syria which are still around. I don't understand how anyone could support Assad. Even if you disagree with the methods of the FSA and see them as just as bad as the government these protests started off peaceful and only became violent long after quite a few civilians had been shot and armour used to control some of the cities. How anyone could defending the shooting and use of heavy weapons against civilians I'll never understand. High level generals are defecting from Assad if parts of his own military disagree with what he is doing how can anyone else support him?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    The FSA as well as the other peaceful protesters in Syria which are still around. I don't understand how anyone could support Assad. Even if you disagree with the methods of the FSA and see them as just as bad as the government these protests started off peaceful and only became violent long after quite a few civilians had been shot and armour used to control some of the cities. How anyone could defending the shooting and use of heavy weapons against civilians I'll never understand. High level generals are defecting from Assad if parts of his own military disagree with what he is doing how can anyone else support him?
    The FSA and allied groups are worse than the government.

    The "houla massacre" was a false flag operation by extremist sunni groups who attacked Alawites and Shias.

    The UN "observers" are a bunch of incompitent, naive and impressionable fools who don't understand the meaning of the word "agenda" from either the UN or the areas they inspect. Everytime I see one of those idiots in their blue uniforms, white skin and little clipboards the first thing I think is "Oh Gee wizz, there goes someone who really knows what is going on"

    All I can see happening in Syria is the arming of Jihadist groups by the US, Nato, and Israel to topple a government who are MASSIVE allies with Iran and Hezbollah, obviously this causes more "stability" (in the formers eyes) in the region.
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    The FSA and allied groups are worse than the government.

    The "houla massacre" was a false flag operation by extremist sunni groups who attacked Alawites and Shias.

    The UN "observers" are a bunch of incompitent, naive and impressionable fools who don't understand the meaning of the word "agenda" from either the UN or the areas they inspect. Everytime I see one of those idiots in their blue uniforms, white skin and little clipboards the first thing I think is "Oh Gee wizz, there goes someone who really knows what is going on"

    All I can see happening in Syria is the arming of Jihadist groups by the US, Nato, and Israel to topple a government who are MASSIVE allies with Iran and Hezbollah, obviously this causes more "stability" (in the formers eyes) in the region.
    I'd like sources for the bit in bold and I'd like to know why the UN observers skin colour annoys you?

    And Russia and Iran are also arming and funding Syria so that they don't lose an ally in the region. What they are doing is really no different from what the west and gulf states are doing. Syria is more or less a proxy war. However given that Assad started it by brutally crushing a fairly peaceful protest movement I hope he falls.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I'd like sources for the bit in bold and I'd like to know why the UN observers skin colour annoys you?

    And Russia and Iran are also arming and funding Syria so that they don't lose an ally in the region. What they are doing is really no different from what the west and gulf states are doing. Syria is more or less a proxy war. However given that Assad started it by brutally crushing a fairly peaceful protest movement I hope he falls.
    (Original post by Aj12)
    I'd like sources for the bit in bold and I'd like to know why the UN observers skin colour annoys you?

    And Russia and Iran are also arming and funding Syria so that they don't lose an ally in the region. What they are doing is really no different from what the west and gulf states are doing. Syria is more or less a proxy war. However given that Assad started it by brutally crushing a fairly peaceful protest movement I hope he falls.
    I enjoy this channel, http://www.youtube.com/user/SyrianGirlpartisan (watch as many videos as you can)

    and this from my good friend of the Syrianatheist network on Facebook



    The iranianatheist on FB is another good source of information, maybe if actually talk to these people you will understand that what the western media paints as "government shelling" killing civilians, is nothing more than violent sunni groups who kill a variety of non-sunni's the day before UN observers come in.

    So lets look at Libya, since Gaddaffi has falled, has that situation improved? That war was no where near as bad as the Syrian one, the latter, in my opinion, is now a religious war, and sectarian. Assad was wrong to quash the protests, but the actions of the rebels are MUCH worse than whatever the syrian govt has been accused of by Sunni propoganda and gullable western sources. If Assad falls the country will just be a sectarian hell hole. Well, most of the Christians have been killed and forced out anyway, so there isn't too much left to kill for these Salafist thugs.

    I can't wait for the wikileaks files to come flooding in, after all, Assange has claimed it will be a huge embarassment for the FSA.

    This article is fantastic, http://wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/pers-m31.shtml

    You can find many, MANY voices of Sryina civilians and their support for reform, you just have to look, like I did. Instead of readily eating up the absolute crap every major western news source vomits out.

    The public aren're really taking it though, its the centre left that are calling for "humanitarian intervention". I think 64% of American are opposed to intervention, and 66% are against arming rebels, and in the UK, it is in the region of 80%.

    I know which side I'm on for the simple face that the rebels are supported and are being armed by Israel (indirectly) and Nato.
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    I enjoy this channel, http://www.youtube.com/user/SyrianGirlpartisan (watch as many videos as you can)

    and this from my good friend of the Syrianatheist network on Facebook



    The iranianatheist on FB is another good source of information, maybe if actually talk to these people you will understand that what the western media paints as "government shelling" killing civilians, is nothing more than violent sunni groups who kill a variety of non-sunni's the day before UN observers come in.

    So lets look at Libya, since Gaddaffi has falled, has that situation improved? That war was no where near as bad as the Syrian one, the latter, in my opinion, is now a religious war, and sectarian. Assad was wrong to quash the protests, but the actions of the rebels are MUCH worse than whatever the syrian govt has been accused of by Sunni propoganda and gullable western sources. If Assad falls the country will just be a sectarian hell hole. Well, most of the Christians have been killed and forced out anyway, so there isn't too much left to kill for these Salafist thugs.

    I can't wait for the wikileaks files to come flooding in, after all, Assange has claimed it will be a huge embarassment for the FSA.

    This article is fantastic, http://wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/pers-m31.shtml

    You can find many, MANY voices of Sryina civilians and their support for reform, you just have to look, like I did. Instead of readily eating up the absolute crap every major western news source vomits out.

    The public aren're really taking it though, its the centre left that are calling for "humanitarian intervention". I think 64% of American are opposed to intervention, and 66% are against arming rebels, and in the UK, it is in the region of 80%.

    I know which side I'm on for the simple face that the rebels are supported and are being armed by Israel (indirectly) and Nato.
    That channel you linked me to is pure utter crap. You expect me to believe videos from press TV, infowars and youtube videos from someone calling themselves Syria Girl who comes out with such gems as al Qaeda being a CIA run operation?

    As for the other video there are dozens on youtube claiming the exact opposite, what makes you so sure that your version of events is true? Obviously you can ask me the same thing but I'd like to know why you are so trusting of a narrative mostly backed by Syrian, Russian and Iranian media outlets all with reputations of spreading outright lies. This is what I don't understand and I've asked it of various regime supporters countless times. Why are you so willing to attack and question the western media's version of events yet point straight to the regimes version and refuse to question it?

    The country already is a hell hole. I'm not really sure how its going to get much worse. Assad can't crush the rebels and the rebels don't have the power to take over the country all we are going to see is prolonged civil war.

    And a huge embarrassment for the Assad regime too. I imagine it will be the standard stuff though. American emails calling for covert support of the rebels, strategies on how to remove Assad ect.

    Ah so your on the side that is backed by Iran and Russia then? I'm not really sure why the backing of outside powers makes a difference to you since the same thing is going on for the regime, I doubt Assad would still be in power were it not for Iranian money and Russian weapons.

    I've got a question for you too. If this is more or less a sectarian civil war pitting the regime against terrorists and extremists why are generals defecting?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    That channel you linked me to is pure utter crap. You expect me to believe videos from press TV, infowars and youtube videos from someone calling themselves Syria Girl who comes out with such gems as al Qaeda being a CIA run operation?

    American emails calling for covert support of the rebels, strategies on how to remove Assad ect.

    Ah so your on the side that is backed by Iran and Russia then? I'm not really sure why the backing of outside powers makes a difference to you since the same thing is going on for the regime, I doubt Assad would still be in power were it not for Iranian money and Russian weapons.

    I don't believe what PressTV says as much as the BBC either, Alex Jones is a tin-foil hatter.

    Its pretty damn obvious that that Al-Qaeda are the result of CIA operations.

    The leaks, I imagine, will document attrocities commited by the Free Syrian Army and allied Jihadist groups, as well as info of the same from the Assad Army.

    I'm not on Russia's side and I'm not on Iran's side, nor Hezbollah. But I am also DEFFINATELY NOT on the rebels side, or the FSA. I am on the peaceful reform side, which most Syrians support. I'd rather Syria be a secular socialist country rather than another complete authoritarian islamist hellhole of which most surrounding countries are, to deny that syria wasn't better than them is blindless. Syria will end up like Libya, only worse. A bustling slave trade worse than libya, attrocities commited against Christians, Black Africans, Secularists, Shia's and Alawites, war lord factions ... the whole shabang.

    So you deny that Al-Qauda are flourashing in Syria? You deny that Christians have been driven out, or killed, you deny that the alawite community has been butchered and hacked by salafist jihadists?? I take it you deny the thousands that turned up in Damascus in support of Assad, or the rallies held around various european cities, the only anti-assad rallies accross europe seem to come from the sort that are allied with Choudary.

    The claim that the houla massacre was the result of bombing and then small arms executions by the Assad govt is complete and utter nonsense.

    Let me reiterate, you trust our side? You trust the side where the US, Israel, Saudi ******* Arabia ... are against the Assad Government? Ever wonder why?
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    I don't believe what PressTV says as much as the BBC either, Alex Jones is a tin-foil hatter.

    Its pretty damn obvious that that Al-Qaeda are the result of CIA operations.

    The leaks, I imagine, will document attrocities commited by the Free Syrian Army and allied Jihadist groups, as well as info of the same from the Assad Army.

    I'm not on Russia's side and I'm not on Iran's side, nor Hezbollah. But I am also DEFFINATELY NOT on the rebels side, or the FSA. I am on the peaceful reform side, which most Syrians support. I'd rather Syria be a secular socialist country rather than another complete authoritarian islamist hellhole of which most surrounding countries are, to deny that syria wasn't better than them is blindless. Syria will end up like Libya, only worse. A bustling slave trade worse than libya, attrocities commited against Christians, Black Africans, Secularists, Shia's and Alawites, war lord factions ... the whole shabang.

    So you deny that Al-Qauda are flourashing in Syria? You deny that Christians have been driven out, or killed, you deny that the alawite community has been butchered and hacked by salafist jihadists?? I take it you deny the thousands that turned up in Damascus in support of Assad, or the rallies held around various european cities, the only anti-assad rallies accross europe seem to come from the sort that are allied with Choudary.

    The claim that the houla massacre was the result of bombing and then small arms executions by the Assad govt is complete and utter nonsense.

    Let me reiterate, you trust our side? You trust the side where the US, Israel, Saudi ******* Arabia ... are against the Assad Government? Ever wonder why?
    If you don't believe what they say why do you trust a channel that hosts their videos?

    I don't see how you can even view them as the result of a CIA operation, the CIA never had anything to do with bin Laden. And to say they are a CIA controlled outfit is just pure utter rubbish.

    So far they just seem to include emails about corporations helping the Syrian regime. If they continue in that vein I don't think you will get anything so substantial as accounts of massacres.

    Assad just seems to have done the classic dictator response to reform. Sets up a few committees makes a few promises and goes right on ruling. I doubt you will ever see any dictatorship willingly reforming itself into democracy. Any change in Syria is going to require him leaving, and its pretty apparent he won't do it at least so far. He has missed the chance to reform the country, that died last year with the peaceful protesters.

    Do I deny its going on or that al Qaeda are in Syria? No. I do deny it to the extent the regime and its supporters claim. And yes I am going to be sceptical of pro Assad rallies, I highly doubt they are all they seem. Pro dictatorship rallies rarely are. Links for these pro Assad European protests?

    As I understood it the actual massacre at Houla was carried out by a pro gov militia, there was shelling on the town in response to an attack on a near by government checkpoint which was in response to the government shooting at protesters.

    Not sure what point you are trying to make at the end of your post.
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    My view of our foreign policy has changed over the years, particular in respect to the Arab world and the benefits of interventions either via political or military means. I don't think it is in our interests to get involved to be honest. The situation in Syria will resolve itself, whether that happens via the defection of Assad's government and military or whether the rebellion/revolution is quelled. I think we should condemn the use of heavy military equipment and press for its removal from civilian areas, but I don't think we should get involved by providing military or political support to either side.
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    (Original post by Aj12)

    I don't see how you can even view them as the result of a CIA operation, the CIA never had anything to do with bin Laden. And to say they are a CIA controlled outfit is just pure utter rubbish.

    Assad just seems to have done the classic dictator response to reform.

    Links for these pro Assad European protests?

    As I understood it the actual massacre at Houla was carried out by a pro gov militia, there was shelling on the town in response to an attack on a near by government checkpoint which was in response to the government shooting at protesters.

    Not sure what point you are trying to make at the end of your post.

    http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/jan/17/yemen.islam

    Search around yourself for european pro assad rally's, why do I have to do it for you. Information is plentiful. Though is is biased, as far as I can see, the SyrianTruthNetworkEn provides sourced and easily identifiable demonstrations with easily identifiable aims.

    Right, shelling the town, so remind me how "shelling" causes people to have bullet holes in them and their throats slit?

    I hope the left wing faction of the Ba'ath party returns, as it was pre-assad.
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/jan/17/yemen.islam

    Search around yourself for european pro assad rally's, why do I have to do it for you. Information is plentiful. Though is is biased, as far as I can see, the SyrianTruthNetworkEn provides sourced and easily identifiable demonstrations with easily identifiable aims.

    Right, shelling the town, so remind me how "shelling" causes people to have bullet holes in them and their throats slit?

    I hope the left wing faction of the Ba'ath party returns, as it was pre-assad.

    Those links completely miss what I'm asking you. Giving training and weapons to the Mujhadeen that then went on to form al Qaeda years after the CIA had long left Afghanistan is not the same as the CIA creating, running and to this day running al Qaeda which is what one of those videos is claiming.

    Main links I found were Press TV. Hardly reliable. Couple of other links mention protests of around 200 people. These aren't exactly proving your point that Assad has much support.

    Like I said in my post a pro regime militia went in afterwards and carried out shootings. I believe the allegations of throats being cut was false.
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    The west should stay out of it this time. It's done enough by intervening in Egypt, Libya and Iraq already.
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    Here is what happens

    1. We invade
    2. Muslim party wins elections
    3. we complain because they are ruled by muslims
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    Arm the FSA. Don't interfere on the ground. That should be enough.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    The FSA as well as the other peaceful protesters in Syria which are still around. I don't understand how anyone could support Assad. Even if you disagree with the methods of the FSA and see them as just as bad as the government these protests started off peaceful and only became violent long after quite a few civilians had been shot and armour used to control some of the cities. How anyone could defending the shooting and use of heavy weapons against civilians I'll never understand. High level generals are defecting from Assad if parts of his own military disagree with what he is doing how can anyone else support him?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Syrian Government is doing nothing which Britain did not do to Germany in WW2. In order to not be hypocritical as a nation on the whole, we must apply the same rules of engagement to Syria. Well the Syrian army is doing the same thing, they are focusing the attacks on the morale of ENEMY CIVIL POPULATION. The Syrian army is firstly making places physically uninhabitable and secondly making the enemy population conscious of constant personal danger.

    The Syrian armies immediate aim is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) The fear of death.

    You cannot change the rules of engagement to suit your personal agenda, if such rules of engagement are good enough for the British then such rules of engagement are also fine for Syria.

    Please do not be hypocritical now, Syria is fighting a devious enemy and it has to employ the same tactics the British employed on Germany, afterall such tactics allowed the British to win and therefore Syria also wants to win against a devious terrorist opposition which again is supported by the west ...sound fmailiar.... yep just like the Mujahadeen aka Al Qaeda were not so long ago.

    Sorry you are fooling no one this time, you can make your words as emotional as you wnat you poor ickly thing but no one will be fooled by the lies that the likes of you spill out, we have seen Iraq we have seen Afghanistan we have seen the devastation our so called 'boys' have brought upon these countries, if anything I willl be sending financial support to the Syrian regime so that they can strike down terrorists which are supported by our government.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I'd like sources for the bit in bold and I'd like to know why the UN observers skin colour annoys you?

    And Russia and Iran are also arming and funding Syria so that they don't lose an ally in the region. What they are doing is really no different from what the west and gulf states are doing. Syria is more or less a proxy war. However given that Assad started it by brutally crushing a fairly peaceful protest movement I hope he falls.
    Nope they are fulfilling binding contracts and selling to a legitimate government. The west is arming terrorist groups. Clear difference. When these terrorist group execute attacks in the west like the mujahadeen aka AL Qaeda did, only then will some sense be knocked into that skull of yours, and then what will happen, we will go warmongering into Syria, thats what you want isn't it, warmongerer, hasn't Iraq and Afghanistan satisfied you and thrilled you enough, you want a lucky third invasion now hmmm?
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    (Original post by Jakanory)
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    The Syrian Government is doing nothing which Britain did not do to Germany in WW2. In order to not be hypocritical as a nation on the whole, we must apply the same rules of engagement to Syria. Well the Syrian army is doing the same thing, they are focusing the attacks on the morale of ENEMY CIVIL POPULATION. The Syrian army is firstly making places physically uninhabitable and secondly making the enemy population conscious of constant personal danger.

    The Syrian armies immediate aim is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) The fear of death.

    You cannot change the rules of engagement to suit your personal agenda, if such rules of engagement are good enough for the British then such rules of engagement are also fine for Syria.

    Please do not be hypocritical now, Syria is fighting a devious enemy and it has to employ the same tactics the British employed on Germany, afterall such tactics allowed the British to win and therefore Syria also wants to win against a devious terrorist opposition which again is supported by the west ...sound fmailiar.... yep just like the Mujahadeen aka Al Qaeda were not so long ago.

    Sorry you are fooling no one this time, you can make your words as emotional as you wnat you poor ickly thing but no one will be fooled by the lies that the likes of you spill out, we have seen Iraq we have seen Afghanistan we have seen the devastation our so called 'boys' have brought upon these countries, if anything I willl be sending financial support to the Syrian regime so that they can strike down terrorists which are supported by our government.

    Few things that make your comparison garbage:

    1 Syria is not fighting total war against another enemy state.
    2 The enemy population you speak of is Assad's own population, the Syrian army is meant to protect them.
    3 The FSA are not a state, places like homs are not industrial areas with strategic value but predominately civilian and nothing more.
    4 Just because Britain did something in world war two (which has caused a ton of controversy ever since.) does not make it right.
    5 its widely known that the British bombing of German cities contributed very little to the war effort in terms of grand strategy and was generally continued for propaganda reasons.

    Why would even think to compare the two I don't know.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Few things that make your comparison garbage:

    1 Syria is not fighting total war against another enemy state.
    2 The enemy population you speak of is Assad's own population, the Syrian army is meant to protect them.
    3 The FSA are not a state, places like homs are not industrial areas with strategic value but predominately civilian and nothing more.
    4 Just because Britain did something in world war two (which has caused a ton of controversy ever since.) does not make it right.
    5 its widely known that the British bombing of German cities contributed very little to the war effort in terms of grand strategy and was generally continued for propaganda reasons.

    Why would even think to compare the two I don't know.
    1. It is still an enemy nevertheless

    2.The enemy population is a terrorist supporting one, the army has no responsibility to protect terrorist supporters

    3.the FSA are an enemy, like the Nazis were. Refer to my source which I posted, it stated that attacks must be focused on the CIVIL population, the aim Britain had was to cause large massacres, simple as, you can dress up how you want though, but that is what it was. Syria is therefore doing the same.

    4. The same rules of engagement must still be applied to Syria, it is only fair, otherwise it will clearly prove that its one rule for the west another for the Middle East.

    5. It doesn't matter how much or little it contributed, the fact is it happened, and many more were killed than in Syria. Syria is doing nothing different to what Britain did, so stop being a hypocrite.

    6. To prove how idiotic wannabe hero brits are hypocrites, like you for example, thats why.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    My view of our foreign policy has changed over the years, particular in respect to the Arab world and the benefits of interventions either via political or military means. I don't think it is in our interests to get involved to be honest. The situation in Syria will resolve itself, whether that happens via the defection of Assad's government and military or whether the rebellion/revolution is quelled. I think we should condemn the use of heavy military equipment and press for its removal from civilian areas, but I don't think we should get involved by providing military or political support to either side.
    Agree with this.

    This is nowhere near a simple situation as some may think of Government v Rebels (an assorted people as they may be).

    Supporting one side or a certain faction does not mean that there will be peace within the whole country once the Government is toppled.

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