Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free to post

Do corporate lawyers in London really make that much money?

Announcements Posted on
Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sianeh)
    Nobody is getting at the OP for being "driven by money", I, like another poster above, am just a bit confused as to why he came looking for advice in the legal section when he appears to be so adamant he is above such a career. Ah yes, because since starting this thread a few hours ago he has done some research and discovered law isn't for him. Well damn, our loss I suppose as he's going to knuckle down and get a 1st class degree and some connections and become exceptional at...well, we're not quite sure what yet.
    Tbh, I am not accountable to anyone. I don't need to explain myself. Yeah sure, it may be arrogant etc, and omgz you may see that its an omen i'll fail in life.

    But, i don't care. And obv i knew much more than i seemed to express in my op. You don't need to know my motivations for making the thread, not relevant.

    You will meet a lot of people with my personality in the city. You might as well get accustomed to it and accept it now. Harsh, but it is the rat race, good thing is that you don't need to be nice either.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    Tbh, I am not accountable to anyone. I don't need to explain myself. Yeah sure, it may be arrogant etc, and omgz you may see that its an omen i'll fail in life.

    But, i don't care. And obv i knew much more than i seemed to express in my op. You don't need to know my motivations for making the thread, not relevant.

    You will meet a lot of people with my personality in the city. You might as well get accustomed to it and accept it now. Harsh, but it is the rat race, good thing is that you don't need to be nice either.
    You have sounded like a 13 year old in all your posts so somewhat unsurprisingly I've managed to avoid people like you thus far, and I have a feeling I'll continue to avoid such children just fine (if I stay off forums like this). It's not arrogance I take issue with, in fact I find it to be an attractive trait but it has to be backed up with something, and yours just isn't yet.
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sianeh)
    You have sounded like a 13 year old in all your posts so somewhat unsurprisingly I've managed to avoid people like you thus far, and I have a feeling I'll continue to avoid such children just fine (if I stay off forums like this). It's not arrogance I take issue with, in fact I find it to be an attractive trait but it has to be backed up with something, and yours just isn't yet.
    Your ignorance is amusing. You'll be in for a surprise.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    can anyone really clarify what a previous person has said?

    In that there isnt enough work to go around for solicitors, that people are being made redundant, reduced salary etc
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    If you can get in to a top City firm, and put in the hours to work that hard for the next 20+ years (if you dont love corporate law this wont be possible) and even the starting pay is about or above the national average. Money will not be a concern and you can lead a get life unbounded by worries of money unless you dream of owning a football club as a lawyer.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I8150
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    As I thought. I am a law student chasing a first in the upcoming final year, but I want to go into a profession where I have maximum earning potential with the qualifications I have.

    Basically, I haven't got the perfect academic history Magic Circle firms require. I dossed around with alcohol, girls, etc, during my GCSE, A-Level and first year of university. I managed to get into Law at a well respected Russell Group university with less than AAB because I had extenuating circumstances. But i picked up my act in second year and got a mix of 2.1 and first class grades.


    Basically, I know I am very intelligent ability wise, but the candidates to magic circle firms are better i think at this moment in time because they have spent so many years focussing on a perfect academic record which i don't have. So really, i am paying for my past.
    Ok,I don't want this to be a personal attack...I just want to offer a bit of a real world perspective...
    You know you're very intelligent...based on what? You're average A-level results? You're what I assume to be average 1st year results? or you're slightly above average 2nd year results?...

    You've referenced the cause of some of these sub standard scores to be "alcohol,girls,etc"...90% of teenagers/uni students have the same distractions, it is not a legitimate excuse

    In another post you spoke about some success that you are entitled to...why are you entitled to it?
    The success of your family members does not entitle you to a certain degree of success..nor does it mean you have the potential to be as successful as them.

    I think once you realise that you are not a rough diamond, and that anything you achieve you will have to work very hard for you will start succeeding.
    But like another poster alluded to, what your exhibiting isn't arrogance/confidence it's just grandeur's of delusion.
    You probably do have a lot of potential but just stop telling people/worrying about it/comparing yourself to others, and do some work
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by space-cowboy)
    Ok,I don't want this to be a personal attack...I just want to offer a bit of a real world perspective...
    You know you're very intelligent...based on what? You're average A-level results? You're what I assume to be average 1st year results? or you're slightly above average 2nd year results?...

    You've referenced the cause of some of these sub standard scores to be "alcohol,girls,etc"...90% of teenagers/uni students have the same distractions, it is not a legitimate excuse

    In another post you spoke about some success that you are entitled to...why are you entitled to it?
    The success of your family members does not entitle you to a certain degree of success..nor does it mean you have the potential to be as successful as them.

    I think once you realise that you are not a rough diamond, and that anything you achieve you will have to work very hard for you will start succeeding.
    But like another poster alluded to, what your exhibiting isn't arrogance/confidence it's just grandeur's of delusion.
    You probably do have a lot of potential but just stop telling people/worrying about it/comparing yourself to others, and do some work
    Yes, but you just said here has substance. And that is why I stop and listen to people who talk as you have just done here. And that is also why i must achieve something great to shut people up.

    But if you are just going to insult me and not say anything constructive then why should i react kindly to it?
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    no wonder so many grads do law conversion courses post uni! didnt know wages got into the 100's of k!


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    • 13 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    Yes. But I would actually have to try.

    I love it how the butthurt aspiring corporate lawyers are acting well... butthurt. It is funny how this is the first realisation they have come to that the golden pay packet they are seeking is not really that golden.

    Fact of life, there will always be someone richer or more important than you. Get over it. You are a slave to the rich corporation and rich individuals. If you are so intelligent as you claim to be why not try to become one yourself instead of taking cheap shots like Aspiringlawstudent?

    Oh, i know why, because you never will be. HA.
    Eh? Do you mean I took a cheap shot at you, or do you mean that I am one of the people trying to get there?

    If the former, I don't think I took a cheap shot, did I? I made no evaluation on whether you were able to do it or not. I just suggested that it would be better to focus your efforts in getting there rather than asking if the pay was really what it is said to be.

    I don't know much about you, so I can't really make any evaluative judgment as to your ability to get where you want to be - so I didn't make one. I'm not quite sure how you thought that I did, if that is indeed what you meant.
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    You will meet a lot of people with my personality in the city. You might as well get accustomed to it and accept it now. Harsh, but it is the rat race, good thing is that you don't need to be nice either.
    Yes, they make my coffee.

    You need to understand that 90% of doing well in the city is whether people like you. It isn't some sort of ability rat-race, there are thousands of people who can be good lawyers and thousands of people who can make basic trades on a bank trading floor - its not that difficult. If people don't like you, you won't get hired and you won't get promoted. None of the successful lawyers and bankers I have met share your attitude.

    If your intelligence was high enough for you to get away with people disliking you, you would have got AAA and an Oxbridge degree without even trying.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Why do you want that much money? If it's just to prove yourself have you thought about other, more positive ways of doing that, e.g., participating in a sport? Money is great but too much causes problems just as too little does and there's always some ****er with a bigger yacht...

    Do you really want to work the long hours required in any field of law or investment banking (I have no idea whether investment bankers work long hours, my impression is that they don't work nearly as many hours as lawyers)?

    If not, maybe you need to explore other options and start using any contacts you have. Have you thought about insurance broking / underwriting? I've heard it can be quite lucrative, the hours aren't too bad, it's all about selling and a law degree is vaguely relevant...
    • 15 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Yes, they make my coffee.

    You need to understand that 90% of doing well in the city is whether people like you. It isn't some sort of ability rat-race, there are thousands of people who can be good lawyers and thousands of people who can make basic trades on a bank trading floor - its not that difficult. If people don't like you, you won't get hired and you won't get promoted. None of the successful lawyers and bankers I have met share your attitude.

    If your intelligence was high enough for you to get away with people disliking you, you would have got AAA and an Oxbridge degree without even trying.
    This.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    Yes, but you just said here has substance. And that is why I stop and listen to people who talk as you have just done here. And that is also why i must achieve something great to shut people up.

    But if you are just going to insult me and not say anything constructive then why should i react kindly to it?
    Lets use all that academic potential...read my post again, particularly the last line.
    That is constructive advice...
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bialetti)
    Why do you want that much money? If it's just to prove yourself have you thought about other, more positive ways of doing that, e.g., participating in a sport? Money is great but too much causes problems just as too little does and there's always some ****er with a bigger yacht...

    Do you really want to work the long hours required in any field of law or investment banking (I have no idea whether investment bankers work long hours, my impression is that they don't work nearly as many hours as lawyers)?

    If not, maybe you need to explore other options and start using any contacts you have. Have you thought about insurance broking / underwriting? I've heard it can be quite lucrative, the hours aren't too bad, it's all about selling and a law degree is vaguely relevant...
    i believe investment bankers work much longer hours than lawyers over the course of their career

    even on a day to day basis, 80-100hour weeks and working saturday +sunday morning arent uncommon i think
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    Nice try at the witty response but, the takeaway businesses have been in decline since the 2000's because of market saturation.

    I'm just saying that, unless you become a partner, the pay won't be great. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want. But if you're motivated by money then it is illogical to go for the profession. And the novelty of being known as a "lawyer" wears off rather quickly. And of course there is the billing targets and unpredictability of redundancies etc.

    But, I have not answered your main question yet. And my answer to that is that we are in the midst of a very troubled economy which makes everything ten times more difficult, if i knew the answer to that I would not be sat here typing away to you. But, I would much rather be failing at something I believe in rather than something I do half arsed.

    The problem with a lot of lawyers is the high self esteem they seem to hold themselves at. Sorry, but apart from the magic circle no one has a right to really be high and mighty about anything unless they are partners. The magic circle is a different kettle of fish altogether, I respect how good they are because they are genuinely finished product all rounders. However, the commonality with all general lawyers is that they work for very wealthy individuals and corporations, who are not... lawyers.
    Absolute gibberish. You really don't have the first clue about the legal profession do you?
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chalks)
    Absolute gibberish. You really don't have the first clue about the legal profession do you?
    No. But i will keep my preconceived and ignorant views thanks. Sorry that you feel so strongly in wanting to protect your fragile self esteem.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mirin?)
    No. But i will keep my preconceived and ignorant views thanks. Sorry that you feel so strongly in wanting to protect your fragile self esteem.
    My self-esteem is fine, thanks. Over the last dozen years or so, I've had a fascinating career through both private practice and in-house. I don't judge my self-worth by my pay packet or some laughable view that certain career paths are better or worse than others. The question I ask myself is "Do I find my role fulfilling, interesting and rewarding whilst enabling me to do the things I love outside of work?". If the answer is yes, then I'm happy. If the answer is no, then I need to move.

    You seem to have a view that a lawyer at a magic circle firm is somehow better than those at other similar firms. That, to my mind, demonstrates a naivety about the corporate legal profession. If you think an M&A partner at A&O is somehow "better" than his peers at, say, Herbert Smith, NR, Ashurst or some of the US firms then you're sadly mistaken. As for being "well-rounded", MC partners are often anything but. They tend to be uber-specialists, focussing on their narrow area of expertise and commanding high fees as a result.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    LOL@ people not recognising the OP troll.

    Anyways, for informational purposes...its worthwhile to look at the breakdown of potential earnings/savings. An after-tax take home based on an average of MC/SC salary.

    Year 1 (TC): 29,733
    Year 2 (TC): 29,733
    Year 3: 42,541
    Year 4: 46,111
    Year 5: 49,991
    Year 6: 56,671

    It wouldn't be unreasonable to have north of 100k saved at this point...and you'd only be 28-30. Not too bad at all. One thing to take note (which is not included in the above) is a bonus. Most of the SC/MC have a %15-%40 bonus (ranges heavily based on firm) based on hours billed and 'business development'. They are usually fixed bonuses on a lockstep.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by adam0311)
    LOL@ people not recognising the OP troll.

    Anyways, for informational purposes...its worthwhile to look at the breakdown of potential earnings/savings. An after-tax take home based on an average of MC/SC salary.

    Year 1 (TC): 29,733
    Year 2 (TC): 29,733
    Year 3: 42,541
    Year 4: 46,111
    Year 5: 49,991
    Year 6: 56,671

    It wouldn't be unreasonable to have north of 100k saved at this point...and you'd only be 28-30. Not too bad at all. One thing to take note (which is not included in the above) is a bonus. Most of the SC/MC have a %15-%40 bonus (ranges heavily based on firm) based on hours billed and 'business development'. They are usually fixed bonuses on a lockstep.
    That's misinformation.

    A&O is an MC...(not 'average' though there is no such thing as 'average') as it pays above SC and some of the MC firms. It doesn't quite live up to any of those figures after tax.
    http://listentotaxman.com/index.php

    Secondly, bonuses are nowhere near as high as you think they are. The 40% bonus isn't going to happen. Maybe in researching this figure you looked at the maximum possible bonus (i.e. not happening) for CC. Probably closer to 5% for most (if that) judging by associates I know there and elsewhere. You'd be very lucky for 10% as a junior.

    You're also way overestimated with the 'north of 100k' figure. The salaries are lower than that. You're not taking into account of costs in London which utterly destroy the salary. Basic living costs for a professional can go over 25-30k a year - at least over 20k. You're not going to be a student anymore. You'll realise you won't want to live in a run down squat in London with 100 other people when you come home after working a 14 hour day. Go look on ROF accommodation offered etc. you'll see most people are renting for £210+ a week living in/sharing a 1-3 bed nice flat in a nice area. Also if your blackberry/iphone goes off, you'll be expected to be in the office within the hour - so you have to be close to the City and you'll want to be as close as possible to save on the commute which means higher prices. And then you've got bills which, as a first year student, you've never had to pay, but council tax, water, gas, electricity - it adds up. Transport is another expense; over 1k. Holidays; expensive. Trust me, it adds up.

    You're also not taking into account repayment of student loans. You're also not taking into account the LPC year which even with a grant from the firm is (well, it very often is) still a loss making and non earning year unless you're working all the time outside the LPC or you're on the accelerated.

    It's a decent salary and any lawyer would be comfortable on it, you'll never have to worry about money unless you really overspend. Sure, sometimes at the end of the month if you've been spending heavily or you've got high fixed costs like rent or a mortgage, you'll struggle a bit. Generally though you'll have savings and you'll have a nice bank balance.

    I *think* the attitude that the money is so good in law you'll have loads of savings within no time is a silly one. It's a good middle class job which allows you to live a good middle class existence. There are many, many other jobs which pay in the same region after tax. You can make more money if you get seconded to Dubai...
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    You guys may find this useful...

    http://www.lex100.com/index.php/surv...ry-information

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: January 4, 2013
New on TSR

Submitting your UCAS application

How long did it take for yours to be processed?

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.