[Ewok]

(Original post by mirin?)
i believe i'm entitled to success because i owe it to my own potential, not necessarily some solicitors training contract.

And therein lies the source of your unjustified sense of entitlement. People deserve things, on the whole, because they have worked for them, not because they have the potential to achieve them were they to bother to apply themselves.

What real proof do you have of your potential? Getting a first in a few modules does not guarantee a first overall. An overall first generally requires sustained hard work- how do you know you're capable of this if you haven't tried it? And how do you know that getting 71% in the odd module is enough to drag up any 63%s you may have got in other modules? I am completely unpersuaded by this argument- perhaps an employer may not be.

You've done some extra curriculars (not sure I'd list doing a mini-pupillage at the largest northern set (St John's Buildings?) as an achievement given that it requires little aptitude to actually do a mini-pupillage- they are merely indications of commitment to the Bar and some knowledge of the profession), but so have many people. Charity work, languages, great- has your second language come about because you were raised bi-lingual or because you learnt it yourself? If the latter then that certainly shows a great deal more commitment and aptitude.

I'm sorry to lay into you so harshly like this but I do think you need to step back for a moment and open your eyes a bit more.

[mirin?]

(Original post by Rancorous)
I presume they set up their own businesses? That's usually the way to go if you want a lot of money. As far as your own success, you shouldn't compare yourself to others, or live and die by what others think of you. I'm sure your family wouldn't judge you on how much you earn, it's probably just a personal, competitive thing. You're probably better off doing what you want to do and if you can make a business of your own out of it down the line, all the better.

I don't really want to go into detail about the specifics of what sectors my family are in because it all seems a bit surreal considering it happened within the past 30 years.

It is a personal competitive thing, but I am just a student and i know nothing. I have to go out there and make my own way so to speak. And i think making a business of my own is definitely something i'm gearing towards but tbh i need to get out into the world and actually try.

[mirin?]

(Original post by Ewok)
And therein lies the source of your unjustified sense of entitlement. People deserve things, on the whole, because they have worked for them, not because they have the potential to achieve them were they to bother to apply themselves.

What real proof do you have of your potential? Getting a first in a few modules does not guarantee a first overall. An overall first generally requires sustained hard work- how do you know you're capable of this if you haven't tried it? And how do you know that getting 71% in the odd module is enough to drag up any 63%s you may have got in other modules? I am completely unpersuaded by this argument- perhaps an employer may not be.

You've done some extra curriculars (not sure I'd list doing a mini-pupillage at the largest northern set (St John's Buildings?) as an achievement given that it requires little aptitude to actually do a mini-pupillage- they are merely indications of commitment to the Bar and some knowledge of the profession), but so have many people. Charity work, languages, great- has your second language come about because you were raised bi-lingual or because you learnt it yourself? If the latter then that certainly shows a great deal more commitment and aptitude.

I'm sorry to lay into you so harshly like this but I do think you need to step back for a moment and open your eyes a bit more.

You're entitled to, and i accept that i'm not great yet. But, then again, thats life. People only want to know the end result and not the process.

I'm going to improve significantly if i actually put in sustained hard work and i know that. But it must be for what i want, and thats money. I don't really care about being in some respected role like Doctor or Lawyer.

So people applying for the magic circle and getting the jobs may be better than me at the moment? But so what? It doesn't mean they're going to end up with more in the bank than me.

[hiding12]

(Original post by mirin?)
To cut a long response short, I don't want kids. However, i grew up accustomed to my parents making at least 200k a year in the 90's. I don't want to be a failure compared to them so its why i'm trying so hard to work to their standards. I don't want to be seen as the failure when most of my family are self made millionaires. That is my motivation.

What did they do? I would do what you want to do, not what they want you to do.Money doesn't bring happiness at the end of the day. I know a lot of unhappy people with money

[hiding12]

(Original post by mirin?)
You're entitled to, and i accept that i'm not great yet. But, then again, thats life. People only want to know the end result and not the process.

I'm going to improve significantly if i actually put in sustained hard work and i know that. But it must be for what i want, and thats money. I don't really care about being in some respected role like Doctor or Lawyer.

So people applying for the magic circle and getting the jobs may be better than me at the moment? But so what? It doesn't mean they're going to end up with more in the bank than me.

if u dont give a **** about society, respect or anything then do into banking

[roh]

(Original post by mirin?)
You're entitled to, and i accept that i'm not great yet. But, then again, thats life. People only want to know the end result and not the process.

I'm going to improve significantly if i actually put in sustained hard work and i know that. But it must be for what i want, and thats money. I don't really care about being in some respected role like Doctor or Lawyer.

So people applying for the magic circle and getting the jobs may be better than me at the moment? But so what? It doesn't mean they're going to end up with more in the bank than me.

Surely not always true?. The kid from my tutor group at school who's since become a mid level drug dealer will have considerably more in the bank than me and can be seen recently driving an R8. I'll be blunt I still consider myself better than him because dealing smack isn't the most skilled of jobs.

[mirin?]

(Original post by hiding12)
What did they do? I would do what you want to do, not what they want you to do.Money doesn't bring happiness at the end of the day. I know a lot of unhappy people with money

To be brief:

Cousin No.1 : Equity partner of a mid-level law firm in London. Well known. Graduated in same course as me in same uni.

Cousin No.2: LSE grad in Economics. Former investment banker, then consultancy. Now owns his own management consultants firm in London.

Cousin No.3: Owns a lot of the student property in Manchester and ethnic supermarkets. Lives on the same street as Alex Ferguson.

Cousin No.4: Cambridge prodigy. Got into Compsci at 14. Leads projects such as the systems at terminal 5 at Heathrow (i loll'ed at him for that though lol when they failed)

Uncle and Dad: Property investments here and overseas. Started out in restaurants and take aways business then expanded. Started at 18 as laundry boys though.

[LarrikinLibertine]

(Original post by mirin?)
You're entitled to, and i accept that i'm not great yet. But, then again, thats life. People only want to know the end result and not the process.

I'm going to improve significantly if i actually put in sustained hard work and i know that. But it must be for what i want, and thats money. I don't really care about being in some respected role like Doctor or Lawyer.

So people applying for the magic circle and getting the jobs may be better than me at the moment? But so what? It doesn't mean they're going to end up with more in the bank than me.

Obviously all I know about you is what you've written on this thread, and perhaps I'm not in a position to judge, but you don't seem like the kind of polished product a MC firm would be looking for. By no means am I saying you can't be successful, but purely from reading what you've written you don't sound like a corporate lawyer to me.

[mirin?]

(Original post by LarrikinLibertine)
Obviously all I know about you is what you've written on this thread, and perhaps I'm not in a position to judge, but you don't seem like the kind of polished product a MC firm would be looking for. By no means am I saying you can't be successful, but purely from reading what you've written you don't sound like a corporate lawyer to me.

I think the same, and i would rather you be brutally honest with me. But, if i was a polished product anyway, i think i would be unhappy in a MC firm.

[hiding12]

(Original post by mirin?)
I think the same, and i would rather you be brutally honest with me. But, if i was a polished product anyway, i think i would be unhappy in a MC firm.

I think u would be, if you value you're life, you prob wouldn't want to work there, you literally have to sell your life and soul

[mirin?]

(Original post by hiding12)
I think u would be, if you value you're life, you prob wouldn't want to work there, you literally have to sell your life and soul

For around net 60k income in your 30's lol. It's not worth it. Yes you get to work with some of the most influential people in the world on some of the most historical deals if you get promoted to a decent level, but then what?

[roh]

(Original post by mirin?)
For around net 60k income in your 30's lol. It's not worth it. Yes you get to work with some of the most influential people in the world on some of the most historical deals if you get promoted to a decent level, but then what?

Partner if you're lucky? Or in the case of Slaughters positively blessed.

Otherwise could do what many barristers have traditionally done and take a cushy safe seat in parliament and go for the power.

[DickDastardly]

lol this thread is making me question whether i want to do my GDL and LPC now hahaha

[fudgesundae]

(Original post by mirin?)
I am still trying to decide which profession to commit to for the next couple of years and money is very important for me. I have choices to make and I have to say that money is the key driving factor for me. I appreciate that partners make a ridiculous amount of money, but what about the average lawyers in general in the regions and London?

You don't make a lot of money by being average at anything.

But to answer your question.

3PQE is anywhere from 80k to 110k depending on which firm you work for. After 5PQE salaries become very variable. Some people will start becoming partners, others will leave, some may stay at the same level.

(Original post by roh)
MC solicitors are on a lockstep up until around 9 years post qualification at which point I think they make around 150k, check with JacketPotatoe.

In the regions most solicitors probably make anywhere between 50-70k at associate level. How much their partners make obviously depends on the size of their partnership, if you're equity etc.

You can't really comment on salaries 9 years post qualification. They become extremely variable 5 years post qualification. 9 years post qualification you really should be around the partner level.

(Original post by Rancorous)
Lawyers do tend to stay in law, but when they leave they tend to take a pay cut to a still decent salary in-house depending on the level of experience, 50k+. But with 5-10PQE+ experience in an MC it's not too tricky to find jobs 100k+. My data on in-house salaries isn't bang up to the minute though.

You can see what lawyers make on ROF and other sites in the training years and years within 5PQE.

However, your question was do they actually make much money. And in real terms; no! 100k after tax is close to 60k. Income tax is progressive, i.e. higher salaries have greater percentages taken away in tax. Generally that means after doing the GDL/LPC, a two year training contract, practicing for 7-10 years, in your 30s, you'll be getting 60k after tax; is that good money for you? Do you think that's a good trade off for the hours you'll have to work? Many do.

3PQE is roughly 85k at most firms, up to 110k at the US firms. If you haven't made partner 7 years post qualification it starts becoming increasingly unlikely you will, due to the up or out policy you mentioned.

[mirin?]

(Original post by fudgesundae)
You don't make a lot of money by being average at anything.

But to answer your question.

3PQE is anywhere from 80k to 110k depending on which firm you work for. After 5PQE salaries become very variable. Some people will start becoming partners, others will leave, some may stay at the same level.



You can't really comment on salaries 9 years post qualification. They become extremely variable 5 years post qualification. 9 years post qualification you really should be around the partner level.



3PQE is roughly 85k at most firms, up to 110k at the US firms. If you haven't made partner 7 years post qualification it starts becoming increasingly unlikely you will, due to the up or out policy you mentioned.

Up or out en masse these days i've heard.

[fudgesundae]

(Original post by mirin?)
Up or out en masse these days i've heard.

yep. So if you do manage to stay in it that long, you'll be looking at a pretty tidy salary. Junior partners can get anywhere from 200-400k. Bearing in mind Junior Partner titles are often given to people who they don't want to get rid of, but also don't feel they are ready to be a full partner. Salaried partners can get 400-600k or so depending on the firm, and of course if you make it to equity partner, then in excess of £1 million is definitely not out of reach.

[Rancorous]

(Original post by fudgesundae)
3PQE is roughly 85k at most firms, up to 110k at the US firms. If you haven't made partner 7 years post qualification it starts becoming increasingly unlikely you will, due to the up or out policy you mentioned.

http://www.rollonfriday.com/InsideIn...8/Default.aspx

I don't know if you're factoring in bonuses, but they can be unreliable and depend on lots of things - anything from 4-12%+, and so can be £2.5-8.5k+. But in terms of base for 3PQE it can be anything from as low as 60, frequently 70k, and A&O does 86K. A lot of very decent City firms pay less than 80k. In some firms which pay a base of 80 odd k, I think it's theoretically possible to take home 100k under the most generous bonus schemes, but I can't give much insight into that except that I expect it applies to very few people.

[jacketpotato]

Academics are extremely important for law firms because they are relevant. Much of the work you do uses the same skills that lead to success in exams. Also, with exams you have to be consistent and you have to cover the syllabus properly - being consistent and being thorough are necessary skills for lawyers.

(Original post by DickDastardly)
with professions, you have to have some level of genuine interest in them to be able to roll out of bed at 5 30 am, get to work for 7 and leave 12 hours later. to do that for years the job itself has to have some intrinsic meaning for you i think.

Exactly. Op needs to appreciate that there is more to life than money. If you are going to spend most of your working life at work, it better be something that gives you a sense of purpose and a sense of satisfaction. You are more likely to excel at something you are genuinely interested in.

[fudgesundae]

(Original post by Rancorous)
http://www.rollonfriday.com/InsideIn...8/Default.aspx

I don't know if you're factoring in bonuses, but they can be unreliable and depend on lots of things - anything from 4-12%, and so can be £2.5-8.5k. But in terms of base for 3PQE it can be anything from as low as 60, frequently 70k, and A&O does 86K. A lot of very decent City firms pay less than 80k.

Yes I was, sorry. 70k is probably on the low end including bonuses though. Like you say the majority pay 70k+ base. I wouldn't say that loads pay below 80k. Even with a small bonus at least half the firms will be paying 80k+.

[mirin?]

(Original post by fudgesundae)
yep. So if you do manage to stay in it that long, you'll be looking at a pretty tidy salary. Junior partners can get anywhere from 200-400k. Bearing in mind Junior Partner titles are often given to people who they don't want to get rid of, but also don't feel they are ready to be a full partner. Salaried partners can get 400-600k or so depending on the firm, and of course if you make it to equity partner, then in excess of £1 million is definitely not out of reach.

I.e. Like any profession, be the best at the job and/or make very good alliances.
But one has to question whether they'd be that good as a lawyer.